What is your Roma army compositions throughout your campaign?

[Malchron]

I was just wondering since in Vanilla rome 2 I just usually had 10 or so praetorians and sweeped across anything. Got really boring real fast so I started on DEI today and its vastly different. So what unit comps are you all using throughout the duration of your game?

[Morgan]

By the time I hit the Marian reforms I begin the process of formalising the Auxilia. So each Legion is supported by a full stack of Auxilia of that region. So Legio IV Africa and Auxilia Africa will work in tandem, but I make it so that Auxilia Africa can only recruit units from North Africa (Mauretania to Aegyptus). The artillery isn't normally added until at least the Polybian reforms, and even then it is normally only the Ballista, the Scorpio's normally arrive later.

Legion Army Composition:
Camillian and Polybian:
(General) + 2 Equites + 4 Principes + 4 Hastati + 2 Triarii + 1 Ballista + 2 Scorpio + 4 Velites

Marian:
(General) + 2 Ala Legionaria (Or Equivalent) + 1 Prima Cohort + 2 Legionarii Veterani + 7 Legionarii + 1 Ballista + 2 Scorpio + 4 (Skirmishers)

Cohorts:
(General) + 2 Equites Legionis (Or Equivalent) + Cohors Aquilae + 2 Cohors Evocata + 7 Cohors Legionaria + 1 Ballista + 2 Scorpio + 4 (Skirmishers)


Auxilia:
(General) + 4-6 Calvary + 4-8 Heavy Infantry + 2-4 Spear Infantry + 2-4 Skirmishers

[Linke]

Historical, I always use historical armis for all factions

[suras333]

This is great, but can you post a list of the armies for all factions? I'm very interested also!

[Linke]

Well for Rome the goal (I've never gotten that far in a campaign) is to have each legion be about 7-10 strong with the Unique legions mod (each legion isn't always full strength). An army is comprised of one such legion aswell as about 500 auxilia. The Legions will be deployed in their historical places. Some legions are grouped together under one army (like Mark anthony commanded two). The legions are usually grouped in threes, the most senior commander being the governor (like with Germania and the ambush by Arminius, there were three legions plus Auxilia under one commander). In Italy only army allowed is one comprised of Praetorians.


For Macedon I did something like 9 or 12 pikemen. Each Pike unit is one Syntagma 256 soldiers, Six syntagma formed a taxis, 1500 commanded by a strategos, six taxeis formed a phalanx under a phalangiarch. However my army is made up of about 10 units or 2 taxeis and commanded by one strategos. I have to make a taxis five instead of six syntagmas because of army size limitations. Some smaller armies have just one taxeis at it's core and then the rest of the troops are halfed. The rest of the 10 units are usually 3-4 cavalry (a hetairoi general, a Thessalian, a lighter greek or Thracian or Paeonian cav and sometimes another one of any of the mentioned), two units are hypaspists on the flanks (or royal peltasts), the remaining four are light skirmishers. Peltasts, normal greek Psiloi and Thracians like Agrianians are common.
Normally about 2-3 of these armies campaign in the same region representing the whole phalanx of six taxeis. One of them is the leading army (usually with the king) like with the Romans. Within the taxeis there can be elite phalangite units.


For Seleucids I have established a royal army with two taxeis of Silver shield pikemen as a standing army (the heir can have an army of one taxeis of these). Other Greek generals command between one and two taxeis of lesser pikemen, sometimes including a few bronze shields. The armies on top of that have 2-4 units of other supporting infantry, initially they are often hoplites, for the royal armies they are hypaspists and peltasts, eventually they become Thureos armed troops. The royal army also has a large cavalry guard of 2-4 elite cavalry units and a few light troops on toop of that, or elephants. The other armies have fewer cavalry, only the general is high quality, they have more skirmishers and light troops wich are almost always aor, the supporting infantry may also be aor. I have based in Syra, Mesopotamia and south Anatolia around 3-4 armies with greek supporting infantry commanded by mostly royal generals following this setup (some might be half strength).
In the satrapies the armies are based around one taxeis and local troops, often mercenaries like horse archers, kardakes (Persian hoplites). The royal armies usually operate as one (maybe leaving one behind) for a major campaign. For a smaller campaign I take the closest local armies (wich don't need to be full strength), usually 2 and have them commanded by one of the royal armies in the campaign. Two examples, I invade Egypt, 3 royal armies spearheaded by the kings own one wich is made up primarily of 12 silvershields. One of these three may be operating up in Cilicia. Or, Bactria having conquered Arachosia invades and takes over the nearest province. I send my kings army wich is aided by the armies of the satrap of Persia (including Carmania) and Parthava (including Media). The royal army is the center of the attacks and engages the greatest Bactrian forces whilst the satrapal armies are at the kings flanks, eventualy the capital may be surounded.


