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Thread: Notification of Stolen Mod Assets.

  1. #1

    Default Notification of Stolen Mod Assets.

    I am posting this so that there is a record that the Ancient Empire team has been notified of the following action. As of August 9th, and several test versions of their mod, the following has not been enacted upon by the mod creators in this forum. The following message has been sent to the Total War Center Admins:





    "Hello, my name is Celticus (The Gravemind on TWCenter) and I would like to report my mod content stolen by one of the mods hosted on this site. The mod in question is Ancient Empires for the game Total War: Attila


    TWCenter Hosting here: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?2095-Ancient-Empires-(AE)


    Steam Mod here: https://steamcommunity.com/workshop/filedetails/?id=1385069240


    Mod Leader: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/member.php?33459-UMCenturion


    I will try to type out as much information as possible that I have been able to record.


    On July 29th, I was informed by a user of their mod that my assets were in the current build of their mod posted July 28th:

    Mod Build List: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?785210-1-0-3g-Non-Steam-download-links-(updated-Aug-5)

    On August 2nd I was able to talk to UMC Centurion about the assets and told him that he and his mod team could not use my assets that he had already included in the game. The permissions were hazy as he had taken them from Divide et Impera and was unaware he was not allowed to take them all.


    This was our conversation: https://i.imgur.com/KzDQmyu.png

    At this point he had only asked me about the True Legions submod content and had made no inquiries into other assets.

    Today on August 9th, 2018, I personally downloaded the mod to check if my content was removed. I found all of the True Legions content in the mod still with their latest build being posted on August 5th. While I checked it, I noticed that they had numerous other assets from an entirely separate mod of mine called Rome II HD (Mod here: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1217341916 )


    The mod had been imported to Total War Attila from Rome II and had be mixed in with their mod content. Album of just some of the items they took (too many to list in one sitting):


    Album of Examples of My Content: https://imgur.com/a/ZEUI0w8


    I checked and I had received no request for permission nor any credits on their credits list here: https://imgur.com/a/1l2iQXj


    I checked their patch notes and see on their Steam Pack #2 here: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1381536100


    It states that new textures were added on July 14th. Picture here: https://i.imgur.com/3il0Bgp.png


    I asked UMC Centurion in their Slack channel how my assets had been added to the mod and unfortunately I was unable to capture screenshots in time, and as of the time of sending this message I was informed the entire conversation was deleted. Team Member Petellius told my friend the following: https://i.imgur.com/YzCdFXv.png


    In the conversation, UMCenturions response was to the best of my memory:

    UMCenturion - “I am removing your assets and am sorry for the confusion. I was told by one of our testers that we had permission to use these assets. I did not know they were yours.”
    When I asked to speak to this tester to find out why a third party was telling people they could use my assets, he refused to tell me.

    I value and wish that modders would openly share resources but I also feel that modders should have and do have the right to control where their mod content is used. I believe the Ancient Empires team and mod lead have knowingly used my assets for the last month and have proceeded to be deceitful in my investigation into why they were used with no credit at all.


    I would like the admin staff here to investigate this as I feel a mod is now being hosted on the site that openly steals others content and seems to think they are above the rules.


    Thank you for your time,

    Celticus (The Gravemind)."





    A week has passed since I originally asked for my content to be removed and no action has been taken thus far. I wish that modder's in this community could have the decency to respect one another and even if permission was never asked, have the sense to credit the original owners. Realize that it is a privilege that your team already uses so many assets of other modders and that your treatment of them is paramount.

    Thank you for your time,

    Celticus

  2. #2
    isa0005's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: Notification of Stolen Mod Assets.

    Do better AE team, stuff like this shouldn't be happening and frankly I'm both very surprised and disappointed, the team should know better! I stand with you The Gravemind!

  3. #3

    Default Re: Notification of Stolen Mod Assets.

    Give credit where credit is due. Pretty silly that you can't type a sentence to credit someone for their work that you are using.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Notification of Stolen Mod Assets.

    Very unprofessional. Sad to see such treachery towards a fellow modder . Everybody does their part pitching in talent to the modding scene, and credit must be given where it is due!
    "What? Men dodging this way for single bullets? What will you do when they open fire along the whole line? I am ashamed of you. They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance. " - John Sedgewick, Union General, his last words before being killed by a sniper.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Notification of Stolen Mod Assets.



    Sheridan here. Also known as Philip on Steam. Member of AE dating back 4 years. My chiming in on this subject.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Gravemind View Post

    I will try to type out as much information as possible that I have been able to record.

