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Thread: HowTo: Manage an Economy

  1. #1
    Kalis's Avatar Civis
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    Default HowTo: Manage an Economy

    It seems most people don't really know how to build and maintain an economy in MTW2, so I thought I'd write this post
    I'll split it into 2 sections:
    1. Rules to Follow
    2. Explanation (to those who are interested).

    Rules to Follow:
    1. Minimize your army. Army upkeep is the number 1 killer of economy. This is especially critical early-game, when your economy is low. What you do in the first 10-15 turns completely affects your economy for the next 30-40.

    2. Choose settles to be military trainers, and focus them on building military buildings, but only after all you built the following:
    dirt road, land clearance, grain exchange, communal farming, port (market if you have the time, or just wait and market later).
    Whenever your town upgrades and you get the option to make roads, build them. Roads are always worth it because they increase trade and resources, and lets your armies move faster to their destination.

    3. The rest of your towns should be economic builders, where all economic buildings below 3200 in cost should be built.
    Priority should be given to roads (trade + resources), then farms (farming output), then merchant wharfs (trade), then ports (resources), and finally the market (resources).

    4. Town halls / council halls are an absolute must. They drop squalor and increase happiness, letting you maintain higher tax rates and increasing population growth too. Fit them in as soon as you can!

    5. Early on, you should always set tax at the maximum level possible. The ideal is yellow happiness (they only have a chance of revolt starting at blue), not green. However, cities you capture later that have low population should have their tax set at normal or low. You need them to grow to benefit from the trade income!

    6. Minimize your number of castles, and place castles close to the front, but not right on the front. Castles have no militia, so maintaining an army to defend them is very expensive (800-900 upkeep) Plus, they have very little trade income (lacking merchant wharfs, merchant buildings, and the ability to change your tax rate). Plus, the castle upgrade costs 2400! The reinforced wooden wall upgrade costs 800.

    7. Garrison your settles with free upkeep units. If that settle can only upkeep town militia rather than spear militia, then garrison it with town militia. 0 upkeep vs 300 upkeep/town has a huge impact on your economy..

    Using frontline cities with castles in support:
    Let's say your frontline city has 2 spear militia, 2 archers/crossbow militia. Your castle should be close enough so that cavalry can march to the settle in 1 turn.
    When you see the enemy coming, it's easy to instantly train 3 cavalry at the nearby castle, and train an additional 3 units here to have an instant army, and you began with 0 upkeep, rather than having to maintain an army that had a base upkeep of 800 or more!

    Example 1: Holy Roman Empire


    16228 income, 8753 expenses (subtracting construction).
    Yes I blitzed here since it's turn 11. But I didn't sack a single settlement. I occupied every one, and I was focused on building land clearances, grain exchanges, roads, and converting to cities (so I would only have 2 castles, rather than 4-5). In fact, I'm still training town militia at every settlement but 1. But considering my economy, that's going to change very soon.

    Example 2: Egypt


    Antioch, aleppo, and adana were very recent conquests.
    I spent 7725 on recruiting troops (dropping my income), and 10416 on construction last turn, and I had another 10000 to spend this turn.

    But look at my main cities, and their incomes:
    Cairo 2850 (population above 20K), Jerusalem 2577 (pop above 20K), Alexandria 2198, Dongola 1834, Damascus 1999.
    Jedda only has 4000 or so population but is still generating 1071.

    Gaze and Acre (both citadels, so above 15K pop) are generating measly amounts despite huge populations: 1542 and 1399.
    I have these 2 castles because I needed trainers for mamluk archers (didn't have sultan's racing track in cities), and I needed 2 trainers beside Jerusalem's to bring reinforcements every turn. With these 2, I was able to train and send 6 mamluk archers/turn to support Jerusalem, lifting the siege every turn, which then let me train/re-train 3 units in Jerusalem itself every turn.


    Explanation:
    Income has 3 primary factors in it: tax, trade, and farming.
    Tax and trade are both affected by population. For example, trade income booms with lots of population (say over 20000), but sucks when the population is low. Farming income is pretty much the exact same regardless.

    So early-game, where population is low, farming and tax are the primary sources of income. But as cities grow, trade income rises steadily, and is your main income boost.

