Conquest: 1066 AD - Charlemagne Mod

[Linke]

[Old thread that wasn't even ours: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...th-Century-Mod ]



Info, what is it?:
1066 is a mod working towards converting the Age of Charlemagne dlc into the world of the 11th century, whilst still preserving the unique and much applauded "feel" of vanilla aoc. Central to the mod is the famous strugle between
the last Anglo-Saxon King, Harald Godwinson and his Norwegian and Norman foes over the Throne of England. But apart from these the playable factions cover the entire map, from the Iberian Peninsula, to the Plains of Hungary, Italy's lush pastures and the wooded heartlands of the Holy Roman Empire. We have for several reasons been limited to around 8 factions (for now), but even wth the Norman-english region bias there is a, big diversity covering the whole map.

The mod seeks to replace the starting map with new factions, that have the corresponding amount of new assets to be time-appropiate. That is to say they have new units, generals, icons and so on. Most of these are based on Charlemagnes style though, the unit rosters for example are for the most part similar to Charlemagnes smaller detailed rosters. Furthermore, time appropiate features such as war-weariness, the buildings and tech stay, with a few neccesary tweaks. The tech of Charlemagne will have been largely researched when you start the campaign, but the remainder will take more time. As for the story elements of Charlemagne, the so called "questlines", we unfortunately don't have the skills to make new ones. But we should at least have scripts for the Norwegian and Norman invasions (wich will happen anyways but these will time them more correctly). And perhaps the Almoravids as well.

Wip Previews:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Bayeux Tapestry unit

Faction icons sample (80% are done)

Team (any help anyhow is usefull!):

Linke - Mod lead (startpos, units, buildings/any db, research, merging)

Original mod team (first half of 2016):
Dontfearme22 - Celtic unit drafts, models, and logo.
Dudewiththefood - UI (unit cards, faction icons)
Snipetale - Graphics (Shield textures)
Iroqouis Pliskin - Text, Research (for region names and similar)

Later mod team:
Eldgrimr - research, history, faction names
sgz - ui and descriptions
ep1c fail - unit cards
archangel1565 - faction icons and descriptions
Zxcvmnb - faction icons
Independent contributers (I'll add you as teammembers if you wish).Tryggvi - Character namesBlastoise Groudon - contributed with artHoehonfeetn - many norman shield patternsGatormarine and philip o'hayda - descriptions
Other mod permissions:
Medieval Kingdoms team - models (see their credits here).
Constantine team - models
Charerg/Invasio Barbarorum III - game interface map base.
Karling team: Hadrian Ier especially - models and meshes
(*though linke is also member of karling and made the meshes).

[Mausolos of Caria]

Nice idea, I am looking forward to that It is just a shame CA butchered the Northern part of the map (no Norway, no Orkney, no Sweden etc.) which would be even more important at this point of time. But good luck with your project, if you need any historical advice regarding Germany, Austria or Scotland, just give me a shout

[VINC.XXIII]

Cool idea but your Three Lilies french heraldry is wrong for early medieval era, the Three Lilies are from the end of 14th century, reduced to three to praise Holy Trinity. Before it was Lilies everywhere, "en semis" like said heraldists.

ps: also no offence, but I think some efforts could be performed to find some more "authentic" faction symbols, these ones have very late stylisation, in the era of your mod, stylisation of animals/symbols was completly different. To get an idea of it, look carefully at Bayeux tapestry, also look the lions of "Norman Shields" you will find all over the web.

The Great Conflict mod(MTW2/Kingdoms) has great stylisations of earliest heraldry that can give a global idea about this matter.

[Athos187]

Looks excellent!

[Swagger]

The native (portuguese language) for County of Portugal is "Condado Portucalense"

that's how everyone in Portugal learns and speaks about it. Portugalia was the geographic name of the region, Condando (County) Portucalense was the political name of the county.

I suggest it to change

[VINC.XXIII]

The native (portuguese language) for County of Portugal is "Condado Portucalense"

that's how everyone in Portugal learns and speaks about it. Portugalia was the geographic name of the region, Condando (County) Portucalense was the political name of the county.

I suggest it to change

Also "Republicca di Genova" didn't existed at this point(1066). The name of that specific regim is from 16th century, in 1066 Genoa was politically dependant of House of Este(I strongly suggest to put that faction somewhere in one of his historic fiefs*, Milan for example)

*: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert...grave_of_Milan

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

In 1097, Genova henceforth became "Compagna Communis Ianuensis", the Comune of Genoa, a consular regim(an oligarchic republic, but tempered by popular counter-powers).

