OP Legionaries

[Wittman]

5-6 companion cavalry charges in the rear and they still dont break,while at the front they are attacked from all sides,same as i tried to play with other factions vs roman legions.
Sure they really were great in history,but its a little game breaking for them to have such high morale,high armor,high damage.

[Ivan_Moscavich]

[Wittman]

[Spartas Julius]

5-6 companion cavalry charges in the rear and they still dont break,while at the front they are attacked from all sides,same as i tried to play with other factions vs roman legions.
Sure they really were great in history,but its a little game breaking for them to have such high morale,high armor,high damage.

The short version if you do not wish to keep on reading, the Romans were historically(militarily)...OP.

Rome only began to experience trouble when Rome STOPPED behaving militarily as Romans used to behave. Also, barbarians began to fight and equip themselves similarly to how Romans USED to equip themselves as. So Rome was OP, until they "stopped" begin Roman, while more barbarians began acting (militarily) more like Rome used to be.

[Wittman]

Yes i know all that,but maybe a little lower morale or something,it is a game,not a history book.

[Ivan_Moscavich]

First the standard questions.

What difficulty were you playing on? Roma legionnaires are tough, but they aren't invincible. I know because I occasionally lose 5 or 10 of them in a battle. 5 or 10 soldiers, not cohorts.

[Wittman]

Hard?I mean i can beat them thats not the problem,just thought elite cavalry of any kind that charges from the flanks 2-3 times should obliterate any infantry unit.

[Ivan_Moscavich]

Cavalry charges are less effective against more armoured units that have tight spacing in most cases. I'm not sure if KAM will be rebalancing cavalry again or not, so that may change in the future.

Hard difficulty is a sufficient enough boost in stats to make legionnaires go from "difficult to fight" to "why won't you ing die?". Unless you find normal battle difficulty extremely easy, it is recommended to play on normal battle difficulty.

[Spartas Julius]

Hard?I mean i can beat them thats not the problem,just thought elite cavalry of any kind that charges from the flanks 2-3 times should obliterate any infantry unit.

FIrst, true the game is not a history book. However, if we follow your train of thought then every nation should be just the same thing. Except for skins and BASED on decisions then you would forge the nation you want. If that is what you ar elooking for, I would suggest EU:IV with no lucky nations on. It is very enjoyable crafting your own nation based on your geographical limitations.

And no, please don't take it as an insult, I am not implying "if you don't like the game go play something else". I'm the first who would say I hate those type of individuals. However this game is limited in that regard, and unless every nation is made neutral with no advantages then changing on thing requires balancing. Think of it as basic math, what you take to one side you must add to another; this process applies to every nation.

What was also mentioned above is basic physics we tend to forget in military tactics. Think of Alexander's cavalry, known for their heavy shock tactics, but we also forget they were mainly used against lightly armored cavalry of the persians.

Shock, is based on simple physics. How much mass does your ram has, how much mass and volume the target has. If your target is lighter and more spread out the ram works similar to a nail going through wood. The denser a formation is, and the heavier the soldiers that compose it the less effective cavalry is. Just because you smash a rock into a block of steel 10 times doesn't mean you will get any positive results.

You are using ineffective tactics thinking doing the same thing again and again will yield different results. A heavy mass with low volume needs to be chipped away from afar. Hence the Romans bane, lightly armred extremely mobile missile forces.


The same train of thought would apply in another way. It would be like saying I can't catch Middle Eastern, Steppe horsemen and their horse archers keep inflicting too much casualties. Speed isn't my forte, arguing those horsemen should be penalized by having their overall speed reduced is more than a little bit unfair.

[KAM 2150]

Hard difficulty is the answer. You can't expect anu balance when difficulty bonuses and tech/general/experience/army perks are added. In balanced enviroment 1-3 charges is max what is needed to rout legionares.

[Wittman]

I was not saying that at all,every nation should be unique in DeI i have no problems about that,i enjoy playing this mod very very much,but balance must be maintained.

[Spartas Julius]

I was not saying that at all,every nation should be unique in DeI i have no problems about that,i enjoy playing this mod very very much,but balance must be maintained.

And there you explained the dilemma of every developer, uniqueness vs balance(generic). Both are on opposite sides of the spectrum.

[GatoVolador]

Why is this still a discussion? It is stated like freakin' everywhere that DeI battles are meant to be played on normal difficulty. It's even a comment in the loading screens ffs.

It has nothing to do with balance or player capabilities. The statmodifiers given by difficulty level are hardcoded and cannot be changed. On the other hand, DeI uses lower stats than vanilla for a variety of reasons, but point is that the hardcoded modifiers are way more impactful on DeI stats than on vanilla stats. So hard is not hard, but something more akin to legendary battle difficulty.

Please read the FAQs and recomendations before raging

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[Dardo21]

It's even an in-game tip on the loading screens.

[Wittman]

I didnt rage,i was just statitng they are op,and yes i tried normal difficulty and it still needs 2-3 charges for them to break,which isnt really realistic.

[KAM 2150]

If they would break after single rear charge then you would win every single battle with just single cavalry unit as AI would not counter it.

[gornoviceanu]

Well if you want "realistic" then only Rome should use 20 unit cards and the rest of factions should have max 10 unit cards "main frontline", "main reserve", "left flank" you get the idea

No one, especially in the early times of Rome, fought with maniples (unit card concept).

[TheRazaman]

I didnt rage,i was just statitng they are op,and yes i tried normal difficulty and it still needs 2-3 charges for them to break,which isnt really realistic.

Except that IS realistic. A well disciplined, highly trained and heavily armored infantry won't rout from a single rear charge. You're being inflexible in your tactics and blaming the game for the result.

[Wittman]

Except that IS realistic. A well disciplined, highly trained and heavily armored infantry won't rout from a single rear charge. You're being inflexible in your tactics and blaming the game for the result.

Sure thing,im inflexible,3 charges with 3 units of cav in the rear and no rout is realistic.+ that kind of charges should kill half the unit,not 15-20

[volleyfire]

I also found Hard difficulty unbalanced and buggy. I started off a hard campaign then there were all kinda issues. Sometimes, enemy unit info won't show up, sometimes all enemy units have exactly the same name. Also, at one river crossing battle. The AI attacked me but it won't advance across the river. It would rather lose the battle by wasting away the time limit. Then next turn it would come back to do the same thing. So I restarted a new campaign in normal just as what the guide said.