Could this be made for Fall of the Samurai too?

**Mr Kriegtooth** · October 31, 2015, 04:34 PM

That would be a totally wild project, but ive been playing FOTS, and thought of it

Im not sure how far the map goes, as I said im not good with Asian geography at all, but it could cover the Opium Wars, the Taiping Rebellion, and even on up to the Russo-Japanese War, if Russia could be included. Britain could be on the map if it includes Hong Kong or some other place where the British were settled

It might would be too massive, but I believe that European troops of the time are well documented, and it was getting into the age of same uniforms and same weapons

Osprey, my favourite history book company, is coming out with a book on the last of the Imperial Chinese armies next year too, so im guessing the troops of that time are also well documented!

And well, the Japanese ones are already there for the most part!

and of course, Rise of the Samurai could benefit from a massive map too, live out the original Mongol Invasions!

**uanime5** · November 01, 2015, 09:13 AM

Originally Posted by Mr Kriegtooth

Im not sure how far the map goes, as I said im not good with Asian geography at all, but it could cover the Opium Wars, the Taiping Rebellion, and even on up to the Russo-Japanese War, if Russia could be included. Britain could be on the map if it includes Hong Kong or some other place where the British were settled

I'd have to completely remake the map to include Russia because of how far north it is.

Giving Britain Hong Kong would make the entire British Empire a one region faction. I'd need to include at least India to make an accurate representation.

And well, the Japanese ones are already there for the most part!

But not the Korean, Chinese, Russian ones.

Rise of the Samurai could benefit from a massive map too, live out the original Mongol Invasions!

The Mongol invasions were in 1274 and 1281. The RotS mod would have to be set much earlier to include them.

**Mr Kriegtooth** · November 02, 2015, 03:37 AM

I thought Rise of the Samurai ended in the early 1200s? It would require indepth research of mid to late 1200s Japan.....

Well, cant help that for Russia, but Britain being a one faction region would make sense I think. Its not to represent the British Empire as a whole, just the British in Hong Kong. Ive seen other mods do things like that, where a farther away nation that was important, or just interesting at the time, has a "outpost" region in the mod, so that its playable and you can carry out what if scenarios and such. At least I dont mind it anyway

In fact, just crazy brainstorming, but if you could do this and modify the clan modernisation feature to function differently for different factions, it could be made to represent Imperial involvement, and let you research more advanced tech(representing the British forces getting more material and such), and possibly even give new armies of special troops, to represent the Empire as a whole sending more troops to the war

I do imagine it'd be a lot of hard work though, if not impossible. But damn that'd be awesome, a special Morning Sun campaign for each of the original campaigns!

**uanime5** · November 02, 2015, 02:14 PM

Originally Posted by Mr Kriegtooth

I thought Rise of the Samurai ended in the early 1200s? It would require indepth research of mid to late 1200s Japan.....

I was talking to someone about another mod in 1351, so I thought RotS was set in this time period. RotS ends in 1219 so it ends about 60 years too early for the Mongol invasions of Japan.

Also Japan was united under the Hojo clan during this period there won't be much for anyone playing as Japan to do.

Well, cant help that for Russia, but Britain being a one faction region would make sense I think. Its not to represent the British Empire as a whole, just the British in Hong Kong. Ive seen other mods do things like that, where a farther away nation that was important, or just interesting at the time, has a "outpost" region in the mod, so that its playable and you can carry out what if scenarios and such. At least I dont mind it anyway

Being a one region faction means Britain can be defeated very easily and will have trouble building up a large army or navy. It would be a waste of a faction to represent Britain this way.

In fact, just crazy brainstorming, but if you could do this and modify the clan modernisation feature to function differently for different factions, it could be made to represent Imperial involvement, and let you research more advanced tech(representing the British forces getting more material and such), and possibly even give new armies of special troops, to represent the Empire as a whole sending more troops to the war

Something that won't work if this faction only has one region, as once this region is conquered Britain will cease to exist as a faction. Britain needs India to provide the manpower and economy needed to fight China.