[Linke]

Cool idea but your Three Lilies french heraldry is wrong for early medieval era, the Three Lilies are from the end of 14th century, reduced to three to praise Holy Trinity. Before it was Lilies everywhere, "en semis" like said heraldists.
ps: also no offence, but I think some efforts could be performed to find some more "authentic" faction symbols, these ones have very late stylisation, in the era of your mod, stylisation of animals/symbols was completly different. To get an idea of it, look carefully at Bayeux tapestry, also look the lions of "Norman Shields" you will find all over the web.
The Great Conflict mod(MTW2/Kingdoms) has great stylisations of earliest heraldry that can give a global idea about this matter.

The faction Icons are based on Wappenwiki, so they have late style lions and all but for the most part (so far as is allowed) they are at least the right emblem. For France we'll definetely change it but most others may have to wait sometime, remember though everything is wip.

The native (portuguese language) for County of Portugal is "Condado Portucalense"
that's how everyone in Portugal learns and speaks about it. Portugalia was the geographic name of the region, Condando (County) Portucalense was the political name of the county.
I suggest it to change

Thanks for the info, I just went of Wikipedia that said Portugalia was used in documents. Note that Portugal may be entirely excluded in the Beta version (see below)

Also "Republicca di Genova" didn't existed at this point(1066). The name of that specific regim is from 16th century, in 1066 Genoa was politically dependant of House of Este(I strongly suggest to put that faction somewhere in one of his historic fiefs*, Milan for example)

*: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert...grave_of_Milan

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

In 1097, Genova henceforth became "Compagna Communis Ianuensis", the Comune of Genoa, a consular regim(an oligarchic republic, but tempered by popular counter-powers).

That map isn't really accurate, neither from a historical point of view nor a gameplay point of view. I have so far been unsuccesful in adding entirely new factions, thus the beta will only include so many factions that vanilla Charlemagne allows. This means Portugal may have to be absorbed into Galicia. Anyways because of that I combined factions like Blois-Champagne, Milan and Genova and some more.

[VINC.XXIII]

The faction Icons are based on Wappenwiki, so they have late style lions and all but for the most part (so far as is allowed) they are at least the right emblem. For France we'll definetely change it but most others may have to wait sometime, remember though everything is wip.

Anyways because of that I combined factions like Blois-Champagne, Milan and Genova and some more.

Sure, sorry for being a heraldry-nazi . Don't worry I know you can't mod borders.

I think its good to combine Milan Genoa for 1066AD .

Later you can make subfactions with civil war mechanism(saying Genoa become independant e.g and would escape to Este authority...)

[AnthoniusII]

The Great Conflict mod(MTW2/Kingdoms) has great stylisations of earliest heraldry that can give a global idea about this matter.

Remember that Norman knights in that era were not YET lancers. They used one or two spears. They used one as javeling and then used the other as short lance or they used their sword!


Look how short their spear was:


You may find this funny but Normans became "lancers" coppying Lombard heavy horsemen and Roman ones in Italy! From Italy that tactic spread to the entire Norman world.

[Eldgrimr]

This looks great! Looking forward to what this can bring.

[Dude with the Food]

Cool idea but your Three Lilies french heraldry is wrong for early medieval era, the Three Lilies are from the end of 14th century, reduced to three to praise Holy Trinity. Before it was Lilies everywhere, "en semis" like said heraldists.

ps: also no offence, but I think some efforts could be performed to find some more "authentic" faction symbols, these ones have very late stylisation, in the era of your mod, stylisation of animals/symbols was completly different. To get an idea of it, look carefully at Bayeux tapestry, also look the lions of "Norman Shields" you will find all over the web.

The Great Conflict mod(MTW2/Kingdoms) has great stylisations of earliest heraldry that can give a global idea about this matter.

No offence taken at all, it's good to get useful criticism. I went with the three lilies for France, because they're iconic and aren't really noticeable so small. There are still other factions needing logos but I will look into historical accuracy further down the line. Similarly with the late style of heraldry, it's much easier to find and when I revisit these things, finding a more authentic style will be a high priority.

[Eldgrimr]

By the way, are you guys going with English or authentic faction names? If you're going with authentic, I'd be happy to help with a lot of the names.

[Linke]

authentic but we have them researched, is there any group in particular you know/can verify

[Eldgrimr]

The ones that I know the most about would be Latin and Nordic factions.

[Linke]

@ZombieZleeping I sent you the full list in case you see any errors. To whatever degree possibly we wan't not just regional but historical names, now for Example Denmark is in Danish but it should be in (east) old norse if you know it.