But to be completely honest I prefer building my own historically viable systems similar to these for factions like Bactria and Armenia (havent' tried with Bactria, yet). The reason I use only early troops in Greek armies is that I haven't played a campaign far enough to get late ones.

[Paladin247]

Malchron, I always play as Rome. I'll show you what I've found for historical composition and then what I use and why.

Historical Republican Manipular Legion
5 Hastati
5 Principes
5 Triarii or 4 with General attached to Triarii bodyguard
3 Equites or 2 with General attached to Equites bodyguard
2 Velites or skirmishers

I use the same except for one less Triarii and one more skirmisher. I also use three cavalry alae with the general's bodyguard as one of these. Depending on the enemy, I'll often drop another Triarii for a cav ala. I like the extra cavalry for mopping up. After I've won a battle, I don't want any of the survivors getting away to fight another day.

Historical Post Marian legion:

1 General
1 Eagle cohort
9 Legionary coh
4 Spear auxiliary coh
3 Skirmisher coh
2 Cavalry ala

The auxiliary/skirmisher mix was fluid based on availability, the enemy and the tactical situation, not a hard and fast roster.
I dispense with the auxiliary spearmen and fill those slots with three batteries of onagers and another cavalry ala while having the general's bodyguard mounted as well. The extra cav for reasons as above.
The onagers I haul everywhere once they become available. I've had some discussions with purists who take the view they shouldn't be used in open field battles, but I've found historical references showing they were. Plus it makes the legion dual capable for both field and siege situations. Their effectiveness vs. infantry is dependent on how tightly packed the enemy formations are. You can usually get kills along the lines of 10% of the enemy force before they close on your infantry. Against close packed, slow moving hoplite formations, I've seen numbers in the 20-25% range. They also seem to effect enemy morale and elephants hate them.

[Malchron]

Malchron, I always play as Rome. I'll show you what I've found for historical composition and then what I use and why.

Historical Republican Manipular Legion
5 Hastati
5 Principes
5 Triarii or 4 with General attached to Triarii bodyguard
3 Equites or 2 with General attached to Equites bodyguard
2 Velites or skirmishers

I use the same except for one less Triarii and one more skirmisher. I also use three cavalry alae with the general's bodyguard as one of these. Depending on the enemy, I'll often drop another Triarii for a cav ala. I like the extra cavalry for mopping up. After I've won a battle, I don't want any of the survivors getting away to fight another day.

Historical Post Marian legion:

1 General
1 Eagle cohort
9 Legionary coh
4 Spear auxiliary coh
3 Skirmisher coh
2 Cavalry ala

The auxiliary/skirmisher mix was fluid based on availability, the enemy and the tactical situation, not a hard and fast roster.
I dispense with the auxiliary spearmen and fill those slots with three batteries of onagers and another cavalry ala while having the general's bodyguard mounted as well. The extra cav for reasons as above.
The onagers I haul everywhere once they become available. I've had some discussions with purists who take the view they shouldn't be used in open field battles, but I've found historical references showing they were. Plus it makes the legion dual capable for both field and siege situations. Their effectiveness vs. infantry is dependent on how tightly packed the enemy formations are. You can usually get kills along the lines of 10% of the enemy force before they close on your infantry. Against close packed, slow moving hoplite formations, I've seen numbers in the 20-25% range. They also seem to effect enemy morale and elephants hate them.

If you don't mind answering a few more questions indepth what is your general battle strategy in DEI? Especially in a dense forest or a siege. Also how do you build up your provinces efficiently?

[ra2z]

As rome, i always make roma a finical pronvice at the start and the only place in were i can create roman units, this forces you to use the auxilarys more often. As for a ecomeny, the settlements with 3-4 harbors will always be made for commerical, and everything else will be things such as 5-10% increase to commernce " edicts will always be placed at commerical settlements for the increased income" and if you are not placing digintries in your armys, that will be the 2nd place in were you should focus them on, also, with every general, make sure your going for the traits that will give a total of -9% unit upkeep, make sure you have at least 1 general in your major finical pronvices, and your faction leader in your capital.