**Mr Kriegtooth** · November 02, 2015, 04:22 PM

Ah! But like the factions in other mods that are similar to my idea, the British faction there would be boosted in some way as to make it less vulnerable to an early rush, and given enough time to become a CPU major player

Early advanced fortifications, an extra wealthy region, starting powerful army, so forth so on. Possibly split Hong Kong into a couple regions if possible

Further more, need to really get all timelines together and do my own research, but I might would have China divided into multiple factions to represent the Taiping Rebelllion and subsequent problems. Sooo, I think a boosted British Empire faction could work, even with one region

As for a Mongol Invasion campaign for ROTS, I'd say to just make the Hojo the most powerful, and other clans could be shown as their vassals, to represent unification. I feel like vassals and protectorates in Empire onward represents puppet and subservient states pretty well. At least good enough with the power of imagination!

**uanime5** · November 03, 2015, 05:00 PM

Originally Posted by Mr Kriegtooth

Ah! But like the factions in other mods that are similar to my idea, the British faction there would be boosted in some way as to make it less vulnerable to an early rush, and given enough time to become a CPU major player

Early advanced fortifications, an extra wealthy region, starting powerful army, so forth so on. Possibly split Hong Kong into a couple regions if possible

That would involve making Hong Kong inaccurate simply to include a faction. Even if this region was rich, well fortified, and had a large garrison it could still be overwhelmed by China because China will be able to recruit several armies in the time it takes Britain to recruit one army. You cannot make a one region faction balanced against a faction that will have 50-90 regions simply without completely unbalancing this mod.

Further more, need to really get all timelines together and do my own research, but I might would have China divided into multiple factions to represent the Taiping Rebelllion and subsequent problems. Sooo, I think a boosted British Empire faction could work, even with one region

The Taiping Rebelllion only controlled a small part of China, so China will still be a huge faction. The regions it controlled are also near Hong Kong, so the Taiping rebels may also destroy Britain.

As for a Mongol Invasion campaign for ROTS, I'd say to just make the Hojo the most powerful, and other clans could be shown as their vassals, to represent unification. I feel like vassals and protectorates in Empire onward represents puppet and subservient states pretty well. At least good enough with the power of imagination!

That will mean that anyone playing as Hojo will either need to start several civil wars to boost the number of regions they have or do nothing until the Mongols are able to invade Japan. From a gameplay perspective representing Hojo as one faction will be more enjoyable than splitting it into multiple factions.

**Mr Kriegtooth** · November 03, 2015, 05:14 PM

How hard would it be to redo the regions on the map, to cut off sections, or just resize them so theres fewer regions?

Oh well, its all just ideas

You have to admit, it would be something to see, and fill a gaping hole in the mod and total war scene!

Edit: As for Rise of the Samurai, maybe the Hojo could be reprented as a leader faction? Sort of like the Papal States in Medieval 2. I cant imagine that throughout their unification, that no clans fought....

Edit 2: Oh, and just to say further, I have seen the AI in the Total War games be incredibly inconsistant. I just played Fall of the Samurai with DarthMod, and the main imperial enemy wasnt any major clan, it was Hiroshima, which became the Hiroshima Imperial Vanguard. In Empire Vanilla, I always noticed that Savoy often defeated France and became a major nation. In Stainless Steel for Medieval 2, I used to fuss about wanting Ireland, and replace the Cumans, since the Cumans NEVER did anything in my campaigns, but for other people, they'd...do something!

Soooo, I'd imagine the AI might would just ignore a one or two region "British Empire" or instantly consume it

And, I wish to apologize in case I seem argumenative. Just hashing out ideas.

**uanime5** · November 04, 2015, 02:46 PM

Originally Posted by Mr Kriegtooth

How hard would it be to redo the regions on the map, to cut off sections, or just resize them so theres fewer regions?

I can easily disable some region but making China smaller will just lead to it being misrepresented.

Edit: As for Rise of the Samurai, maybe the Hojo could be reprented as a leader faction? Sort of like the Papal States in Medieval 2. I cant imagine that throughout their unification, that no clans fought....

You mean like the Ashikaga clan in Shogun 2. That still has all the problems I mentioned, such as being unable to control more region without starting a civil war.

Also the Hojo clan didn't unify Japan, as it was already united. After the 1221 Jōkyū War the Hojo clan set up a regency that ruled Japan.

