Here is an insane idea that may actually be sane.
It expands citizenship! Creating a formal and Informal type
It gives a greater and a more direct say to a much larger group of members on the site.
It will most likely promote activity on the site as more people can openly participate in a meaningful way.
It diffuses power among a larger group of people preventing a "group think" or an arrogant behavior and attitude.
It promotes site community by allowing a larger group of people meaningful contribution in areas other than modding, debating, and gaming.
However, it isn't simple, but it will sure be a kick in the pants if we implement it.
NEW CLASSIFICATIONS Peregrinus: Common members Plebeians: (Informal Citizenship) Patricians: (Formal Citizenship/ Old Citizen class) Senators (Senatorii): Old Patrician class / technically new
Note: Badges are for Patrcian Class and Senatorii Class. Badges will therefore be Patrician, Artifex, and Civitates.
PLEBEIAN ASSEMBLY General members with at least 250 OR 500 posts or have a been a member of the site for at least 3 or 6 months
Generally, this group would include members who have invested time into forum through posts and contributions through modding, debating, serving as staff members (e.g. Moderators, Vault staff and Librarian, etc…), or volunteering for site projects, but who have not yet did enough to be patronized for formal Citizenship.
CURIA ASSEMBLY Patrician Class Only
Member are admitted by being patronized for Formal Citizenship by a current Patrician or Senator or being recognize (rewarded) with a large award.
SENATE Senators are expected to be exemplary members of the community in behavior and attitude. They must meet (all/some) requirements and have approval from the Senators - Citizen for at least 6 months
- Have not received a moderation warning or Curial Warning for the past 9 months.
- Patronize at least 3 members for citizenship and/ or successfully proposed at least 1 members for a large award and/ or successfully proposed at least 3 members for either small or medium awards.
- Participate in or vote in in at least 50% or more of Curia elections and decisions.
- - Served multiple terms (TBD) as an officer of TWC.
DETAILS OF POSITIONS
FORUM REORGANIZATIONS
I am not clever enough or knowledgeable enough to come up with Roman names for things. Some of the names are "placeholders" for something better.
Essentially, I kept everything. The Forum Magnum can become the New "Plebeian Assembly" The Senate becomes the preservers of the forum in every way as the Archives are placed here.
I also removed the word "republic" and replaced it with "site" so that it isn't confused with a role- playing "game, although this is what we are all doing anyway.
THE CAPITALPLEBEIAN ASSEMBLY Come to discuss matters of the site, complaints, grievances, and nominations. All are welcome, but only Plebeians can post.
SITE PROTHALAMOS
An area specifically for the proposal and discussion of legislation and decisions
SITE AWARDS ORGANIZATION AND FORUM TAGGING A more clever name here.
CURIA ASSEMBLY
Come to discuss matters of the site, complaints, grievances, and nominations. All may view, but only Patricians can post!
CURIA PROTHALAMOS An area specifically for the proposal and discussion of legislation, decisions, and elections of Officers. QUAESTIONES PERPETUAE
Where Patrician applications are processed.
SENATE
Come to discuss matters of the site, complaints, grievances, and nominations. All may view, but only Senatorii only!
POLITIA (Or merged to form a singular forum; however, I want the Senate to be publicly viewed like the real Roman Senate, so it may be best that it is separate) An area for the discussion of citizen’s referrals. Senatorii & officers only. ARCHIVES For measures that have either finished their vote or fallen inactive.
TWC LIVING HISTORY FORUM
This forum stores threads which are of historic significance to TWC. ANNALS AND REGISTRY
Records of Citizens enactments, proposals, and decisions.
CITIZEN ATECHAMBER
This is where Patrician Membership judgments are kept when concluded.
Before you knee jerk and respond with "oppose" or Pike, you are crazy. Think about it first. When you done laughing, then think again. Then post a reply. Honestly, when I thought about i laughed my butt off, but the more I thought about it, it was too crazy not to share.
Last edited by PikeStance; February 25, 2016 at 07:57 PM.
General members with at least 500 posts or have a been a member of the site for at least 1 year
Qualified to serve as staff members (e.g. Moderators, Vault staff and Librarian, etc…) or volunteers for site projects.
I disagree with that. There are some new members on TWC forums who will to help or be involved in Staff. Putting that "1 year" limit/condition is unfair for them and will probably discourage some of them for the least.
