Rally Point: Starting location confirmed; all Lords start the same *yawn*

[Karnil Vark Khaitan]

Alternatively, if this is such a huge issue that can't be worked around, there's no requirement that the second lord be Gelt. It could have been one of the other elector counts who would then start where he should. But wait, I forgot, that would probably require some actual effort because then you'd have to make a few new units.

personally I don't get Gelt, and no Age of sigmar didn't help -.-'
I think the only reason they took him was to create some variety for those 2 lords.
But yes a easy choice would have been Maruis Leifdorf.

[Markas]

blind fanboyism?

Ah yes, the old fall-back of those unable to adequately debate their position 'ur just a fanboy'. Pathetic.

TW games have not had different starting positions ever for single factions ever. They never said they would put them in and I do not see how it would in any way enhance the game considering it wouldn't make sense lore-wise for some factions and would only really affect one faction anyway. It's just an invented strawman of a complaint for the sake of it.

[Karnil Vark Khaitan]

TW games have not had different starting positions ever for single factions ever.......

MATE! these two dorfs lords aren't part of the same faction!
We have just spent two pages talking about it!
They are 2 separate holds! which is two separate factions so to speak.

please understand, I don't want to go in circles.

and yes don't call names, it is silly and I been called it before.

[Vanders]

Ah yes, the old fall-back of those unable to adequately debate their position 'ur just a fanboy'. Pathetic.

TW games have not had different starting positions ever for single factions ever. They never said they would put them in and I do not see how it would in any way enhance the game considering it wouldn't make sense lore-wise for some factions and would only really affect one faction anyway. It's just an invented strawman of a complaint for the sake of it.

This is not like other Total War games. In what other TW games have we had magical creatures and magic. Contribute to the discussion rather than making such an effort to turn a great idea into nothing but people complaining.

[Clone1710]

MATE! these two dorfs lords aren't part of the same faction!
We have just spent two pages talking about it!
They are 2 separate holds! which is two separate factions so to speak.

please understand, I don't want to go in circles.

and yes don't call names, it is silly and I been called it before.

Well, we only have one army book for dwarfs lorewise where you can put both the slayer-king and Thorgrim in the same army, so I don't think you SHOULD consider it two different factions. You COULD, of course, but honestly, this doesn't really bother me.

[keldor]

Well, we only have one army book for dwarfs lorewise where you can put both the slayer-king and Thorgrim in the same army, so I don't think you SHOULD consider it two different factions. You COULD, of course, but honestly, this doesn't really bother me.

Imagine if they made all the elector counts playable. But they all started in the same city. Just because its one faction the empire. That would be stupid.

[Karnil Vark Khaitan]

Well, we only have one army book for dwarfs lorewise where you can put both the slayer-king and Thorgrim in the same army, so I don't think you SHOULD consider it two different factions. You COULD, of course, but honestly, this doesn't really bother me.

True but for the book it is presenting a race or culture (as brets and empire but they different culture), never really faction as they are presented in lore. (GW sadly gave up on that a long time ago sadly)
The same reason why you can field both lords in the same army, but it does make the slayer king less a king as what they are currently doing in this game.
And dorfs holds are independent from each other, only to unite in case of war or greater treat.

I just don't think CA should get away with it this easy, for sakes of Co-op and lore.

Ahhh I just remembered the old Vampire count"s" book which had all 4 different trait of vampires in the book, which all played different.
Strigoi had mostly ghouls and human units, and so on, it was a great army book. ^^

[GatoVolador]

Ah yes, the old fall-back of those unable to adequately debate their position 'ur just a fanboy'. Pathetic.

TW games have not had different starting positions ever for single factions ever. They never said they would put them in and I do not see how it would in any way enhance the game considering it wouldn't make sense lore-wise for some factions and would only really affect one faction anyway. It's just an invented strawman of a complaint for the sake of it.

CA made a point of remarking that we get different races, NOT different factions. So what are the different lords representing, if not factions?

[Sharpe]

I think I have missed the point here - why are people complaining about confirmed starting positions? This had always been a feature of TW games...

[keldor]

I think I have missed the point here - why are people complaining about confirmed starting positions? This had always been a feature of TW games...

I also think you missed reading everything between the first post and your post. If I am wrong, then it seems, you're not attempting to understand the situation. There are multiple reasons, comparisons, explanations.

The way they made the lords in this game. Is not the same as previous titles. Which created this starting position problem. The Dwarfen race for example. As previously told just a handful of posts above. Each hold or dwarf city. Is independent and has its own king. Kinda like greek-city states. Again like someone previously said; imagine picking Sparta and you end up starting in Athens.

Replace the two Dwarf lords with the Sparta and Athens. Then you will understand why people are upset.

[Sharpe]

But aren't they fighting for the same race? For the dwarves? Don't you control the entire race?

Or do you fight other dwarves?

I know nothing about warhammer. Except for spesh murines. Are they what the Empire become?

Also, for someone who doesn't care about the lore and what not - is this going to be a problem?