    This means early farm buildings are critical. They boost your income early on, and they increase your population growth (increasing tax and trade income). The earlier you build them, the better! In fact, I try to get crop rotation (the 3rd level building) at every settlement as soon as I can.

    There are 5 major economic buildings: Farms, Roads, merchant wharfs, ports and markets.
    Every upgrade of the same type provides roughly same income boost. So a grain exchange that costs 600 provides the same income boost as a great market which costs 4800.
    As a result, early buildings are always worth building, but buildings beyond 3200 in cost are generally too expensive to be worthwhile (unless you're earning 15K+/turn, so you have lots of money to throw around).

    For example... let's say every market building increases income by 100. Grain exchange? Paid itself off in 6 turns (great!) Market in 12 (good). Bazaar in 24 (acceptable), great bazaar in 48 turns (subpar), and the grand bazaar in 96 turns (basically never pays itself off).
    Last edited by Kalis; December 27, 2006 at 11:54 PM.

  2. #2
    Tiro
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    Default Re: HowTo: Manage an Economy

    An interesting treatise.

    Perhaps you could reduce the size of the pictures, since they expand the page, making it hard to read. As we go along, I'd also like to see you expand and elaborate upon the subject to form a more comprehensive document.

    I do agree with almost all of your points, and I'd like to add:

    Income has 3 primary factors in it: tax, trade, and farming, but their weightage within your financial statements vary depending on your geographical locale. As the Byzantine empire, for example, my tax and trade incomes were about equally high, while farming was low down on the list. I would speculate that as a more landlocked power, your tax and farming incomes would be significantly higher than your trade income. This would affect your construction focus. As a seapower, you could concentrate more on port and wharf facilities, whereas as a land power, you would not.

    Another thing I would like to point out is that minimising your army costs at the outset might not be a good idea. I'm sure we can all recall the title of the game: Total War. While army upkeep tends to be the biggest damper on the economy, the army is also the only thing between you and a grisly death by the sword. A large army can also expand your territories, netting you more income, not to mention the boost to your treasury from a sack. Therefore, a player would need to balance between running his economy into the ground with huge armies, and having too few troops.
    "There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance--that principle is contempt prior to investigation."
    -Herbert Spencer

  3. #3
    Civis
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    Default Re: HowTo: Manage an Economy

    Kalis, BRILLIANT thread mate.
    Thank you very much for the run down. For me, this game is all about economics. I prefer expanding my income and what not rather than being at war. Economics is the most over looked aspect of this game, in my opinion.
    With my Eqypt game I only have two proper armies set up. One to defend The West from Sicily (who naval invaded North Africa) and another army in the North, taking as many rebel settlements as possible. I don't need more than two armies because of my location. I keep the Turks happy so I'm expecting them to maintain my ally for a long time (?) so I've only got two fronts to fight on...and the Western front is VERY easy to defend.
    I'm making a fortune with my Northern army sacking rebel town after rebel town. My economy is booming. The way I see it, if my army isn't earning me money then I disband it. Besides, in an emergancy it only takes one turn to produce an army in dire situations.
    Lots of land + minimal armed forces = $$$
    It really is a no brainer.
    Last edited by SOE digital; December 28, 2006 at 12:02 AM.
    AVOID EMPIRE TW LIKE THE PLAGUE
    SAVE YOUR MONEY, BUY SOMETHING BETTER


  4. #4
    Kalis's Avatar Civis
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    Default Re: HowTo: Manage an Economy

    sized them down a bit. Hope that helps tritio.
    Sorry about that. Big monitor = big screenshots.

    Landlocked powers:
    The only one is the HRE, but they begin with lots of settles to make up for it. Everyone else pretty much have most of their settles with ports.
    In any case, any landlocked settlement is generally unable to econ properly (due to scaling cost of buildings), so you'd be better off turning those settlements into trainers.
    And what you miss out on is the extra resources from ports, and extra trade from merchant's wharf. As long as you build roads and markets and farms, your income from trade will still be decent.

    About early-game (and minimal military):
    well, the general idea is to take all those units you start off with (and can't upkeep), and attack. If you don't want to blitz at all, disband. Fill the garrisons with a few town militia instead (which can be upkeeped for free). Eventually, you'll want to replace these garrisons with spear militia, but only when you can upkeep them for free.