Also no moderation requirement for Plebeians?
Regarding their power, don't you think that the veto right might make things unmanageable?
Originally Posted by PikeStance
CURIA ASSEMBLY Patrician Class Only
Member are admitted by being patronized for Formal Citizenship by a current Patrician or Senator or being recognize (rewarded) with a large award.
As far as I understand, the actual constitution says
"Any member is eligible to receive the Opifex(Phalera, Asterix's) award, but must also meet the criteria to become a Citizen."
That implies
"To qualify for Citizenship, a member must have at least fifty posts, been a registered member for two months, and have not received a Moderation Warning or Curial Warning within the past six months."
What's your idea/proposal regarding the awards? That needs to be clarified to fully understand that " being recognize (rewarded) with a large award" sentence.
I will probably have more remarks/questions later but I need to dig some points out first to be sure to get the right understanding.
Last edited by Lifthrasir; February 24, 2016 at 04:13 AM.
Reason: typo
Under the patronage of Flinn, proud patron of Jadli, from the Heresy Vault of the Imperial House of Hader
PLEBEIAN ASSEMBLY General members with at least 500 posts or have a been a member of the site for at least 1 year
Why? Why not give it to every full member? Or at least those in good standing.
Qualified to serve as staff members (e.g. Moderators, Vault staff and Librarian, etc…) or volunteers for site projects.
I think Staff will want to decide by itself who is qualified.
You're proposing to create offices left, right and centre here and you can spare only 1 Tribune?
Also can you explain the last sentence?
CURIA ASSEMBLY Patrician Class Only
Member are admitted by being patronized for Formal Citizenship by a current Patrician or Senator or being recognize (rewarded) with a large award.
Nothing to note here.
SENATEMust meet requirements and approval of Senators
- Citizen for at least 6 months
- Have not received a moderation warning or Curial Warning for the past 9 months.
- Patronize at least 3 members for citizenship and/ or successfully proposed at least 1 members for a large award and/ or successfully proposed at least 3 members for either small or medium awards.
- Participate in or vote in in at least 50% or more of Curia elections and decisions.
- Have exemplary behavioral record and sound community attitude.
- Served multiple terms (TBD) as an officer of TWC.
Sounds like a CdeC 2.0 really. I don't really see the use of this but I can live with an extra layer of roleplay.
Participate in or vote in in at least 50% or more of Curia elections and decisions.
How would this be measured? And wouldn't it be unnecessarily hard to keep track of all of this.
- Have exemplary behavioral record and sound community attitude.
Is this intentionally vague? All above criteria are exact and then there's this. What is an exemplary behavioural record? You've already got a criterium that excludes people who've recently received an infraction so what is the use of this? One would also assume that people who wish to engage in this roleplay have a pretty good community attitude, of which I'm also curious how you determine wether or not one has a sound community attitude.
What's the use of taking some priviliges away from all citizens and giving them to a select group of citizens?
DETAILS OF POSITIONS
Why only one Tribune? All offices except for Curator have more than one officer, with the Curator having assistents to make up for that.
I have the feeling you made this one for yourself.
Last edited by lolIsuck; February 24, 2016 at 04:57 PM.
Reason: Pike uses too much formatting
People in general have expressed that they dislike the bureaucracy that surrounds the curia, so your solution to improve the curia and make more people want to participate in it is to add extra layers of bureaucracy?!?!
Under the patronage of Roman_Man#3, Patron of Ishan Click for my tools and tutorials
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." -----Albert Einstein
Who is and who isn't suitable for a site staff role is no business of the Curia.
500% agree
Originally Posted by Squid
People in general have expressed that they dislike the bureaucracy that surrounds the curia, so your solution to improve the curia and make more people want to participate in it is to add extra layers of bureaucracy?!?!
Last time (not that long ago) I said for the same discussion:
Originally Posted by Lifthrasir
Most of the people still active in the Curia agree that it's time to simplify it to make it more attractive for potential or futur Citizens. Despite the fact that I agree with the arguments presented by the others in this thread (except GotR), I just can't see how this proposal can simplify the Curia organization.
And I got this answer:
It doesn't add any bureaucratic task that doesn't already exist. The only real difference is increasing the role and numbers of Censors.
To my knowledge there is less opf a problem with motivation to become a citizen and more of a problem of motivating people to patronize.