Edit 2: Oh, and just to say further, I have seen the AI in the Total War games be incredibly inconsistant. I just played Fall of the Samurai with DarthMod, and the main imperial enemy wasnt any major clan, it was Hiroshima, which became the Hiroshima Imperial Vanguard. In Empire Vanilla, I always noticed that Savoy often defeated France and became a major nation. In Stainless Steel for Medieval 2, I used to fuss about wanting Ireland, and replace the Cumans, since the Cumans NEVER did anything in my campaigns, but for other people, they'd...do something!

Soooo, I'd imagine the AI might would just ignore a one or two region "British Empire" or instantly consume it

In ETW France was a two region faction so it could be conquered fairly easily. I suspect this was why NTW didn't use one large region to represent a country.

Also in your examples they feature a multiple clans of similar size, rather than a case where one faction had 50-90 times more regions than another faction. While Britain might be able to survive as a one region faction it's more likely that it will be quickly crushed.

**Stincky** · November 04, 2015, 07:55 PM

Originally Posted by Mr Kriegtooth

I thought Rise of the Samurai ended in the early 1200s? It would require indepth research of mid to late 1200s Japan.....

Well, cant help that for Russia, but Britain being a one faction region would make sense I think. Its not to represent the British Empire as a whole, just the British in Hong Kong. Ive seen other mods do things like that, where a farther away nation that was important, or just interesting at the time, has a "outpost" region in the mod, so that its playable and you can carry out what if scenarios and such. At least I dont mind it anyway

In fact, just crazy brainstorming, but if you could do this and modify the clan modernisation feature to function differently for different factions, it could be made to represent Imperial involvement, and let you research more advanced tech(representing the British forces getting more material and such), and possibly even give new armies of special troops, to represent the Empire as a whole sending more troops to the war

I do imagine it'd be a lot of hard work though, if not impossible. But damn that'd be awesome, a special Morning Sun campaign for each of the original campaigns!

as far as rots during the hojo shikken then itd be a lot of cadet branches from hojo.... something like 55 out of 65 provinces. Which is why im coming up with a time frame for the "foggy" period in Japanese history- still thinking on time frame as I hate to have wrong info- 1351 or 1364-65 the latter is after tadayoshi is poisoned by his brother and the ashikaga cadet branches are not on same page-- takauji faction and tadayoshi faction. I liked what taiheiki did in so far as having factions as southern court. Anyway other thoughts are welcomed--

**Mr Kriegtooth** · November 05, 2015, 04:36 AM

I just had a thought, I never played the original Shogun Total War. What was the Mongol Invasion expansion pack for it like? How was Japan represented? That could be a good thought point for a Rise of the Samurai style campaign. It was porbably inaccurate, or one faction Japan, but could be a good starting point.

One for that might be more easy in creation actually, I'd imagine that Japanese soldiers of the late 1200s werent much different than the early 1200s. Only the Mongols would need to be redone, maybe, and other factions in the area

More possible solutions for a hypothetical British Hong Kong in a late 1800s campaign.....

What was the political situation like for the British and Chinese at certain times that might make a good start? Could be possible to have them in alliance or just good relations(the Shogun 2 AI seems pretty decent about not backstabbing), and have the starts of wars be scripted. Otherwise, possibly surround Hong Kong with factions that are vassal to the main China faction. With the AI ive seen, as long as theres good enough relations, declaring or being declared war upon, allies wont join. At least with Darth Mod(at this point I refuse to play vanilla any total war! XD)

More fun thoughts for it, that might work for a Morning Sun based map, or just a fancy Fall of the Samurai mod....The Republic of Ezo might would be a cool faction to play as. They were the last(as I understand it) of imperial resistance, Shogunate supporters who formed a Republic for Samurai on Hokkaido.

**uanime5** · November 05, 2015, 02:21 PM

Originally Posted by Mr Kriegtooth

I just had a thought, I never played the original Shogun Total War. What was the Mongol Invasion expansion pack for it like? How was Japan represented? That could be a good thought point for a Rise of the Samurai style campaign. It was porbably inaccurate, or one faction Japan, but could be a good starting point.

It was a series of custom battles representing a what-if scenario. specifically what if the second Mongol invasion wasn't destroyed by the kamikaze. As the Mongols only have a limited number of units you'll lose the battle if too many Mongol units die.

