EB or EB II?

[Turek]

After ten years or so, I've returned to the mod that blew my mind back in the days. To my pleasant surprise, I noticed that Europa Barbarorum is alive and well with a thriving community. Now I'm itching to start playing, but I'm unsure which version I should get - EB for RTW or EB II for MTWII?

I assume there are some advantages in EB II since it uses the newer MTWII engine, but are there other things to take into consideration?

[Morrowgan]

New factions, more detailed and less ahistorical units, more faction-specific scripts and buildings, new city models on campaign and battle maps, overhauled voice mod and much more.

[Revan The Great]

Try both! That said...

EB II has more factions, and more nuanced things like 'missions' and 'events' to give different nations more flavor. There's also a more complex system of governments, recruitment, and buildings. Another thing I like is that you have access to more or less your full array of troops from the start. So for example if you're playing a Hellenic faction you can recruit royal guards (Hypaspistai, etc.) from the start. I don't like having to play half the game before you can field a 'historical' army with a mix of elite and regular troops, so that's a big plus for me. Medieval II lets the developers balance this through limiting replenishment of those elite units, in ways you couldn't in EB I. That, combined with the other Medieval II improvements over Rome make EB II the more preferred title (IMO).

Also something to consider is that the starting position of EB II may be a little different than what you're used to. For example, Carthage only has a single province in Spain. In Greece, Pyrrhus has just embarked on his Sparta misadventure and though he occupies Taras and Pella, he stands to lose both of those within two turns. Macedonia consequently doesn't hold Pella, and needs to 'reconquer' their kingdom and follow an event chain of re-establishing their authority in Macedonia.

[Genghis Skahn]

EBII is a fairly different beast from EB. For one, not every single one of your neighbors will attack you recklessly like in RTW--diplomacy still sucks, but it's WAY better than in RTW. I still prefer EBI's battles because the RTW engine's battles are generally better than M2TW(especially M2TW's literally cancerous siege battles). EBII also tries to be more historically accurate than it's predecessor(for example, see the differences between the Celts in EBI and EBII).

I'd suggest giving EBII a try, at the least. It's different enough from the original EB that there's a new experience to be gained by playing it, not just the nostalgia value. For example, as Revan pointed out, certain factions have scripted missions--a concept which wasn't really possible for EB1. There's also more scripted events in general. In the next version, there will be an entire script dedicated to the Central Asian migrations which occurred during EB's timeframe--eventually that will even mean hunnic invasion, once they get made.

[LusitanianWolf]

EB I is an incredible work of art, and I have great memories from it, but I feel that by now EBII have largely surpassed it in most - if not all - fields.

I haven't played the most recent release from EBI thought and it might be a matter of taste (there are a few things that the RTW engine does better), so if you can, try both, if you can't... go with EB2, i really doubt you will be disappointed!

PS:
Personally I do really like the way governments and colonies are implemented in EB2 and the way they combined with culture % (religion in vanilla M2TW) and faction specific reforms impact recruitment and development overall. Check out EB2's player's guide, it'll give you an idea.
L
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...-for-EB-II-2-3

In the other hand EB1 might be somewhat better in terms of battle fluidity, and siege battles have a few annoying issues in EB2.

[Revan The Great]

EBII is a fairly different beast from EB. For one, not every single one of your neighbors will attack you recklessly like in RTW--diplomacy still sucks, but it's WAY better than in RTW. I still prefer EBI's battles because the RTW engine's battles are generally better than M2TW(especially M2TW's literally cancerous siege battles).

That is one thing.

I don't know if it's just selective memory on my part, but battles seemed to go much more smoothly in Rome 1. In my EB 2 games, a lot of times the AI just sends stuff everywhere, or deploys awkwardly, and the battles can become a big, incoherent mess.

[LusitanianWolf]

That is one thing.

I don't know if it's just selective memory on my part, but battles seemed to go much more smoothly in Rome 1. In my EB 2 games, a lot of times the AI just sends stuff everywhere, or deploys awkwardly, and the battles can become a big, incoherent mess.

Yes sometimes it does that but is also much better with flanking manoeuvres, skirmishing and exploiting terrain, iirc EB1's battle AI didn't do much more than head on charges usually killing its own general in the few minutes of battle.

[Baharr]

EBII is also, I feel it ought to be said, a somewhat slower and more deliberate game than EBI.

Partially because it has more depth and more stuff for you to do that isn't constant warfare, and partially because the recruitment pool system and improved campaign AI stop the world from devolving into Endless Genocide Simulator after you hit the 200-300 turn mark, like it tends to do in EBI (shout-out to anyone who remembers the Big Gray Blob, its alternative-universe self, the Big Yellow Blob, and their endless stacks upon stacks upon stacks).

[Turek]

Wow I got a ton of information from the replies here guys, thanks! You've really helped me out here, now I can start playing right away.