    Think this way. You spend the first 20 turns upkeeping 15 units (assuming average upkeep of 150 due to 125 for spears combined with 250 upkeep knights). That's 45,000 gold spent upkeeping. Meanwhile, I disbanded the first turn, slowly retrained them as town militia, and don't train unless I need the units. Even factoring in recruiting cost and everything, I probably have a good 30,000 extra gold I spent on economy that you didn't have.

    And if you build watch towers like crazy (the way I do - look at the pics, there are watchtowers everywhere! I have no fog of war in my territory and I see into the frontiers of my enemy), you get an early-warning system to know when you're about to be attacked, and should train units.

    On a side note, I've never been attacked in the first 30 turns or so. I suspect it's because I give generous deals to others (making them like me more), and don't sack towns (so relationship with other factions is always good). I'm almost never the one to declare a war either (I just finish them off permanently when they attack me). Good relationship = no attack.

    In any case, you only need 1, or at most 2 armies on the field early on. And these armies only need 6-8 units each:
    Italians factions: 4-5 Italian spear militia, 1-2 knights or light cavalry, and a general.
    Spain/Portugal: 5-6 jinetes (with blacksmith armour), 2 spear militia, general
    Other Catholics: 1-3 mercenary spearmen, 1-2 archers/crossbows, 2 knights.
    And put such an army on the defense (with 2-3 extra spearmen militia, or 2 spears with 2 archer/crossbow militia), and you got an army that would beat any the AI would use.
    Note that all these armies I listed either use mercenaries (can hire them anywhere instantly), or take around 1-2 turns to train up. Disband when unnecessary, train when necessary.


    Take the Egypt game for example. On my southern frontier I have these are the armies:
    Alexandria - large stone wall supporting 2 archer militia, 3 saracen militia.
    Cairo - huge stone wall supporting 2 archer militia, 4 saracen militia. Also keep 2-3 mamluk archers here to kill off brigands (and retrain them here after every battle since I have a sultan's racing track here. Early on, I used to have to march over to Gaza to retrain).
    Dongola: 3 archer militia (they never even came close to this settle).
    Jedda: 2 archer militia (Far back and safe).

    The one time I saw sicily walk into my lands, I had both alexandria and cairio train, for a total of 5 saracen militia. Then I gathered most of the troops (leaving 1 saracen militia in each city) and attacked.

    4 archer militia , 10 saracen militia, and 3 mamluk archers easily defeated the army they sent against me. Battle losses killed off a lot of saracen militia. I had to upkeep them for 2-3 turns (when I marched out to attack). But as soon as i walked back home, 0 upkeep again

    Militia are awesome because they're basically 0 upkeep troops. If your faction gets good militia like italian spear militia, saracen militia, or pike militia (later on), you got a huge advantage.
    Unlike factions like England who rely on castle units (longbows), having strong militia means you don't even need to maintain a standing army beyond a few cavalry units!
    Anytime you want to attack? Train a few cavalry, grab some frontal militia (be sure to re-train them), and attack!
    In fact, considering how stupid the AI is, you can do this with any faction (just use spear militia with blacksmith for 2 armour). It's just 2 armour isn't anywhere as good as 4 or 5.
    Last edited by Kalis; December 28, 2006 at 12:49 AM.

  5. #5

    Default Re: HowTo: Manage an Economy

    great post and well represented economical part of the game =)
    i usually never have problem with my economy and have more money then i need... sure i blitz many times and so...(by the way what is wrong with blitzing?)
    anyway, i think that for economy of your state is also important WAGES which is actually amount of money payed to your generals.when do generals pay themselves off? - not every general is worth money you pay him ... you have to find the best managers and put them into cities and the onse that make you lose income in cities are ther onse you send to war. I find this quite important in managing your empire's cash flow. please check screenshots and see what a lot of money is actually spend on them! - you spend for wages half of what you use for army support!!

    however, i try to use all what i can against my anemies - also economy:
    1. try which generals make higher income in your citiy and most of your generals will go fighting anemies insted of making you lose income
    2. you can blockate ports and as far as i know you gain some extra money out of it.
    3. if you do not wish to finish your anemies off and you want just to take 1 region of him before ceasefire i suggest it is city with water open water - naval trading is great for trading and making good income
    4. if you want to destroy anemy faction, then just take castles first and you will have more army, ut the anemy will have less and even his income wont save him then against your well trained army and you will have near source of good armies and you can then take cities and will spend a lot less time concoring and fighting anemy which means you will have a lot of armies for shorter time then you need.
    5. use spies to open gates so you can attack as soon as you get to the city you are attacking and this will ensure you dont wait for turn or 2 with your army doing nothing.
    Sitarus Originalus Pontifex Maximus -30+
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    also known as original-30+
    Slovenci kremeniti!

