[Request] Raw Data in order to make DeI Startpos Submods via AK

[Moonflower]

Hey DeI Team

So I popped over to the submods section and read Dresden's tutorial for creating startpos submods for DeI when the thought struck me. Since DeI has a unique, older build of its startpos, it would be amazing if you could share your assemly_kit/raw_data folder so the DeI community can more readily offer creative startpos mods. As we all know the AK generates a new startpos and cannot be used to edit an existing one--for that you need pfm, and also as we all know that pfm editing process doesn't always work and is extremely time consuming even if you can pull it off. So having DeI's raw data as a resource to use for the AK would be a MAJOR boon.

Personally I am interested in creating a startpos for DeI that addresses the starting positions/region ownership of:

-Gaetuli

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I believe they should own Dimmidi only as they were a wandering tribe repudiated to be located south of the Atlas mountains, south of the holdings of the Masaesyli and the Maures. While they were remarked for their industry with murex snail dye with some territory on the atlantic coast, Carthage was more well known for having a monopoly on the trade thus they should have ownership over the sole resource of purple dye in north africa; see Carthage notes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlas_M...AtlasRange.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaetuli

-Tylis

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I believe they should own Pupledeva only. Tylis was a celto-thracian tribe east of Macedonia, between the holdings of macedon and the odryssian kingdom in byzantium. Pulpedeva is the renamed city of Phillipopolis and was named as such when it was reconquered by Thracian peoples following the decline of Alexander's Empire/the infighting of the Diadochi. Since Pulpedeva borders celtic and thracian cultures and is the closest territory to the historical location of the Tylis people, and since tylis has a celtic and thracian roster, I feel this change is appropriate. Also it creates a "funnel" warfare dynamic between greece and thrace; see macedon and odryssian kingdom notes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tylis#m...esinThrace.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plovdiv

-Epirus

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I believe they should own Apollonia only. While Epirus was backed by Macedonia in their efforts against the Romans in the Pyrrhic wars they never ruled over thessaly (larissa). They did for a time possess epidamnos which was a greek city-state, not an Illyrian town--it only became so as an early result of the Illyrian wars. To satisfy both historical contexts, I believe the ardiaei should start as a client state of epirus.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dalmata..._-_Ardiaei.png
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epidamnos
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ardiaei

-Macedon

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I believe Macedon should own Larissa and Pella only. Thessaly was historically under the rulership of Macedon following the reign of Phillip II. This change creates a nice buffer between athens/sparta and epirus--who historically weren't out to kill each other--and undoubtedly creates a back-and-forth warfare possibility between epirus-macedon vs athens-sparta with Larissa at the center.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thessaly#Ancient_history

-Carthage

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I believe they should possess Migdol. Not only was Carthage known for its purple dye monopoly, the settlement itself was a Carthaginian colony/trade post established by Hanno the Navigator.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mogador_island
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Essaouira#Antiquity

-Masaesyli

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I believe they should own Iol only. While Iol was technically a carthaginian colony, the tribe was in very close proximity to the colony. As Dimmidi and Iol are the only two regions available to represent three cultures present in the area, one has to lose, so Carthage can forfeit Iol to masaesyli, while Masaesyli can forfeit Dimmidi to gaetuli.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cherchell

-Odryssian Kingdom

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I believe they should possess Antheia and Odessos only.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odrysian_kingdom

I would love to test these changes and report on the gameplay results that I observe. I hope you see how sharing your raw_data resource would be a great gift to the modding savvy. Please, please consider this request!

Humbly yours,
MF

[Takarazuka]

I have actually edited the startpos for DEI to make a few of these changes myself... gave Larissa to Macedon and Epirus only has Appollonia, Pulpudeva to Odryssia Kingdom (not Tylis as you suggested, but you did more research than me lol!!), and Iol to Carthage (same thing!). I wanted to fix some of the historical inaccuracies with region ownership. It wasn't too difficult actually and just took figuring out where the regions were at in the array. I could make the changes you suggested and then share it for you to test if you would like?

[Moonflower]

That would be most kind! It would be very much appreciated Takarazuka.

Still though my request stands to the devs. I think dei's raw data would be a huge resource for modders wishing to create submods for dei.

[Takarazuka]

Do you use the standard DEI 4TPY or a TPY submod? Also.. I haven't quite figured out how to move starting armies. So, the armies from the other factions are still in their previous location, but they move eventually.

[Moonflower]

standard 4tpy. as long as there are no armies present in the settlements themselves... you shouldnt have trouble as far as i know...

[GatorMarine1833]

Epirus had Larissa at the start date of the main campaign. Pyrrhus had captured it in a brief war with the Antigonids after returning from Italy after Maleventum. It wasn't retaken by the Antigonids until after Pyrrhus was killed in Argos.

[Moonflower]

That may be so... but considering pyrrhus died in 272... It would make sense if it was already retaken, no?

[GatorMarine1833]

Pyrrhus is still the leader of Epirus at the start. The campaign begins at the beginning at 272, with Pyrrhus still alive and at war with Sparta, just before his abandoned siege of that city started.

Edit: Also, I feel that Epirus has one of the hardest starts of any of the factions as they are at war with Sparta (and thus risk war with Athens and Macedon), have terrible relations with Syracuse and Rome (who both often declare war very early on), and bad relations with Egypt and Carthage as well. Making them into a one settlement faction would be even worse for them.