At the moment I think I'm going to go with EB II. I'd love to play both, but unfortunately time is a limited resource (and I have to leave some for my Stainless Steel campaign too!). I'll definitely try EB I in the future though when I have more time.

TW games and all the amazing mods here on TWCenter were such important things to me when I was younger. It's great to be back.

[LusitanianWolf]

EBII is also, I feel it ought to be said, a somewhat slower and more deliberate game than EBI.

Partially because it has more depth and more stuff for you to do that isn't constant warfare, and partially because the recruitment pool system and improved campaign AI stop the world from devolving into Endless Genocide Simulator after you hit the 200-300 turn mark, like it tends to do in EBI (shout-out to anyone who remembers the Big Gray Blob, its alternative-universe self, the Big Yellow Blob, and their endless stacks upon stacks upon stacks).

The cursed Grey Death and the damned Yellow Fever...
I still do have nightmares with that
I gave up many late campaigns out of boredom of having to fight several battles against the same type of army every single turn.
EB2 is quite more balanced in that sense.

[Jurand of Cracow]

At the moment I think I'm going to go with EB II. I'd love to play both, but unfortunately time is a limited resource (and I have to leave some for my Stainless Steel campaign too!). I'll definitely try EB I in the future though when I have more time.

I've produced this year a few reviews on the other mods - see here.

I gave up many late campaigns out of boredom of having to fight several battles against the same time of army every single turn

Indeed. I prefer mods that make you fight fewer battles - then they're more decisive in this sense. In this respect - as I've already described it here - I think that gameplaywise there're slightly to many units and too few loses in the EBII.

[Septentrionalis]

Eb2 is amazing, and I would recommend that instead playing EB1 which you have tried before anyway.

Just be sure to allow it to use 4 gb of memory especially if you plan on playing with huge unit sizes, or you will be experiencing game-wrecking crashes to desktop. There might be a patch (albeit illegal) for that too, but I changed the memory use manually using CFF Explorer. It changed the game from I-am-giving-this-up into a flawless experience for me.

Edit: do not use a patch since modifying the executable is an infringement of CA's copyright.

[Chikiflin]

I prefer EB II all the way. Although there're some annoying issues specially during battles, and I remember EBI being smoother in that respect, EBII is better in every other sense. For me there're two core reasons that make me love this mod so much over EBI: improved campaign AI and diplomacy, and not having to fight zillions of full stacks from certain superpower factions on the medium-late campaign. Summary: EBII is better graphically, gameplay wise, and has an AI (specially on the campaign map) that makes "reasonable" moves 60% of the time (more or less). Hope this helps, regards.

[azayrahmad]

I went back playing EB I after a long time playing EB II. These are differences that I noticed, other than the ones already mentioned here:

• I still like ethnic, brown themed EB I interface better than current EB II, it seems too much like Vanilla RTW. EB II encyclopedia font looks better in print but honestly harder to read onscreen than EB I/RTW font, and in the mod where you will spend half the time reading, it matters.
• You have to click Show Me How button to run script in EB I every time you start/load a game. It bugs me for some reason. Thank God you don't have to do it anymore in EB II.
• After playing EB II battles, EB I feels like Clone Wars with all its cloned soldiers. Along with many other subtle graphical upgrades thanks to M2TW engine, it really adds to the epic atmosphere on the battlefield.
• Some formation unique to RTW (testudo, parthian shot) is not implemented in EB II. Not that I use it often anyway.

[Jurand of Cracow]

One more thing that's not been mentioned here yet: forts are disabled in the EBII.
I used to make "strategic fortifications" in places where I'd expect AI to move its armies. It added to the difficulty for the AI to such an extent that it was barely able to counterattack. Thanks God (or QS) that it's been removed.

[Wulfburk]

I liked forts. I used them just for roleplay, keeping only my main stacks inside forts, as in winter camping, but never fighting inside it. When war started in the region of that stack i marched out of the camp always.

[Lusitanio]

Yeah, I liked the forts too, in EBI I always used them to put my troops and armies to reinforce attacking armies or guard regions, I think it would add some more to EBII but I understand why they choose to remove them.
Anyway, the max turns I played in EBI for a faction was something like 200 while for EBII I have played more than 400 turns and I'm not bored.

[tentaku]

Imma be the third guy in a row to lament about forts. I liked to put a fort in the middle of several provinces and guard them, since army from one of those provinces cannnot reach another in one turn. I also like to put fort between provinces so when I move armies between provinces, they do not rebel in the middle of their journey.

[Lusitanio]

Yeah, forts were good... But seeing how the AI couldn't handle them it seems better to remove them...
The only thing I could ask would be to add some more forts around the campaign map, that's it

[Wulfburk]

well i totally disliked the permanent forts in eb2. BUT player temporally forts like in vanilla are cool to use imo