    Let me stop you right there. The information you provided is not what you were able to record. Last night (August 9th), a discussion on the Ancient Empire's team private slack was conducted between you and concerned parties. You have full access to the conversation but chose not to represent it here. Conversation in the spoiler below.

    Spoiler for August, 9th 2018. Full Conversation on Slack
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    Truth is not an arbitrarily defined slice of narrative. This conversation dates back to last night (CEST).

    I asked UMC Centurion in their Slack channel how my assets had been added to the mod and unfortunately I was unable to capture screenshots in time, and as of the time of sending this message I was informed the entire conversation was deleted. Team Member Petellius told my friend the following: https://i.imgur.com/YzCdFXv.png
    What piece of conversation are you referring to? A private conversation? Between which two parties? Why is no context given, but merely Petellius' unplaced reply? Nothing from the public conversation posted in the spoilers above was deleted. The only conclusion one can draw from that is that you are suggesting a different conversation alltogether.

    It is regretful that assets were used without your permission, but implying deceit and ill intent is a grave misrepresentation as much as it is an attempt at populistic support.

    I value and wish that modders would openly share resources but I also feel that modders should have and do have the right to control where their mod content is used. I believe the Ancient Empires team and mod lead have knowingly used my assets for the last month and have proceeded to be deceitful in my investigation into why they were used with no credit at all.
    Yes, Ancient Empires has a long, sinister history of not giving credit where credit is due.

    Spoiler for Front Page: Download & Installation


    I'm calling this for what it is. Slander.


    Campaign modder for Ancient Empires


  6. #6

    Default Re: Notification of Stolen Mod Assets.

    I can confirm that the comment I referred to was Castellan's own comment regarding why Celticus had not given us permission that I did not think appropriate for our tester slack forum (we have a private one for the team of which you are still a part of, and a more public one).

    While UMC openly admits he made a mistake, we did also ask for you to send us a list of your assets used so we could remove them all correctly. In the meantime, UMC will be rolling back the second pack of AE to remove all new models until we have time to run through the new files properly.

    This was also discussed on slack, and I also sent you further steam messages regarding this but you had removed me from steam and also went offline on the slack forum. I will reiterate what I said before you left, you're entirely justified to make a complaint but I do not agree that cutting your dialogue with us was the best course of action as we want to fix the error we made.

    Edit: as for those of you asking why we could not have just added credits, it is for the exact reason that we had no idea his work was in AE, as soon as we found out UMC began working towards removing them.
    Last edited by Petellius; August 10, 2018 at 03:28 AM.
    Vespasian's own: Up the Augusta! For Cato!

    AE: Battle Balancing and BAI.

  7. #7
    UMCenturion's Avatar Ducenarius
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    Default Re: Notification of Stolen Mod Assets.

    Celticus - As discussed we have been in the process of removing your assets. Again as Sheridan provided screenshots of our conversation, I have taken full responsibility, but would like to stress this was a mistake and not malicious. Because of an issue you had with the original mod leader ABH back in 2015, 2016, you are holding a grudge and saw this as a perfect opportunity to jump on. I have self reported myself to total war admin Gen Chris, admitting to this mistake. I wish you could have kept this privately, and professional. Instead you are slandering a piece of work so many have contributed to and put a lot of work into. You are now spamming forums and download pages in effort to bring us down.

    Again, this is a mistake and actions have been taken to correct this. I will leave this post up for the community to see. I do however, wish you would continue to communicate with us as a professional, instead of ignoring messages and spamming threads. You have done great work, and the community sees that. Please assist us in resolving this manner professionally.
    Last edited by UMCenturion; August 10, 2018 at 11:16 AM.

    Mod Lead - UI/2D Art - Custom Map Editing

  8. #8

    Default Re: Notification of Stolen Mod Assets.

    Why is this drama spilling into AE's main forum when there are moderator tools and such for this sort of thing to be handled directly?

  9. #9

    Default Re: Notification of Stolen Mod Assets.

    Seems like everyone is handling this responsibly and with maturity.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Notification of Stolen Mod Assets.

    @Sheridan: Thank you for saving the conversation, I actually wanted to get it but I am serious when I say I no longer have access to the slack. Temp email sign up, It is a shame I was told the conversation was deleted but that wasn't the main issue I had.

    @UMCenturion - "Again, this is a mistake and actions have been taken to correct this. I will leave this post up for the community to see. I do however, wish you would continue to communicate with us as a professional, instead of ignoring messages and spamming threads. You have done great work, and the community sees that. Please assist us in resolving this manner professionally."