If your pronvince has less than 3 ports, they will focus on industry with 2 commerical ports, but make sure you have one that is based on naval units, having a strong, elite naval force makes it easyier for when you are invading capitals on the coast line, or just a way to capture undefended settlements quickly. everything else will be for producing food. easily made 20k-30k per turn by conquering the coast around spain and north africa. But you will need alot of food, so going north to conquer barbian lands will be a better idea at first, this also gives factions like egypt/sparta/ athens/ selecluids to grow large with 1/2 dominate factions in that part of the world, athens controled most of what is now modern turkey and obtained a huge land grab towards the north, making them the 2nd strongest faction right besides me. I would recoundmend the 24 turns per year submod.

[suras333]

Great, thanks!

[Samir]

I also upped the number of Armies just to be able to use Auxillary Armies in support. I try to play slow and influence the survival of certain factions by sending expeditionary forces to create client and allies around greece, gaul and spain, which usually is a certain way to gain land from legal wars, justifying later expansions in self defense.

Only exception is Massalia. I always take it, dont know why but I always expect to find Falbala there. childhood memories

[Paladin247]

I would echo ra2z comments above about how to build a strong economy. Wars cost money, lots of it, and it took me half way thru my first Dei campaign to get a handle on the income vs. food vs. recruiting troops system. In addition to their expense, troops consume a lot of food and while you can run low on money and recover, running out of food can be catastrophic.
In my last campaign, I made the mistake of accepting a lot of non-aggression and alliance pacts when offered. This is a mistake; sooner or later one of your allies will declare war on another and you'll have to decide which to support possibly being then drawn into a war you don't want while losing a trading partner in the bargain. This campaign I've gone for trading partners only and allied with no one so far. Seems to be working better.
I use the Caesar's Legions mod which I highly recommend. Once the Marian reforms hit, it gives you the ability to recruit named and numbered legions in their historical localities with individual uniform colors, shield patterns and vexilium. Once I can recruit those, I never use auxiliaries because most campaigns will end before you recruit all the legions possible without needing the auxiliaries at all.

[Meraun]

i never use more than 10 cohorts per Legion to stay historical. Usually 1 Eagle + 7 Cohorts + 2 Vet Cohorts the rest is aux + one general

I do not recruit romans units unless i have 75% cultural strengh in the province

[UsulDaNeriak]

i never use more than 10 cohorts per Legion to stay historical. Usually 1 Eagle + 7 Cohorts + 2 Vet Cohorts the rest is aux + one general

You don't need to limit yourself to 10 cohorts in total in order to stay historical.

At least for the early imperial times (until the Flavians) a legion could have 10 regulary cohort plus a vexillum veteranorum (1 perhaps sometimes 2 cohorts). Also the Evocati were not part of the regular cohorts. On the other hand Evocati had a rank above the NCOs and below a centurion and were rather used like centurions or beneficarii for special tasks and most probably never fought as a separate unit.

For the republican times, things are a bit more fuzzy. Thousands of veterans followed Scipio to Africa, but we don't know exactly how Scipio used and organized them.

So I do not feel unhistorical, if I sometimes play with 11-12 roman units plus the general.

The main question is: what is a stack representing. While a roman legion was somewhat standardized, the fighting unit of the romans was the exercitus (army). And this was pretty unstandardized and situationally composed. Sometimes I fight like Arrian against the Alani. Just a few legionary cohorts, a bunch of heavy and light auxilia and more cavalry units and archers than usual. Or if the general is the emperor or his heir, he is accompanied by some praetorian cohorts, like Germanicus was on his campaigns. Thats the only case, when my praetorians are allowed to leave Italy.

[yocheco619]

Thanks for posting this stuff to everyone. I'm going to try some of these historical compositions with battle realism mode to get more of a challenge.

[Ivan_Moscavich]

@malchron

I don't feel like this is historical at all, if you are trying to do everything with one army instead of two.
Historical Republican Manipular Legion
"5 Hastati
5 Principes
5 Triarii or 4 with General attached to Triarii bodyguard
3 Equites or 2 with General attached to Equites bodyguard
2 Velites or skirmishers"

I use the following composition for my early armies and consider it more historical than the above by far.

Camillan
2 Hastati
2 socii Hastati
2 Principes
2 Socii principes
1 triarii
1 pedites extrodinarii
1 roarii
1 camillan general body guard
1 equites
1 socii equites extrodinarii (camillan socii equites are no longer available)
2 leves
1 camillian levy slingers
1 mercenary rhodian slinger
2 mercenary Cretan archers

Polybian
2 hastati
2 socii hastati
2 principes
2 socii principes
1 triarii
1 pedites extrodinarii
2 velites
2 mercenary Cretan archers
2 mercenary baelric slingers (or 1 Balearic and 1 rhodian)
1 roman senators bodyguard
1 equites
1 socii equites
1 socii equites extrodinarii