  6. #6

    Default Re: HowTo: Manage an Economy

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalis View Post
    sized them down a bit. Hope that helps tritio.

    Take the Egypt game for example. On my southern frontier I have these are the armies:
    Alexandria - large stone wall supporting 2 archer militia, 3 saracen militia.
    Cairo - huge stone wall supporting 2 archer militia, 4 saracen militia. Also keep 2-3 mamluk archers here to kill off brigands (and retrain them here after every battle since I have a sultan's racing track here. Early on, I used to have to march over to Gaza to retrain).
    Dongola: 3 archer militia (they never even came close to this settle).
    Jedda: 2 archer militia (Far back and safe).

    The one time I saw sicily walk into my lands, I had both alexandria and cairio train, for a total of 5 saracen militia. Then I gathered most of the troops (leaving 1 saracen militia in each city) and attacked.

    4 archer militia , 10 saracen militia, and 3 mamluk archers easily defeated the army they sent against me. Battle losses killed off a lot of saracen militia. I had to upkeep them for 2-3 turns (when I marched out to attack). But as soon as i walked back home, 0 upkeep again

    Militia are awesome because they're basically 0 upkeep troops. If your faction gets good militia like italian spear militia, saracen militia, or pike militia (later on), you got a huge advantage.
    Unlike factions like England who rely on castle units (longbows), having strong militia means you don't even need to maintain a standing army beyond a few cavalry units!
    Anytime you want to attack? Train a few cavalry, grab some frontal militia (be sure to re-train them), and attack!
    In fact, considering how stupid the AI is, you can do this with any faction (just use spear militia with blacksmith for 2 armour). It's just 2 armour isn't anywhere as good as 4 or 5.


    Are saracen militia 0 upkeep units when in the city?

    I need to switch them out, currently I have like....Spear militia :s

    When i open up my egypt game i gotta re-do all my garrisons.

    My main problem right now is the unrest im facing up in Aleppo and Damascus, Im in a full on war with the Turks (Waited until 60 turns into the game to attack them) And its difficult. Their damn spies are making it really hard for me to move forward and take more settlements.

  7. #7
    Kalis's Avatar Civis
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    Default Re: HowTo: Manage an Economy

    Favre:
    Yes saracen militia are free upkeep once you get the building up (or have a large stone wall).

    And to deal with spies, just put a high level spy in your own settlement. It'll reduces their chance of success to 20-50% or so. Sooner or later their spies are gonna get caught, and killed

  8. #8

    Default Re: HowTo: Manage an Economy

    Does the 20-50% work on every turn?

    Because I got one spy up to 9/10 Eyes for subterfuge and stuck him in Damascus after Damascus had gotten infiltrated. So far he has been sitting there around 10 turns and hasn't been able to catch the enemy spy yet. Meanwhile, Sent 7 assassins to go meet the Turkish leaders....This is kind of a waste on my economy but I might as well use them instead of disbanding them

    EDIT: Another Question, In Alexandria it starts with a 3 free militia upkeep. In Cairo it starts with 4, In Cairo all of my militia units say "Free upkeep when garrisoned" But my militia in Alexandria do not say this. Does it still count in alexandria?
    Last edited by Favre; December 29, 2006 at 12:38 AM.

  9. #9

    Default Re: HowTo: Manage an Economy

    I sort of have an opposite economical problem. Everything works out nice unit the midgame, I can make money and spend that much on building and army that I usually have about 1000 florins left at the end of the turn. But suddenly in midgame my income skyrockets and I can not keep up with raising armies. It happens in a very short period of time and I have no idea what causes it (not sacking, not razing, actully hardy expanding at all), granted I build more economical buildings and stuff, my cities become bigger and bigger but what puzzles me is the insane short amount of time in which it happens. Even if I hire all mercs available, build forts everywhere and build a huge fleet as soon as possible I still make too much money (more than 50k :hmmm:is bad).