    I just want to get to the bottom of this too. Unfortunately the reasons I have been provided do not line up with the facts of the situation. My files are not names according to a set convention but there is a clear way to check if something has been added and that is looking into the pack files. Here is a section of the helmets:

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



    As you can see, the helmet pack was merely copy and pasted into the Ancient Empires files. Now where would a person get the files? First they would go to my Steam mod page where I hosted the files and had download links for all to see here:

    https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfil...?id=1217341916

    I divided my packs into several packs due to loading and editing. The helmet pack come from the rar titled:

    Rome II HD 0.95.rar

    The pack file that contains these helmets as titled above is:

    @celt_rome2_hd_helmets

    The mod download link comes from the Steam mod page of Celticus Magnus, the file rar is called Rome II HD 0.95, and the pack file that the files were extracted from has "celt" in the name. Its for these reasons that I just cannot accept the argument that this was a "mistake". Its for this reason that I believe I have been deceived by the team. The truth of the matter is someone had to go through the effort to install my mod, extract its files, and purposefully choose not to credit my work in their mod despite the fact that it is visible on nearly every single unit in the game. Thankfully Sheridan provided the statement that I wanted to send in the first place.

    You stated this:

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 




    You approached me when one of the mod users pointed out the True Legions, yes, a DEI part of the models was in your mod. You only spoke to me about using those assets:

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



    At this date, nearly 2 GB worth of my assets had already been in Ancient Empires. Once again you claim it was a mistake. You said a completely independent individual told you that my assets could be used in your mod. When I asked for the individual in question this was the response:

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



    Once again there is the explanation: "We didn't know" Petellius adds in this very post: Edit: as for those of you asking why we could not have just added credits, it is for the exact reason that we had no idea his work was in AE, as soon as we found out UMC began working towards removing them.

    My biggest issue and the reason I even decided to report this is the fact that I cannot believe a competent mod team would mistakenly, unknowingly, add nearly 2 GB worth of model variants and textures, from a rar titled after my mod, from pack files with my name inserted into the file name, and then somehow forget to credit or even find out where these models came from. Divide et Impera is a mod that has nothing to do with Rome II HD, has an entirely separate mod page from it, and is completely contained within a different set of packs. You guys claim this to be some grudge, it is no grudge and if you consider a modder seeking control over their own work a grudge, then accusations that these claims are slanderous is slander itself. Your mod has benefited from my assets for nearly a month now and there are two situations that result from the evidence:

    A: UMC, you and your mod team accepted models from an unknown source independent of all of my steam pages, rar files, and pack files, and then refused to inform me of who is passing off my work as their own, and then chose not to investigate this for a month until one of your own users compelled you to do so.

    OR

    B. You knowingly downloaded my files from my mod pages, looked into the packs that contained my name and my mod files, chose to incorporate all of those models into the mod, and then chose not to credit my work on any forum, steam page, or patch note.

    Neither are tolerable.
    Last edited by The Gravemind; August 10, 2018 at 12:44 PM.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Notification of Stolen Mod Assets.

    Maybe it's because I'm new here but I'm having a hard time figuring out exactly what are you asking for here in this thread besides a pound a flesh?

  12. #12
    UMCenturion's Avatar Ducenarius
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    Default Re: Notification of Stolen Mod Assets.

    Celticus - Thanks. I would opt for C, which I truly believe should be accepted and understood. I am unable at the moment to fully respond, but I hope this helps clear up your questions on the variants and models. Attached is a submod that is used with DeI. All variants were imported from the DeI main packs as well as this submod. My assets are being used over on the DeI subforum: A submodder made a compatibility patch with these variants that I then in turn imported into AE to update our legions and divide et impera polybian units with. Again, this was not intentionally knowingly from your pack. http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...tibility-patch
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    However, It is my fault for not seeing this, and the download link I used to import those models and variants were on the steam page below, as well as DeI's main pack. If I would have read that the assets were yours or a part of True Legions, I most certainly would have reached out. Which, I did, just after the fact and that is my mistake. So I am not quite sure what else you want.
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    I have reverted our models pack, and now have roman generals running around our campaign map without heads. Is there anything else we can assist you with?
    Last edited by UMCenturion; August 10, 2018 at 01:58 PM.

    Mod Lead - UI/2D Art - Custom Map Editing

  13. #13

    Default Re: Notification of Stolen Mod Assets.

    Happy to see the AE team is handling this responsibly.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Notification of Stolen Mod Assets.

