The Battle of Crete as a humanitarian disaster and war crime.

[AnthoniusII]

21st of April in 1941 the German airborne forces started their invasion in the island of Crete trying to elliminate what was left from the British expedition Forces that previusly were forced in retreat and defeat in Greek main land. The other objectives were:
Capture the Greek Goverment and the Greek Gold treasury.
Capture the island of Crete and prevent British to use it as air and naval base for their future raids against Greek main land, Italy and above all against Poesti Oil facilities.
In this thread we are going to see what happened not as a military operation but as a humanitarian crisis and war crimes.
German airborne troops were defeated in central and eastern shores by the comon defence of the Commonwealth and local forces that included what was rameined of Greek Army , Police forces and civilians that actually had no weapons! The misforthune of Maleme defence by the heroic New Zealanders gave the opportunity to German forces to land heavy guns and freash troops without any threat. We know that a new Dankerque created in Sfakia narrow shores in south of Crete. What it will bother us here id the aftermath or even incidents of crimes against civilians.
Greeks defended their homeland and houses and Germans burned down villages and mass executed unarmed civilians for 1st time in WW2.
June 2nd 1941 Kydonia of Crete : The very 1st mass execution of civilians.

Kontamari village in the same day:




The holocaust of Kandanos Village (all inhabidands that were arrested executed and the village was butned to the ground).


Almost 60 Cretan villages had the same fate.

Those war crimes were "forced" to be "forgoten" for the political interests of USA and NATO that needed West Germany.
What is not known is that there is a term in the German surender pact that Germany must pay back for all these autrocities when it will be united.

We talk about the Jewish Holocaust (rightfully) but did you know that Soviet Unit had the upsolute number of civilians dead (17 milions) but Greece had the greatest in (%) loss of it poulation(20%) and distruction of its infrastracure (80%) in the entire WW2?
Hundreds of villages burned to the ground. Greece was the ONLY ocupied state that was striped entirely from it foods supplies in the winder of 1941 having the upsolute number losses from hunger in war times EVER!

This thread is not about promoting national hate. Its about learning that wars are not the battles we read and we get fascinated with the guns and tanks and all that.
War is a constant missery and pain...
Thank fully some Germans know the truth.
Watch this video to it end!!

[alhoon]

Well, it's not current political event. I think it should go to the VV

[Abdülmecid I]

We talk about the Jewish Holocaust (rightfully) but did you know that Soviet Unit had the upsolute number of civilians dead (17 milions) but Greece had the greatest in (%) loss of it poulation(20%) and distruction of its infrastracure (80%) in the entire WW2?

I'm sure that Greece suffered greatly during WW2, from the occupying German, Bulgarian and Italian armies, but let's not exaggerate. According to the highest estimations, Greece had lost approximately the 10% of her population, which is an awfully large number, but not as high as that of Poland's, for example, with almost 6,000,000 million dead civilians or more than 15% of her total population:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties

[bigdaddy1204]

I'm sure that Greece suffered greatly during WW2, from the occupying German, Bulgarian and Italian armies, but let's not exaggerate. According to the highest estimations, Greece had lost approximately the 10% of her population, which is an awfully large number, but not as high as that of Poland's, for example, with almost 6,000,000 million dead civilians or more than 15% of her total population:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties

It's not a competition, to see who lost more people than the other. I think AnthoniusII is making a political point about current day relations between Greece and Germany. Why is Germany demanding that modern Greece be reduced to poverty and ruins as part of the disgraceful economic "deal" to keep Greece in the Euro, when Germans have never paid back what they owe for committing crimes against Greece in WW2?

The implication is clear: Germany should pay Greece compensation and quit treating the country so harshly in the 21st century. Greece should be given debt relief and the Germans should apologise and compensate for the destruction caused during the war. For Germany to demand such austere conditions on Greece today is unfair and totally unacceptable.

[AnthoniusII]

Well, it's not current political event. I think it should go to the VV

Its very political because WAR is a political action.