What was the political situation like for the British and Chinese at certain times that might make a good start? Could be possible to have them in alliance or just good relations(the Shogun 2 AI seems pretty decent about not backstabbing), and have the starts of wars be scripted.

While this will prevent both sides fighting early in the campaign it still doesn't change the fact that China will still be 50-90 times larger the Britain. So the same problems will occur during the middle of the game.

This problem isn't something you can fix with a few tweaks, it requires major changes. If you want to represent Britain accurately this campaign would require a new map that includes China, India, French Indochina, and every country in between. You can't represent Britain with one region any more than you can represent China or Japan with one region.

Otherwise, possibly surround Hong Kong with factions that are vassal to the main China faction. With the AI ive seen, as long as theres good enough relations, declaring or being declared war upon, allies wont join. At least with Darth Mod(at this point I refuse to play vanilla any total war! XD)

This would be ahistorical and once Britain starts conquering these regions they'll have a border with China, negating the effect of these border regions.

The main problem with your solutions is that they only provide a short term solution but in the long term the same problems remain (how is Britain mean to win against such a huge faction). Any campaign featuring China, Korea, and Japan during this period would be better if it focuses on the Taiping Rebellion (1850–64), Dungan Revolt (1862–77), Boshin War (1868-1869), and First Sino_Japanese war (1895) because all faction can be accurately represented just with China, Japan, and Korea.

More fun thoughts for it, that might work for a Morning Sun based map, or just a fancy Fall of the Samurai mod....The Republic of Ezo might would be a cool faction to play as. They were the last(as I understand it) of imperial resistance, Shogunate supporters who formed a Republic for Samurai on Hokkaido.

In Expanded Japan and Morning Sun 1 there is a faction in Hokkaido but I removed it in Morning Sun 2 due to the region limit.

**Mr Kriegtooth** · November 05, 2015, 04:18 PM

Ah true, maybe if it could be done, just focus on the Asian factions. Plus Britain would take up a playable campaign spot, and its not possible to properly have survive against the surrounding regions, it'd only be good for extreme difficulty

**Aoikaze** · November 06, 2015, 07:33 AM

Originally Posted by uanime5

It was a series of custom battles representing a what-if scenario. specifically what if the second Mongol invasion wasn't destroyed by the kamikaze. As the Mongols only have a limited number of units you'll lose the battle if too many Mongol units die.

I'm pretty sure there was a campaign mode for the Mongol invasions in the expansion of the first Shogun Total War. If I recall correctly, the Hojo start off in control of all of Japan, but do not have any buildings or troops built. The Mongol invasion then occurs on the next few turns, with the invasion portrayed as a full stack Mongol army. As the Hojo won't have anything built up by then, the Mongols will easily steamroll through their first set of provinces. For the Hojo, it then becomes a game of space vs. time, as you build up infrastructure and units to deal with the Mongol threat. While you can't train arquebus troops, there was a crossbow unit that you were able to train.

Alternatively, you could actually play as the Mongols, and steamroll through Japan. I think their only way to get troops was to wait for a shipment back from the mainland (which was represented by another full stack army landing on northern Kyushu)

**Derpy Hooves** · February 27, 2016, 10:17 AM

What about just doing a Morning Sun 1.0 for FOTS? It'd be interesting to start a bloody war over there

**Stincky** · February 27, 2016, 12:21 PM

Sign me up if you guys wanna do pre-gempei....thats all new units...lotsa Minamoto and Taira. (I think after we do this 1351 then we'll all be sick of Uesugi in same fashion)..and lastly gotta make...ahistorical fantasy units as they were so steeped at that time..real or not-

**Lord Oda Nobunaga** · February 29, 2016, 06:04 PM

I suppose someone can just make Chinese, French and Russian units and just play custom battles. That way you could reenact the Sino-French War, Sino-Japaese War and Russo-Japanese War.

**mhawari** · May 06, 2016, 03:43 AM

can someone tell me what is CS2 file, and where i can find it?

**uanime5** · May 07, 2016, 12:38 PM

Originally Posted by mhawari

can someone tell me what is CS2 file, and where i can find it?

CS2 files are the files the modding tool BOB uses to create unit parts. If you have 3D Max 2090 or 2010, and the plugin from the modding tools you can make them.