Anyways for everyone: We will begin with aproximately 10 factions at most (because of time issues amongst other things, still it's a lot). We have chosen based on 3 reasons: Map position, Uniqueness and part in the 1066 war over the English throne.
Britain: England
Norse: Norway (based on it's vassals in West and North Scotland, like in Britain campaign of Medieval 2)
French: Normandie and France (Normaly we'd just have France but Normandie is the "Rome" of this mod)
German: Franconia/HRE (ruling duchy=
"East": Hungary (half of hungary actualy as the other part was ruled by rebellious cousins)
"Muslim": Sevilla (Most succesful of the post Cordoban-Taifa, we'd have the Almoravids as playable but if anything they will be a late emergent/Scripted faction)

HOWEVER, there are two "regions" left were I'm not entirely shure what faction to choose: These are Northern Iberia and Italy. I want everyone to suggest wich faction of these they would like to see.

Italy main options (say if you want another faction and why):
Pisa
+ Unique position and roster, Unique "Communal" feel different from the mostly feudal other kingdoms, arguably Italys most important maritime republic of the early middle ages, hard starting position unlike most factions.
- Minor City as capital, no expeditions into Africa or Levant as in history

Hautevilles (Future kingdom of Sicily)
+ Diverse starting enemies: Italians, Sicilian muslims, Byzantines, important faction historically
- "Boring roster", same units as france and Normandy with a few Italian levies, after quickly conquering south Italy they will "easily" subdue northern factions with no enemies to the flanks and no Byzantine expedition possible

Lombardy (realm of this guy: Genova, Milan and other Lombard cities united)
+ Same communal feel as Pisa but with a land basis instead, unique non-knight based communal roster, probably more important than Pisa politically, very interesting start with enemies on all sides (Pisa, HRE, disliking pope)
- Maybe to reminiscent of Medieval II, also kind of similar to vanilla Lombards (starting map wise not gameplay or unit wise, same capital and core regions but a lot weaker with no vassals like Lombards)

Spain main options (say if you want another faction and why):
Castile (or leon maybe)
+ Probably the more important players as succesors of Ferdinand the great, good starting positions with many rivals (first you must fight your brothers for control of Ferdinands empire, then fight of the emerging muslims in mid game)
- Only minor towns (Except for Leon), not so unique from vanilla Asturias and many m2 mods

Barcelona (Catalonia)
+ "Fresh"/unique feel from vanilla and most mods, a bit unique roster with mix of Occitan, Spanish and Catalans. Diverse starting enemies in French, Spanish and Andalusian factions.
- Not really as important in the long run for the region

[Moon_Man]

For Spain I would say Castile, it's more politically important than Barcelona and players of the mod would be more familiar with that kingdom.

For Italy I would say choose the Hautevilles, their position in Sicily and their numerous starting enemies wold make an interesting campaign. Regarding the unit problem, that can be fixed with some good old fashioned creativity and imagination right?

[Charerg]

For a Norman-centric mod, I'd definitely go with the Hautevilles for Italy.

[Eldgrimr]

The French fleur-de-lis wasn't used until the 12th or 13th century. The symbol of France should be the oriflamme, which dates back to Charlemagne, and was used in the early 12th century, perhaps even 11th.
I think that the top part of the oriflamme would be a good icon. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...flamme.svg.png

Also, if the HRE icon hasn't been made yet, I would recommend a single headed black eagle on a yellow/gold background. The double headed eagle wasn't used until the 15th century.

[Three Eyed Crow]

For a Norman-centric mod, I'd definitely go with the Hautevilles for Italy.

This.

Perhaps an aggressive Byzantium and Emirate of sicily/north africa will help to stop the domination? Plus the area was plagued by intrigue and revolts started by both emperors and d'Hautville vassals working in concert, probably impossible to implement but if Byzantium and the HRE holds territory on the Italian mainland and Sicily it could get messy/fun.
Maybe one or max two starting Provinces (Apulia/Melfi) And then split the rest of Italy between Byzantium, Sicily/North africa and the HRE...(with Rome as a subjugated asset of the HRE?)

Also is that Hautville flag still WIP? I have seen it a few different ways but red shield with a blue and white check running diagonally is on their crypt in Venosa.

Re Normandy I assume there will be other towns added later?

Really excited about this one!

[Three Eyed Crow]

*Tried to edit post but seems I can't, realized you're stuck with those two towns in Normandy proper due to their placement on the vanilla map, and how you're also limited to faction number because of the way AOC works. Age of Britain were smart in how they tackled that problem. I hadn't actually played AOC Vanilla until today, I went straight to AOB, sorry for the post spam.