I'm sure that Greece suffered greatly during WW2, from the occupying German, Bulgarian and Italian armies, but let's not exaggerate. According to the highest estimations, Greece had lost approximately the 10% of her population, which is an awfully large number, but not as high as that of Poland's, for example, with almost 6,000,000 million dead civilians or more than 15% of her total population:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties

It seams that German high Court does not agree with wikipedia that anyone can write in it!
The 300 thousand pages report has all the details. In fact on the head of that research is a German Historian Mr Fliser (if i am writing his name correctly).
In fact he revealed in London that the ammount of the dept of Germany is 300 Bilion Euros

[caratacus]

I'm not sure what this is doing in the Mudpit, but it could be made topical if tied to a another Greek default on the horizon, and there are certainly those that do. But if those Greeks feel so strongly would they care to even touch German money.

Crete was a military failure for the Germans, their airborne divisions sustained very heavy casualties, in no part due to the fighting spirit of ordinary Cretans. It was this that caused these retributions, shock and anger of such losses and a German high command that used brutality as a means to prevent resistance.Those responsible should have been brought to justice, there is no doubt of that. These people were defending their homeland and the executions were criminal acts of vengeance.

But to imply that such an atrocity has some bearing on Greece's financial problems today, I'm sorry I cannot accept that. Greeks should look to their Cretan brothers and sisters back then and take great pride in what they did and suffering that they bore. Those Cretan people were true nationalists, they certainly wouldn't go cap in hand to Berlin and would probably have rather starved first. They didn't accept foreign rule then and they wouldn't now. Greece should have defaulted and left the EU. However another path was chosen instead by a Leftist government, that must be accepted. The consequences for Greece and the Euro for not continuing along this path will be very grave indeed.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36149147
The head of the European Union has rejected Greece's request for an emergency meeting aimed at ending an impasse over the country's bailout. EU Council President Donald Tusk said the group's finance ministers needed to resume talks themselves within days.

Greece agreed to a third rescue package worth €86bn (£60bn; $94bn) last year and faces a looming debt payment.

However, it has been unable to unlock the next loan instalment after clashing with its creditors over more reforms.
The International Monetary Fund and other European partners are demanding that Greece implement further austerity measures.
They are looking to generate nearly €4bn in additional savings or contingency money in case Greece misses future budget targets.

But the left-wing government led by Alexis Tsipras has said it will not agree to any "additional actions" to what it had already signed up to last summer. A special ministerial meeting was supposed to be held on Thursday, but Dutch Finance Minister Jeroen Dijsselbloem, who is in charge of the Greece negotiations, called it off.
Debt repayment

There are worries that Greece may default on €3.5bn in debt payments due in July if an agreement is not reached soon.
Last summer, a crisis erupted after Athens defaulted on its debt payments and raised the spectre of an exit from the eurozone.
But Athens has faced stiff resistance from voters to the austerity measures, which include politically charged changes to its pension and tax system. It is already looking to implement spending cuts that will amount to 3% of the country's gross domestic product or €5.4bn euros by 2018.

Greek shares slumped by more than 4% during the trading day on fears of renewed economic uncertainty in the country.
Share this story About sharing

[bigdaddy1204]

Greece should have defaulted and left the EU. However another path was chosen instead by a Leftist government, that must be accepted. The consequences for Greece and the Euro for not continuing along this path will be very grave indeed.

I agree. The terms for staying were so extreme that they were unacceptable. Staying in a relationship that is not working is a recipe for disaster. Greece would be much better off if it had defaulted and left the Euro back in 2010.

[AnthoniusII]

I agree. The terms for staying were so extreme that they were unacceptable. Staying in a relationship that is not working is a recipe for disaster. Greece would be much better off if it had defaulted and left the Euro back in 2010.

True...but :
1st: This does not change historical facts like this thread shows.
2nd: This does not change the obligations of Germany to Greece even the war is long gone.
3rd: If Greece would default in 2010 now it would be in a grouth process but European Banks would colapse. Back in 2010 after Island's default and the huge blow to European banks from that action, EU needed time to take Greece's dept from the bankers and load it to European citizens. That is the reason of why EU did not "allow" Greece to default in 2010! To save 20-30 banks and "default" milions of Europeans!

[alhoon]

Its very political because WAR is a political action.

Yes... but it's not CURRENT political event.

And let's not forget the most important part here: The CRETAN PEOPLE nearly beat back the Germans. We weren't second fiddle to the English. We hit the Germans hard.

But to imply that such an atrocity has some bearing on Greece's financial problems today, I'm sorry I cannot accept that.

I didn't see that anywhere in the post.