I also never claim that it will simplify things.... but it may make things more interesting and fun. Removing the distinction of citizenship would do nothing to help the site. This system would at the very least create a buzz thus awareness of.
I leave that to your appreciation.
Last edited by Lifthrasir; February 24, 2016 at 05:02 PM.
Under the patronage of Flinn, proud patron of Jadli, from the Heresy Vault of the Imperial House of Hader
My problem with this: what will this eventually accomplish if it was somehow implemented in the first place?
The curia barely gets anything reasonable or useful done as is beyond awarding shiny things. No amount of reform as it currently stands is going to turn the curia into something that actually does anything remotely useful to site staff or the greater modding community.
That is the problem with the curia now. Being useless. My prime recent example? This. No replies (despite 500+ views) and pretty much no citizens giving feedback beyond those who probably already knew about it from other channels in the first place. The curia puts plenty of effort into reformation discussion and whatnot but can't be bothered with something like that to help staff and the site as a whole.
Call me when the curia gets its head out of its arse please.
Last edited by Hader; February 24, 2016 at 02:45 PM.
My problem with this: what will this eventually accomplish if it was somehow implemented in the first place?
The curia barely gets anything reasonable or useful done as is beyond awarding shiny things. No amount of reform as it currently stands is going to turn the curia into something that actually does anything remotely useful to site staff or the greater modding community.
That is the problem with the curia now. Being useless. My prime recent example? This. No replies and pretty much no citizens giving feedback beyond those who probably already knew about it from other channels in the first place. The curia puts plenty of effort into reformation discussion and whatnot but can't be bothered with something like that to help staff and the site as a whole.
Call me when the curia gets its head out of its arse please.
I noticed your "This" at the time, had a look and saw that it was about things I don't know anything about. Thus there was no sense in reacting.
Also in my view there is no such thing as "the Curia". There is a group of very different individuals that (occasionally) participate in various "Curia activities". I can't speak for others, but my main motivation to be active here is that I like this community and I think that "awarding shiny things" as you describe it, is actually beneficial to the spirit of said community.
As for helping the site, or the greater modding community, I think I'm busy enough doing that outside of the Curia. There is only that much time one can spend here and to me it makes no difference where exactly I contribute what. Besides that, there has to be at least some fun involved to keep going. Remarks about putting heads where the sun doesn't shine and waiting for the moment those heads make it back to the light again are not helping to keep me motivated to go on.
Citizenised by Shankbot - Patron of b0Gia - House de Bodemloze
Also in my view there is no such thing as "the Curia". There is a group of very different individuals that (occasionally) participate in various "Curia activities". I can't speak for others, but my main motivation to be active here is that I like this community and I think that "awarding shiny things" as you describe it, is actually beneficial to the spirit of said community.
I agree with loli. 1 year is far too long and 500 posts are not easy for most. Make it available to full members.
Qualified to serve as staff members (e.g. Moderators, Vault staff and Librarian, etc…) or volunteers for site projects.
Current requirements to join the Librarian staff is to be a full member and pass Hex's checks and they will stay that way until we or the admins decide otherwise. It will be a cold day in hell before the Curia or "the constitution" has a say in who joins and who doesn't join the Script.
It will be a cold day in hell before the Curia or "the constitution" has a say in who joins and who doesn't join the Script.
Current temperatures in Hell, Norway and Hell, Michigan are 1 and 0 degrees respectively according to google so the conditions seem about right for that.
Current temperatures in Hell, Norway and Hell, Michigan are 1 and 0 degrees respectively according to google so the conditions seem about right for that.
Librarian hell is located within the nations of Burkina Faso due to its literacy rate and as of now it is about 80 degrees F.
Last edited by Riverknight; February 24, 2016 at 05:27 PM.
I think I'd personally go and light a big fire in either Hell, Norway or Hell, Michigan to raise the temperature there if that is enough to prevent some silly bureaucratic Curial detour for prospective staffers.
Whatever the Curia's task/job/purpose/whathaveyou may be, impeding, delaying and overcomplicating things should be none of it. Unfortunately the Curia has a tradition in just these things. It is on us to remedy that.
"Non i titoli illustrano gli uomini, ma gli uomini i titoli." - Niccolo Machiavelli, Discorsi
"Du musst die Sterne und den Mond enthaupten, und am besten auch den Zar. Die Gestirne werden sich behaupten, aber wahrscheinlich nicht der Zar." - Einstürzende Neubauten, Weil, Weil, Weil
On an eternal crusade for reason, logics, catholicism and chocolate. Mostly chocolate, though.