  10. #10

    Default Re: HowTo: Manage an Economy

    This always happens to me aswell, but as soon as I get into a fight with the Turks It drops from 60k down to bankrupt in about 10 turns.

  11. #11

    Default Re: HowTo: Manage an Economy

    I've noticed that trade rights boost my economy enormously.
    I've played Milan a few times, and i realised how bad war could be for my economy.
    I think that my trade rights with france alone could net me like 20K profit a turn. I know it seems impossible or too high, but i had like 30K profit each turn, until france blockaded one of my ports (entering war and breaking the trade treaty) and even if i did not build troops or ships, and i did not let them blockade my ports more than one turn, my economy soon begun to crumble.
    Did anyone managed to find out how trade rights could impact economy and what mechanisms where used ?

  12. #12

    Default Re: HowTo: Manage an Economy

    I think this should be a sticky or something this is a really good and useful thread
    A true warrior is to be always single-minded with one object in view: to fight, looking neither backward nor sidewise. To go straight forward in order to crush the enemy is all that is necessary for him.

  13. #13

    Default Re: HowTo: Manage an Economy

    A great thread, wanted to pose a question tho for anyone:

    Curious what most people use as far as agents over the course of a full campaign; i.e. How many spies/assassins/preist/diplo's you normally utilize as the game progresses. I feel I'am not getting nearly enough use out of these units other then the obvious infiltration by spies to help unlock the gates and Diplomats for trade rights. Normally I find myself with 1 Assasin/2-3 spies going at a time. Essentially looking for any tips here to help best utilize these units. I think i've got the merchants down pat btw, a wonderful resource!

  14. #14
    Commander_Vimes's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: HowTo: Manage an Economy

    Quote Originally Posted by SOE digital View Post
    Kalis, BRILLIANT thread mate.
    Thank you very much for the run down. For me, this game is all about economics. I prefer expanding my income and what not rather than being at war. Economics is the most over looked aspect of this game, in my opinion.
    With my Eqypt game I only have two proper armies set up. One to defend The West from Sicily (who naval invaded North Africa) and another army in the North, taking as many rebel settlements as possible. I don't need more than two armies because of my location. I keep the Turks happy so I'm expecting them to maintain my ally for a long time (?) so I've only got two fronts to fight on...and the Western front is VERY easy to defend.
    I'm making a fortune with my Northern army sacking rebel town after rebel town. My economy is booming. The way I see it, if my army isn't earning me money then I disband it. Besides, in an emergancy it only takes one turn to produce an army in dire situations.
    Lots of land + minimal armed forces = $$$
    It really is a no brainer.
    Just wathc out for the mongols and the timuraids(or whatever they are called otherwise they will come round the back and u will have nothing to defend with

  15. #15

    Default Re: HowTo: Manage an Economy

    ill just point out that most trade buildings become a waste in later game.. when you making 4500 outta the city in taxes and another thousand from farming and trade combined.

    secondly and with great grief.... land locked settlements make more from trade.

  16. #16
    johnny76's Avatar Civis
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    Default Re: HowTo: Manage an Economy

    Well done. I am doing well in the campaign I am in now. However, I am going to employ some of your tatics my next go round. Eventhough the name of the game is total war, it is fun when you can implement other strategies of total government. I beleive so, anyway. Anyhow, great strategy.

    Johnny76


    Member of S.I.N.

  17. #17

    Default Re: HowTo: Manage an Economy

    I've found this threat to be incredibly useful! I rather enjoy the economic aspect of this game. I spend way too much time micro-managing my settlements before each turn, but I still find it so much fun. If any of you have ever played Civilization 4 you know its an intriguing game with way too much boredom implemented into its system! Total War expertly rectifies that problem by providing a very entertaining battle system with elaborate but not overkill management of settlements. Thanks again for these great economic tips, I'm sure my micro-managing will become much more efficient.

  18. #18

    Default Re: HowTo: Manage an Economy

    Nice thread! Really cool!

  19. #19

    Default Re: HowTo: Manage an Economy

    Do rebel armies on a road decrease trade income or is this just a graphic effect on the campaign map?

  20. #20
    Echbart's Avatar Decanus
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    Default Re: HowTo: Manage an Economy

    I have one question - how the merchants work?

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