Greeks should look to their Cretan brothers and sisters back then and take great pride in what they did and suffering that they bore. Those Cretan people were true nationalists, they certainly wouldn't go cap in hand to Berlin and would probably have rather starved first. They didn't accept foreign rule then and they wouldn't now. Greece should have defaulted and left the EU. However another path was chosen instead by a Leftist government, that must be accepted. The consequences for Greece and the Euro for not continuing along this path will be very grave indeed.

PATRIOTS, not nationalists. We lost too many good people. The hooded traitors that were pointing to resistance fighters for the Germans, or the crows that grew rich from selling oil to their starving brothers... got in the parliament. Their kids are still in the parliament.
I would say that we shouldn't judge the kids because of the acts of their traitor parents but they seem to exalt the work of their parents, so screw them too.

Those Cretan people were true nationalists, they certainly wouldn't go cap in hand to Berlin and would probably have rather starved first. They didn't accept foreign rule then and they wouldn't now.

I talked to a survivor, he didn't feel too great about it true. And these people knew what it matters and it's not having the newest cellphone model. It's dignity.

. However another path was chosen instead by a Leftist government, that must be accepted. The consequences for Greece and the Euro for not continuing along this path will be very grave indeed.

You mean, another path was chosen by 1 center-leftwing government, 1 technocrat government, 1 rightwing government and one leftwing government.
And I disagree. The path was NOT out of the Euro. We could have kept our dignity and stayed in the Euro, if we had better leadership (like we did with the technocrat government).

2nd: This does not change the obligations of Germany to Greece even the war is long gone.

It does since a daughter of one of the traitors signed off the reparations when she was serving as a minister.

[caratacus]

True...but :
1st: This does not change historical facts like this thread shows.
2nd: This does not change the obligations of Germany to Greece even the war is long gone.
3rd: If Greece would default in 2010 now it would be in a grouth process but European Banks would colapse. Back in 2010 after Island's default and the huge blow to European banks from that action, EU needed time to take Greece's dept from the bankers and load it to European citizens. That is the reason of why EU did not "allow" Greece to default in 2010! To save 20-30 banks and "default" milions of Europeans!

If Greeks felt so strongly about this, why weren't reparations for German occupation of Greece in WW2, linked with negotiations to join the Euro? Of course the answer back then from Germany would have been a big fat "Nein" Greece wouldn't have been bought and sold, and this whole crisis would not have happened.

I feel great sympathy for Greece, I really do. As you say the European banks have been given time to cushion themselves from a Greek exit from the Euro, Greece is more heavily in debt with a stagnant economy and the threat of leaving to exert infuence with creditors in negotiations has diminished.

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2...euro.html?_r=0
Greece’s Debt Crisis Explained By THE NEW YORK TIMES UPDATED May 9, 2016

"The economy has shrunk by a quarter in five years, and unemployment is about 25 percent.

The bailout money mainly goes toward paying off Greece’s international loans, rather than making its way into the economy. And the government still has a staggering debt load that it cannot begin to pay down unless a recovery takes hold.
The government will now need to continue putting in place deep economic overhauls required by the bailout deal Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras brokered in August, as well as the unwinding of capital controls introduced after political upheaval prompted a run on Greek banks.

[Abdülmecid I]

It's not a competition, to see who lost more people than the other. I think AnthoniusII is making a political point about current day relations between Greece and Germany. Why is Germany demanding that modern Greece be reduced to poverty and ruins as part of the disgraceful economic "deal" to keep Greece in the Euro, when Germans have never paid back what they owe for committing crimes against Greece in WW2?

Yes, my point was purely historical, as Greece's place on civilian casualties' list doesn't determine whether they deserve or not further reparations from Germany. Regarding the topic, as far as I know, the issue is a bit controversial, since, according to the German government, there are no more obligations between the countries, after Germany having paid approximately 70 million dollars to Greece in 1960. Not sure where the truth lies, considering that I'm not very knowledgeable about the subject and that obviously neither side, due to its very probable lack of objectivity, can be immediately considered trustworthy, without prior studying of the matter in question.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-31849430

Its very political because WAR is a political action.

Well, in this specific case, the numbers of Wikipedia are cited. By the way, apart from the civilian casualties discrepancy, it is also mentioned that the Greek infrastructure was destroyed by 28%, not 80%, which honestly sounds a bit more reasonable, as Greece had been a war-zone for a relatively short period of time.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

http://www.truth-out.org/speakout/it...g-world-war-ii

If there is a link to a source that claims otherwise, then please share it with us, in order to better compare the conflicting information.

