Israel/Palestine thread with mention to the catalysy- 3 Israeli missing teens and the mobilization for conflict

[trance]

It's really simple. Using urban environs as means for deploying rocket artillery leads to very costly (in human lives) counter-operations. Comparing a totalitarian neo-islamic-fascist organisation with a progressive democracy is ing ridiculous and you know it. The IDF has no motive in causing more civilian casualties than necessary, the same does NOT go for Hamas or other palestinian terrorist organisations.

[hellheaven1987]

Israel says missing soldier is dead

The Israeli military says a soldier reported missing in Gaza on Friday is dead.

Hadar Goldin was believed to have been captured by militants during fighting, leading to the collapse of a ceasefire shortly after it had been declared.

The Israel Defense Forces said it had determined that Lt Goldin, previously considered captured, had died.

Israeli PM Benjamin Netanyahu has said the operation in Gaza will continue according to Israel's security needs.

Hamas had denied it was holding the 23-year-old captive, saying it did not know the soldier's whereabouts.

The military wing of Islamist group said it had lost contact with some fighters in the area where Israel said the soldier had been seized.

It said it believed the fighters and possibly Lt Goldin had been killed in an Israeli airstrike.

Israel's defence minister and the chief military rabbi met the soldier's family at their home in the town of Kfar Saba on Saturday night.

Hundreds of well-wishers had gathered outside their home and there was an outpouring of grief when the military's announcement was made public.

Confirmation of Lt Goldin's death means 66 Israelis have now died in the fighting, all but two of them soldiers.

Some 1,670 Palestinians, mostly civilians, have been killed since the conflict began more than three weeks ago.

Source

The article did not say the soldier was dead before Israel went nut on truce or he was dead after the truce was terminated by Israel.

[Caduet]

It's really simple. Using urban environs as means for deploying rocket artillery leads to very costly (in human lives) counter-operations. Comparing a totalitarian neo-islamic-fascist organisation with a progressive democracy is ing ridiculous and you know it. The IDF has no motive in causing more civilian casualties than necessary, the same does NOT go for Hamas or other palestinian terrorist organisations.

Ok so if its SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO simple for israeliboos, why is a "terrorist organization" risking men and materiel on heroic tunnel raids on exclusively military targets? Why don't they go for soft civilian targets? They're just a bunch of dirty totalitarian neo-islamic-fascists right? That's their whole reason for existing right? Raping israeli babies and puppies and all that good stuff? Or maybe you just don't understand whats going on in reality, as opposed to the IDF fantasy for goyim.

All of Gaza is an "urban environ". Furthermore, the jews knowingly target civilians for murder, as proven by the latest bombing of that UN shelter.

So here's a summary of the actual situation: Hamas, the totalitarian neo-islamic-fascist organization, which is SUPPOSED to kill every jew innocent they get the chance to kill, for some reason CHOOSES not to do so when they infiltrate israel. Admittedly the rockets have caused a total of three (3) civilian casualties. However, Hamas sends warnings to minimize civilian casualties. Looking at the facts objectively, they are doing a far better job than the IDF.

The IDF, the righteous defenders of a progressive (lol) democracy, which is SUPPOSED to be minimizing civilian casualties, has killed a staggering 500 times as many civilians as the scary terrywists. We know they CHOOSE to do so at least some of the time by the aforementioned intentional bombing of a known shelter for civilians.

The situation IS a simple black and white one. The problem is goyim who get their colours reversed.

[Yayattasa]

The IDF has no motive in causing more civilian casualties than necessary

THAN NECESSARY? Are you saying there IS a necessary civilian casualties threshold?

[Yosemite]

caught red handed
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=8f2_1392220198
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yu54aSM6QOE

look at 0:17 in the liveleak video

for the record

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[alex man142]

caught red handed
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=8f2_1392220198
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yu54aSM6QOE

look at 0:17 in the liveleak video

for the record

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Hamas is a true terrorist organization. I hope the IDF wipes their scum off the face of the planet.

[Yayattasa]

Hamas is a true terrorist organization. I hope the IDF wipes their scum off the face of the planet.

I think you did not get it...

[alex man142]

I think you did not get it...

Maybe not

My point still stands though, Hamas is using its own people as shields, which is a reason for the higher than usual civilian casualties among the Gazan people. If it were not for the Iron Dome, Israeli casualties would be extremely high.

That the crux. If it were not for the Iron Dome, the rockets would have hit densely populated urban centers (which is what Hamas wants) and would have caused high civilian kill counts. Israel is targeting military targets which are mixed in with civilian areas. Hamas blindly fires toward civilian centers, and if it were not for the Iron Dome, thousands of Israelis would probably be dead.

[PointOfViewGun]

Maybe not

My point still stands though, Hamas is using its own people as shields, which is a reason for the higher than usual civilian casualties among the Gazan people. If it were not for the Iron Dome, Israeli casualties would be extremely high.

That the crux. If it were not for the Iron Dome, the rockets would have hit densely populated urban centers (which is what Hamas wants) and would have caused high civilian kill counts. Israel is targeting military targets which are mixed in with civilian areas. Hamas blindly fires toward civilian centers, and if it were not for the Iron Dome, thousands of Israelis would probably be dead.

Let me guess, you have absolutely nothing to back these claims?

[Seether]

So you're saying Hamas doesn't use human shields?

[Yayattasa]

That the crux. If it were not for the Iron Dome, the rockets would have hit densely populated urban centers (which is what Hamas wants) and would have caused high civilian kill counts. Israel is targeting military targets which are mixed in with civilian areas. Hamas blindly fires toward civilian centers, and if it were not for the Iron Dome, thousands of Israelis would probably be dead.