Current temperatures in Hell, Norway and Hell, Michigan are 1 and 0 degrees respectively according to google so the conditions seem about right for that.
I have to say I really surprise at how well received it was taken. I also like how members who generally do not post decided to comment.
Originally Posted by mishkin
Oppose.
Full access to all full users or nothing.
I would not be opposed to this. I would also not be opposed to reducing the requirement to something far less.
"Member of staff or 250 posts and 3 months membership" or something like that.
Originally Posted by lolIsuck
Why? Why not give it to every full member? Or at least those in good standing.
You're proposing to create offices left, right and centre here and you can spare only 1 Tribune?
Also can you explain the last sentence?
Yes that one packs a punch! There is also no exclusion for the use of assistance.
Originally Posted by lolIsuck
Sounds like a CdeC 2.0 really. I don't really see the use of this but I can live with an extra layer of roleplay.
It is based off of the old Patrician Class, but I can see what you mean.
Originally Posted by lolIsuck
How would this be measured? And wouldn't it be unnecessarily hard to keep track of all of this.
It is actually explained in the proposal thread on a related concept. Basically, you apply by detailing your participation.
Originally Posted by lolIsuck
Is this intentionally vague? All above criteria are exact and then there's this. What is an exemplary behavioural record? You've already got a criterium that excludes people who've recently received an infraction so what is the use of this? One would also assume that people who wish to engage in this roleplay have a pretty good community attitude, of which I'm also curious how you determine wether or not one has a sound community attitude.
Yes, it was meant to be a basis of everything I included. It should had been excluded or mentioned first as a "thesis statement."
Originally Posted by lolIsuck
What's the use of taking some priviliges away from all citizens and giving them to a select group of citizens?
I didn't take any powers away. The Senate is more of an oversight committee than wielder of real power. The power is still within the two lower assemblies.
Originally Posted by lolIsuck
I have the feeling you made this one for yourself.
Given I am always on the losing end of any Constitutional debate, I doubt it...LOL
Originally Posted by Tango12345
Who is and who isn't suitable for a site staff role is no business of the Curia.
Sorry, that was my note of who would make up that group.
Originally Posted by Hader
My problem with this: what will this eventually accomplish if it was somehow implemented in the first place?
The curia barely gets anything reasonable or useful done as is beyond awarding shiny things. No amount of reform as it currently stands is going to turn the curia into something that actually does anything remotely useful to site staff or the greater modding community.
That is the problem with the curia now. Being useless. My prime recent example? This. No replies (despite 500+ views) and pretty much no citizens giving feedback beyond those who probably already knew about it from other channels in the first place
You received 29 responses. There were not all citizens, but who to say a non- citizen didn't see it in the Curia and then followed your link. It is pretty presumptuous to believe that your post in te Curia had no effect. I personally didn't respond, because it isn't anything I am interested in or have the time to participate in.
Originally Posted by Hader
The curia puts plenty of effort into reformation discussion and whatnot but can't be bothered with something like that to help staff and the site as a whole.
It can be argued that there is a leadership void with the lack of the CdeC. (Granted it wasn't technically a leadership, but it often were a center piece of discussion and action).
It is hoped that by extending a medium in which "non0 citizens" can interact it will promote more action and service to the community. The existence itself would help raise awareness of a greater community.
Originally Posted by Doctor Shuu
Current requirements to join the Librarian staff is to be a full member and pass Hex's checks and they will stay that way until we or the admins decide otherwise. It will be a cold day in hell before the Curia or "the constitution" has a say in who joins and who doesn't join the Script.
Yes, I could fix it. However, I think they needs to be a minimal. I figure I start high and work down to a reasonable level of participation.
edit: I reduce the time frame. 250 pots in 3 months or 500 points in 6 months comes to 2.8 posts a day. 500 posts in 3 months is 5.6 posts a day. I am thinking maybe 250/300 posts in a three months or a member of staff. Then again,.. what about modders? Maybe the citizenship current requirement would be better suited: 2 Months and 50 posts.
Last edited by PikeStance; February 24, 2016 at 08:50 PM.
Pike Gone Crazy [Total Overhaul]
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Originally Posted by PikeStance