I mean it looks cool, a bit cooky, but pretty gritty too.

[Markas]

MATE! these two dorfs lords aren't part of the same faction!
We have just spent two pages talking about it!
They are 2 separate holds! which is two separate factions so to speak.

please understand, I don't want to go in circles.

and yes don't call names, it is silly and I been called it before.

They are not separate factions, as they are both representing the same one. The reason for the two Legendary Lords is to have separate Quest Chains and give unique faction-wide bonuses. As I've stated repeatedly, it only makes sense for the Orcs and a little for the Dwarves. It just isn't relevant for the races as a whole. I don't see why people think this feature should be in anymore than the implementation of naval battles- it just isn't needed. I really don't see how it enhances the game.

This is not like other Total War games. In what other TW games have we had magical creatures and magic. Contribute to the discussion rather than making such an effort to turn a great idea into nothing but people complaining.

Well come up with a better argument then other than 'it should be just because I wanted it.'

[Tomon Ris]

But aren't they fighting for the same race? For the dwarves? Don't you control the entire race?

Or do you fight other dwarves?

I know nothing about warhammer. Except for spesh murines. Are they what the Empire become?

Each of the dwarf holds will be independent from what they have shown us. So you won't control the whole race Presumably you will unite them by doing quests.

[Vanders]

They are not separate factions, as they are both representing the same one. The reason for the two Legendary Lords is to have separate Quest Chains and give unique faction-wide bonuses. As I've stated repeatedly, it only makes sense for the Orcs and a little for the Dwarves. It just isn't relevant for the races as a whole. I don't see why people think this feature should be in anymore than the implementation of naval battles- it just isn't needed. I really don't see how it enhances the game.



Well come up with a better argument then other than 'it should be just because I wanted it.'

It enhances the game by providing a little more replayability and, most importantly, means people can play the same faction in coop. Not only that, but it enhances the game from a lore standpoint as well which has already been pointed out in this thread along with the two points I just mentioned so I will not reiterate in detail.

This isn't some silly complaint for the sake of complaining, it is a legitimate concern that you don't care about but others do. THFE Productions did a video about it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MuxUbxFnr0.

[GatoVolador]

They are not separate factions, as they are both representing the same one. The reason for the two Legendary Lords is to have separate Quest Chains and give unique faction-wide bonuses. As I've stated repeatedly, it only makes sense for the Orcs and a little for the Dwarves. It just isn't relevant for the races as a whole. I don't see why people think this feature should be in anymore than the implementation of naval battles- it just isn't needed. I really don't see how it enhances the game.



Well come up with a better argument then other than 'it should be just because I wanted it.'

Again, and stop ignoring the arguments against your position, CA has stated multiple times that we don't have factions as in other TW. We have races. That was the answer they gave back when people complaint about the game only having 4 factions, they said "it's not 4 factions, it's 4 races. And each one will be really deep"

So they oppened up the assumption that the different legendary lords would be like the traditional TW factions, a.k.a each have their own unique starting position. So stop this "it's just like every other faction in every total war ever". It's not.

If each legendary lord has a different victory condition, that further remarks that they are not fighting for the same thing. In earhammer lore and TT there is racewide in-fighting too. Just like rome had different greek factions and different successor states, all battling for their own things.
As others stated before, imagine starting a campaign as Sparta in Athens and having to conquer sparta, cuz they all greeks. Or starting a campaign as seleukidai in alexandria cuz, ya'know, it's the same.

[Abdülmecid I]

I think I have missed the point here - why are people complaining about confirmed starting positions? This had always been a feature of TW games...

The problem is that when Warhammer was announced, Will claimed that the Empire, the Vampire Counts, the Greenskins and the Dwarfs will be "races", with every legendary lord being the leader of the respective faction included within each race. The post in question:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Don't think factions, think races. In Total War: WARHAMMER you’ll have four races to choose from, Greenskins, The Empire, Dwarfs and Vampire Counts. Each race has a legendary lord character , who is the leader of a faction within your chosen race.

Honestly, I was immediately reminded of the Carthaginian and Roman families, which made me think that CA was just trying to prevent anyone from getting frustrated over the small number of playable races/factions, but, on the other hand, I can see why people feel disappointed or manipulated by CA's statements.

[nosuchname]

its like spartans having the same starting position as athens because they are both greeks

[Yayattasa]

Don't see the point really, why make it like that?

[citizen-ychoux]

Too bad we lost 2 weeks of this very interesting debate.

I'll try to sum it up from my point of view. Of course I'm an apologist fanboy paid by CA who doesn't know a thing about WHFB.

[DavidtheDuke]

Too bad we lost 2 weeks of this very interesting debate.

I'll try to sum it up from my point of view. Of course I'm an apologist fanboy paid by CA who doesn't know a thing about WHFB.

I'm a fan of TW and WHFB. I don't like the decision but it's not a complete travesty. People just whigging out over things that probably can be modded over anyway. I was more concerned about the 20 unit limit and CA reversed that decision luckily.