    @UMCenturion, as we already agreed, yes you had content from True Legions and DEI, but you also had content from my non-DEI mods, which is the entire issue I have. Not only are you being misleading, you are lying completely to my face and the public. You don't even need to take my word from it. Thankfully the Beta Tester who is publicly listed on your page stated this:







    Either he is lying, or you are.



    EDIT #1

    The_Blank97 on your public page here: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...1-03g-August-5
    Rome II HD here (note HD skins which is found in Rome II HD are not in DEI): https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfil...?id=1217341916
    Rome II Celticus Helms, Mentioned in the post: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfil.../?id=771107340

    EDIT #2

    As of this time I have investigated the claim that all assets were taken from the mods linked in UMC posts above and the DEI files and have found the True Legions assets but none of the Rome II HD assets that fill Ancient Empires. At this point it is clear you took many items from Rome II HD as your tester pointed out in the conversation above.
    Last edited by The Gravemind; August 10, 2018 at 04:02 PM.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Notification of Stolen Mod Assets.

    Hey man, leave Jeff Goldblum out of this.

  16. #16
    UMCenturion's Avatar Ducenarius
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    Default Re: Notification of Stolen Mod Assets.

    So there are two things we continue to bounce back and forth with - True legions, and the Rome hd files.

    1. True legions are a part of DeI now - These were imported from DeI without knowledge of them being yours. We acknowledged the mistake and agreed to have them removed.

    2. Rome 2 HD files: I was not involved in the conversation you posted above. The beta tester listed there provided a link to me at one point earlier in time, while we were talking about DeI. I assumed them being apart of DeI. This was my fatal mistake. The other beta tester blurred, reached out to me to inform me of the mishap. I then followed up with a question about who this person was, as I was not aware of his mod. I followed up to request permission. I was denied and have since been working on removing them. I have now reverted the part 2 pack that contained the files, to the detriment of the mod.

    Again this was a misunderstanding, no ill will. The beta tester may have known it was from your mod, but I did not at the time of implementation. You can call it negligence, as I should have been more careful with what I do, and what I implement.

    We have apologized and agreed to remove this privately, and now publicly. Again, truly a misunderstanding. This matter has extended a period of 2 weeks. Please accept our apology for the misunderstanding. The Gravemind/Celticus, you have great work and its a shame it's come to this. But please at the very least understand that this is a mistake, and not something of ill intent to claim credit of someone else's work.

    Mod Lead - UI/2D Art - Custom Map Editing

  17. #17

    Default Re: Notification of Stolen Mod Assets.

    OP sure is on a crusade

  18. #18

    Default Re: Notification of Stolen Mod Assets.

    Quote Originally Posted by Athos187 View Post
    Seems like everyone is handling this responsibly and with maturity.
    this should have been done in private and not here in the public forums...

    this is what you call shaming by publicity.. very CHILDISH.

    Claims may be true or not.. but the issues should have been handled privately.

    Non-modders here like myself doesn't need to know shyt like this.

    Giving credits where creditors are due is really important!!!

    BUT KEEP THE NORMAL PEOPLE OUT OF THIS!!

  19. #19

    Default Re: Notification of Stolen Mod Assets.

    Agreed, I'd like for all to stop posting on here until an admin gets round to closing it.

    We responded to this only as much as we felt we needed to, so as to halt the misinformation that only damages us, our community and our relationships with other communities.

    If people wish to make an opinion on this then I would recommend waiting until a formal decision has been made by TWC admins.
    Vespasian's own: Up the Augusta! For Cato!

    AE: Battle Balancing and BAI.

  20. #20
    Maetharin's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Notification of Stolen Mod Assets.

    @The Gravemind/Celticus: Do you know the amount of assets AE is using?
    They not only have assets from DeI, but also Vanilla and other mods.
    It is one of the most extensive mods in TW history, from an asset point of view at least.

    Is it really that hard to understand that it takes a lot of time to filter through all of these,
    especially with such a limited tool as PFM? Especially since the AE devs are not professionals and have to handle all of this in their free time?

    They have apologised since the beginning of this, and are doing their best to rectify their mistakes,
    yet you insist on accusing them of malicious intent! Instead of being a massively pedantic lout,
    maybe just help them with removing your assets by providing them with a list of the exact assets you mean!

    And even then don‘t expect them to finish it over night. They’re doing this in their free time, just as you do,
    so please just show some damn patience.
    "Ceterum censeo Carthaginem delendam esse!"

    Marcus Porcius Cato Censorius

    "I concur!"

    ​Me

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