[Ziltoid]

Antony Beevor wrote good book on this topic, can recommend it if intrested in this topic.



Germans also burned Lapland, northern part of Finland. And relative of mine, girl aged 17 back then, went out to give column of german trucks milk as they passed by, they were too busy to stop to receive it so they just shot her for fun.

Similar brutality towards civilians happened all over the German war theater, from France, to Italy to Finland to Crece so this story isn't really unique, even if it is intresting history.

[Garbarsardar]

Moved to VV as the battle of Crete is not a current political event.

[Stavroforos]

The Battle of Crete is one of the great early examples that people can point out to the German fanboys who think that only the few Nazis did bad things during the war as broader guilt in the German armed forces.

[Condottiere 40K]

It decimated the German Airborne units and apparently the Luftwaffe, and may have made them gunshy about trying the same thing in Malta, not exactly unknown for resisting overwhelming forced invasions.

[AnthoniusII]

Kontomari trivia:
The unit was the 3rd battalion of parashuters. 3/4 of that unit was exterminated by Maleme Nea Zealanders. The only senir officer was a 24 years old 2nd liutenant.
While many Germans later admited that Maori made some attrocities in German dead bodies there were no proof that those civilians harmed Germans. In fact one of them head a writen note from another german that a familiy of that village helped him to stay alive. That family excluded from the massacre.
Also another of the german soldiers saved a 17 years old boy.
The photpgrapher was assigned by the ministry of propaganda to photo the victories and he took those pictures by his own responsibility.
He returned to Kontomari in 1955! The only male inhabidants that were not executes were those that were under 8 years old in 1941. When the photographer went to Kontomari "cafe" Cretans bought him raki and food like ANY other Guest (because philoxenia is sacred in Greece). When he said that he was the one that took the photographs he was told that he was treated as eny other guest but he should leave the village for his safety. THEY DID NOT HARM HIM!!!!!!!!! That is what means to be GREEK.
The photos remained in west Germany military defence ministry hiden and revealed to public by a greek journalist in 1980!
The German in front (that laughs)


Returned to Crete as turist but a girl that worked in his hotel and she was one of the underaged that excluded from the executionm recognised him.
He admited that the man in the photo was him but he was proud that did that!
The man with the shorts was the young officer that ordered the execution:

Almost 60 villages like kontomari (see Kandanos) had worst fate later.
Every year Commonwealth and Germans come to Crete for the battle ceremonies.
One bizzare thing Germans saw it was a Cretan woman that lost 2 sons and her husband by the Germans.to take care of German tombs as well !
When they asked her why she gave a realy astonishing answer!
They were some mother's sons too!
You know what was the WORST of that execution?
In Greek ideology DEAD people are sacred even if they are the enemies.
But those German troops started to dance on those dead bodies and forbiten those that were excluded (underage children and very old women) to burry their dead for 3 days!

[Stavroforos]

I don't think you'll find many examples of Greeks treating corpses as well during the civil war, but I guess that's just something we conveniently forget about.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

[AnthoniusII]

Civil war is a diferent thing. Dead considered "traitors" from the "other side". Still not burrying the corpses was a sin! A hybris to God and Culture.
The enemy's body is sacred (Sophocles/Antigone) in the Hellenic culture.
Unforthunatly no english subs are available:

Next of Kontomari came Kandanos:


Crete was the 1st World Wide war crimes testbed for Germans!
But thousands more came after!
Kalavryta

Distomo!

1468 villages followed in Greece in 4 years time frame.
This thread is not about promoting hate but by learning the real history to learn not to repeat the same mistakes.
These Germans treated the matter with great sencitivity.

I am honored that these men face the truth so delicate. Watch the last 10 minutes.
Humanity is too close to repeat them TODAY!

Sea the contrast : Cretans never admited defeat because the Cretan soldiers were away from the island because the Greco-Italian war.

Now see the greatness of Greeks!

Lyrics.
Γροικάτε ήντα παράγγειλε η Κρήτη των παιδιών τσι
μετρήσετε τα μνήματα των εδικών και ξένων
σε ούλα να ανάψετε κερί, λιβάνι και καντήλι
κι αν έρθουν και δικολογιές των ξένων σκοτωμένων
να τσι φιλοξενήσετε.
@Stavroforos can you translate them to our non Greek friends to understand what this song says?