[Takarazuka]

standard 4tpy. as long as there are no armies present in the settlements themselves... you shouldnt have trouble as far as i know...

A couple of the factions have armies that start situated in the cities. As I said, they eventually move them, but takes awhile sometimes. It's never caused any actual issues with the game itself, but I would like to figure out how to move them. I have been gone all day, but I will update the main DEI startpos tomorrow and upload it. I play on 2TPY so I need to adjust the main one.

[Moonflower]

Interesting. And no problem again, your efforts are most appreciated. If the changes result in awesome gameplay i hope the devs consider it as a permanent alteration. I'll have to give an accurate report

[Post Hoc]

A couple of the factions have armies that start situated in the cities. As I said, they eventually move them, but takes awhile sometimes. It's never caused any actual issues with the game itself, but I would like to figure out how to move them. I have been gone all day, but I will update the main DEI startpos tomorrow and upload it. I play on 2TPY so I need to adjust the main one.

How to remove armies
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...e-Assembly-Kit

[Takarazuka]

That's using the assembly kit, which I don't think works with the DEI startpos. The AK loads the default one... please correct me if I am wrong, but I have never gotten it to load the DEI startpos. I did find where the army location tables are at in there though... but there is a string of numbers after the settlement which I am not sure about. I will have to play with it later today when I have a chance.

Here is the base DEI startpos edited with the changes for region ownership. See how it works for you and I will work on the army placement later on.
http://www.mediafire.com/download/2k...dStartPos.pack

[Moonflower]

Beautiful. I'll be in touch. thanks again Takarazuka. +rep

[Dresden]

The problem is that most of the changes that DeI makes can't be made using the kit. We actually use the kit very little and then do a lot of post-kit editing due to the kit's limitations.

[Petar]

Pulpudeva (Philipopolis) is rightfully Macedonian, despite the fact that its population was Thracian.
Tylis (or Tyle), the capital of the Celts in Thrace is not yet discovered. Some propose modern village of Tulovo, others modern Arkovna, or somewhere in Southern Strandzha (where it is currently presented in-game), etc. So better refrain from making hasty conclusions.
http://balkancelts.wordpress.com/201...a-celtic-noun/

If you are set on improving the historical accuracy of Thrace and the neighbouring factions perhaps you can take a look at the Triballi-Scordisci relations. Right now Triballi are represented as Celtic (although in diplomacy screen they're related to the rest of Thracians). I'd say their unit roster needs quite a refinement. Odrysian roster as well.

If you want to discuss this in detail, I'll be glad to help.

[Moonflower]

The problem is that most of the changes that DeI makes can't be made using the kit. We actually use the kit very little and then do a lot of post-kit editing due to the kit's limitations.

Aw sad to know. Thanks for the info though.

Pulpudeva (Philipopolis) is rightfully Macedonian, despite the fact that its population was Thracian.
Tylis (or Tyle), the capital of the Celts in Thrace is not yet discovered. Some propose modern village of Tulovo, others modern Arkovna, or somewhere in Southern Strandzha (where it is currently presented in-game), etc. So better refrain from making hasty conclusions.
http://balkancelts.wordpress.com/201...a-celtic-noun/

If you are set on improving the historical accuracy of Thrace and the neighbouring factions perhaps you can take a look at the Triballi-Scordisci relations. Right now Triballi are represented as Celtic (although in diplomacy screen they're related to the rest of Thracians). I'd say their unit roster needs quite a refinement. Odrysian roster as well.

If you want to discuss this in detail, I'll be glad to help.

For me, the developer's choice in naming the city Pulpedeva was satisfactory enough for me to want to try the change in game. Your response also does not address the fact that Phillipopolis was conquered and renamed Pulpedeva by Thracians. Tylis owning Pulpedeva creates a more manageable warfare dynamic. Macedonia, owning Larissa and Pella, fights in a more concentrated area; defending the mountain passes to and around Larissa, and the passes to and from Pella--I haven't been able to test for this in DeI, but with my own startpos but that was the outcome. This new dynamic increased the survival of Macedon significantly. I haven't played a long DeI campaign in a while but my experience from the current ownerships of Macedon is that their forces end up getting spread too thin once they are at war with athens sparta tylis and the odryssians and they are gobbled up by the thracians. If a (semi-)historic alteration results in the survival of a faction that historically sticks around until around 146BC, then I'm all for it.

On another note, Camillian units are either too strong or celtic units are too weak. H/N campaign as carthage watched rome dominate cisalpina and raetia et noricum by 266BC.................................................................. The early republic was NOT this strong guys... come on now.

Also on my changes to the gaetuli and masaesyli: use the AK to look at the provincial modifiers to the regions Iol and Dimmidi; Iol: mauretania_numidia , Dimmidi: mauretania_gaetulia. just sayin.

[Moonflower]

Also, Takarazuka, it ctds after the first turn. :/

[Takarazuka]

Also, Takarazuka, it ctds after the first turn. :/

Hmmm that's odd... I will look in to it tonight. I didn't have time to test it, but I thought I went over all the changes to be sure I didn't miss anything.