Why would Hamas want to do that? Hamas is gathering A LOT of international bad rep upon Israel because it isn't killing civilians, while the same cannot be said about the Adolf Netanyahu henchmen.
Also, Hamas has pretty much no aiming capabilities to it's rocket artillery: not all rockets are intercepted, they mostly hit empry areas.
If Hamas wants high civilian kill counts they simply need to cross the border in their tunnels and start the slaughter. It did not happen, why?

[PointOfViewGun]

So you're saying Hamas doesn't use human shields?

That's hilarious. You should do standup at open mic night.

You're free to the evidence of them using human shields, or, the evidence of their use of human shields being the reason for higher civilian casualties. What's stopping you?

[Condottiere 40K]

From what I understand of how the Iron Dome operates, sensors pick up and calculate the ballistic flight and probable impact point of each rocket, and if it falls into an area designated as protected, it gets shot down, otherwise, it would be ignored. Which brings in possibilities for mid course correction.

Hamas probably would be more effective if they can disrupt Israel economically and socially, since they won't do it by pure attrition.

[Roma_Victrix]

Ok so if its SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO simple for israeliboos, why is a "terrorist organization" risking men and materiel on heroic tunnel raids on exclusively military targets? Why don't they go for soft civilian targets?

It's true, to their credit they haven't used the tunnels for that purpose. However, what do you think indiscriminately launching Qassam rockets at Israeli towns is meant for? Those aren't meant for hitting military targets, since they aren't capable of being guided to a precise target. If not for the Iron Dome anti-missile system, those rockets would most certainly kill Israeli civilians. Even with Iron Dome, they managed to kill two Israeli civilians with those rockets in this latest conflict.

That being said, Israel is no better than Hamas now for what appears to be retaliatory fire against areas they know are heavily populated with civilians, even UN shelters and schools. With the ultimate defensive capabilities of Iron Dome, there's no reason to use such excessive force or suppressive fire every time a Hamas militant launches a rocket from wherever. In that case it seems Israel is doing this out of spite or revenge for those teenagers more than anything else. For that I condemn their latest offensive and wish for my US tax dollars to stop feeding Israel's war machine. I also think Netanyahu is a complete cynic who thinks the US will always back anything he does, that he is absolved from criticism. Unfortunately he's enjoying universal popular support in Israel at the moment. So long as he remains Prime Minister, a two-state solution is not only shelved: it's an impossibility. He maintains power only by putting Israel into a state of constant war. It's exactly how Bush was able to secure the 2004 presidential election against John Kerry (ironically, now the US Secretary of State being rebuffed by Netanyahu for trying to seek a peace deal with the Palestinians).

Israel is clearly in the wrong. However, this does not mean that Hamas is not a terrorist organization and uses similar tactics. If they were as powerful as Israel, by all means they would do the same if not worse. Yet aside from going the Gandhi route and gaining worldwide sympathy through non-violent protest against their occupiers, they're still not the ones in a position to change things. Israel, which blockades Gaza and is choking the life out of it, is the only one in a position of power to seek a two-state solution. Thus, it all depends on the Israeli public. Good luck convincing them that the Palestinians want to share the Holy Land while simultaneously calling for Israel's destruction in their charter. Both sides are filled with whacky religious nuts, so when both sides think their God has privileged them with this plot of land in the Levant, the obvious will occur.

[hellheaven1987]

what do you think indiscriminately launching Qassam rockets at Israeli towns is meant for?

Self-defense, obviously.

[justicar5]

The IGF in this case are to be held to the higher standard, as an armed robber is responsible for everything following a home invasion, Israel is responsible for everything resulting from the illegal occupations and blockade of Gaza. Simples.

[Papay]

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-28628682

Israel targeted a UN school killing dozens of Palestinians...again. I guess its no news anymore

[Tiberios]

And here is the UN confirming that UN schools are being used to store weapons.

http://www.unrwa.org/newsroom/press-...ne-its-schools

While I think Israel is using excessive force, I am disgusted by the fact that there seem to be little criticism of the methods used by Hamas from many European media outlets. I guess when you are the underdog and the "victim", you are the good guy in the eyes of too many journalists.

[gloin99]

And here is the UN confirming that UN schools are being used to store weapons.

http://www.unrwa.org/newsroom/press-...ne-its-schools

While I think Israel is using excessive force, I am disgusted by the fact that there seem to be little criticism of the methods used by Hamas from many European media outlets.

Maybe read your own links?

Today, in the course of the regular inspection of its premises, UNRWA discovered rockets hidden in a vacant school in the Gaza Strip.

UN officials have stated several times that those rockets were only found in empty buildings. The UN schools bombed were full of civilians and the IDF was informed many times.

[Tiberios]

Maybe read your own links?

I did.

UN officials have stated several times that those rockets were only found in empty buildings. The UN schools bombed were full of civilians and the IDF was informed many times.

They are still using UN buildings and the press release mentioned that it was located between two other schools, both of which accomodates over a thousand refugees. To be fair, there was no mention of how far apart from each other these three schools are. It does not change that fact that UN buildings are being used to store weapons and if such buildings are located next to buildings filled with refugees, then Hamas, or whatever group stored them there, is as guilty as the Israeli's when people get killed.

It is clearly an extremely cynical move by Palestinian terrorists. They know full well that civilians will flee to UN buildings in the hope that Israel won't target those buildings and they know that if the IDF hit a UN building with refugees, public opinion will turn against Israel. The worst part of this is that Western media has jumped on the bash Israel wagon, discarding any remnant of critical journalism in the process. Criticism of Israel is more than justified, but there is very little public and media outrage of Hamas' sacrifice of Palestinian civilians in their fight against Israel.