Marian
1 first cohort
5 legionnaires
2 veteran legionnaires
1 legatus
1 legionary cavalry
2 auxiliary cavalry (first legion uses gaullic reformed)
2 aux Cretan archers
2 auxilliary sword units (first legion uses Batavians)
2 auxiliary spear units (first legion uses gaullic, nervii, or tungrian)
2 auxiliary skirmishers (first legion uses cantafrian)

imperial (first legion)
1 eagle cohort
4 legionnaires (imperial)
1 veteran legionnaires (imperial)
2 Germanic veteran legionnaires
1 praetorian cavalry body guard
1 Batavian equities singulars
2 gaullic aux cavalry reformed
2 aux Cretan archers reformed
2 cantafrian skirmishers
1 Batavian heavy auxillary
1 Batavian heavy axulliary militaria
1 gaullic spearmen auxiliary militaria
1 auxiliary spear unit (gaullic, nervii, or tungrian)

Other imperial armies use other auxiliary depending on the regions they are recruited in or passing through on the way to a location.

I feel like this is the most historical way to represent a legion with just one army.

[TheSunEmperor]

Manipular Consular Army
2-4x Velites
4x Hastati (2 Romana, 2 Sociorum)
4x Principes (2 Romana, 2 Sociorum)
4x Triarii (2 Romana, 2 Sociorum)
1x Equites Romana
3x Equites Sociorum
1x General
1-2x Ballistae

Manipular Praetorian Army
1-2x Velites
2x Hastati (1 Romana, 1 Sociorum)
2x Principes (1 Romana, 1 Sociorum)
2x Triarii (1 Romana, 1 Sociorum)
1x Equites Romana
1x Equites Sociorum
1x General
1x Ballistae

I refrain from using Extraordinarii, as these troops (apart from the even more select Foot and Horse Guards of the Consul) were only separated from their cohorts (no pun intended) on the march, otherwise they fought in the main battle line.

[Ivan_Moscavich]

Manipular Consular Army
2-4x Velites
4x Hastati (2 Romana, 2 Sociorum)
4x Principes (2 Romana, 2 Sociorum)
4x Triarii (2 Romana, 2 Sociorum)
1x Equites Romana
3x Equites Sociorum
1x General
1-2x Ballistae

Manipular Praetorian Army
1-2x Velites
2x Hastati (1 Romana, 1 Sociorum)
2x Principes (1 Romana, 1 Sociorum)
2x Triarii (1 Romana, 1 Sociorum)
1x Equites Romana
1x Equites Sociorum
1x General
1x Ballistae

I refrain from using Extraordinarii, as these troops (apart from the even more select Foot and Horse Guards of the Consul) were only separated from their cohorts (no pun intended) on the march, otherwise they fought in the main battle line.

That's actually a good point. In this situation I just use it for mirrored consistency.

[Tyso3]

Well i like symmetrical armies and groups So my armies are usually a lot simpler. I also plan armies on the strategies i use.


I have 3 predesigned Roman Armies i use on DEI, but as i do not play custom battles ever, and only play campaign battles, these armies can vary depending on locally available units and culture.


Home Defense Armies
Duties: Dealing with rebellions, invasions and patrol
Units:
1 X General
4 X Light Spearmen
2 X Cheap Skirmishers

Primary Armies
Duties: Defeating enemy armies in the field
Units:
1 X General
6 X Spear/Pikeman (usually when possible, 4 pikes and 2 VH Spearmen)
4 X Very Heavy Infantry (Principes etc)
4 X Utility Infantry (Preference on strong but flexible in movement)
*3 X Skirmishers (Archers ideally but slingers will do. Rarely Javelin due to already having them for infantry)
2 X Calvary (Heavy, unless in hot climates)

Siege Armies
Duties: To support Primaries in field or to siege cities/towns
Units:
1 X General
2 X Elite Infantry (For Defense of army)
2 X Elite Cavalry (For Defense of army)
*9 X Archers (For Attacking defenders on walls/in town)
6 X Ballista (For destruction of walls/Armies)


* On Dei 1.1 one of these units is replaced by siege train


Even at the high of power when i control, say greece. I will usually have about 3 or so full stack armies, Usually 2 Primaries and 1 Siege.

[Baldos]

Manipular Legion
4 Hastati
4 Principes
2 Triarii
2 Equites
2 Velites or skirmishers
1 General
5 local Aux

Post Marian legion:
1 General
1 Eagle cohort
3 veteran cohort
6 Legionary coh
2 Spear auxiliary coh
2 Skirmisher coh
2 Equites
3 local aux