SSHIP - General Discussion

[Fishmalk]

I agree, for field battles anyway the AI is a bit reckless with their generals but when the defender they are fairly good at sitting on high ground and forcing the player to attack them uphill. They do have a tendency to fail to react to cavalry flanks, especially when attacking a settlement.

[kostic]

Battle AI currently feels very good and responsive to me.
In my current test with the Qipchaq, I just regret that the portraits and the images of the events are not adapted to the culture ...

[santiagosemurió]

Hi, i´m new to the forum and wanted to thank you for this mod, it has embellished my experience in the fantastic S.S.H.I.P. I specially wanted to play Denmark with cavalry as general´s bodyguards but when i spawn new generals they appear as Hirdmenn. I´m in turn 21 and until now i have only marry my princess and adopted a general after a battle, but i have this problem and i don´t know if this a bug.

If someone could tell me a way to solve this i would be greatful, i´ve done some search and haven´t found anything due to the mod being somehow very specific in it´s ways.
Once again thanks for the incredible mod. Greetings, Santiago.

[santiagosemurió]

Hi i posted earlier because i didn´t search denmark in thread (second time posting in the forum, sorry). I´ve had this problem as well, do you know of some way to solve it? Greetings.

[kostic]

I'm glad you like the mod !
This is indeed an unwanted error. The next version should fix this.


In the meantime, you can try to correct the problem yourself by editing the export_descr_unit.txt file and searching for the Royal Hirdsmen unit. Then, go down to the ownership line and delete denmark, from the list of factions affected by the model.


Hope this will work.

[santiagosemurió]

Thanks for answering!
I have changed the txt, i´ll do some test to see if it works.
Do you know if doing that has an effect on my on going campaign?
Thanks eitherway, hope the next version comes soon.

[Gigantus]

...for field battles anyway the AI is a bit reckless with their generals...

Did I ever mention how we circumvented the AI generals suiciding themselves in 1648?

Simply gave them a missile primary weapon with a long range, low damage and a healthy amount of ammunition. Still had it's regular sword so the player could use it for regular attacks.

[kostic]

Did I ever mention how we circumvented the AI generals suiciding themselves in 1648?

Simply gave them a missile primary weapon with a long range, low damage and a healthy amount of ammunition. Still had it's regular sword so the player could use it for regular attacks.

Very interesting that: just modify the EDU or do you have to rework the .mesh ?

[Gigantus]

Very interesting that: just modify the EDU or do you have to rework the .mesh ?

You will need a complete new 'body guard' and 'general' model and a modified EDU entry as they have to have a missile animation and obviously a missile weapon.

[Jurand of Cracow]

Guys,
I've been working on the Landowners building: producing pics, recoding the building line, recoding recruitment.
I've finished pics for NE and SE, and recoded knights' recruitment for England, Scotland, Poland, Lithuania, Novgorod, Kiev, and Georgia.
Here is the NE and EE outcome:

[Nemesis2345]

Looking good and immersive , Jurand. I cant wait to try the new version.

[j.a.luna]

Perfect work Jurand! I wish play the new version soon hehe

[umbracatervae777]

Soo, those culture/religion based requirement system is now adapted. I wonder if other class units is also affected

[Jurand of Cracow]

Soo, those culture/religion based requirement system is now adapted. I wonder if other class units is also affected

Good catch.
Actually, I was looking for a way to slow down an unrealistic recruitment a bit. A faction should not be able to conscript knights just after a foreign land is taken. Having this 25% will perhaps limit the most outrages cases. I have no idea if it would make much difference though. And I'm not sure if 25% is a good threshold at all.
For now other classes of units are not affected, but we'll see in the future.

[Nemesis2345]

Good catch.
Actually, I was looking for a way to slow down an unrealistic recruitment a bit. A faction should not be able to conscript knights just after a foreign land is taken. Having this 25% will perhaps limit the most outrages cases. I have no idea if it would make much difference though. And I'm not sure if 25% is a good threshold at all.
For now other classes of units are not affected, but we'll see in the future.

I mean if you really want to get into it , i would set noble units at 60% catholicism honestly , you can 25% by just sending 2 priests to sit there.

I would go 25% for the catholic semi profs( like the sergeants ) and the levies militia shouldnt be included in any limit as they are technically levied from the said town to defend it.

[Kilgore Trout]

Did I ever mention how we circumvented the AI generals suiciding themselves in 1648?

Simply gave them a missile primary weapon with a long range, low damage and a healthy amount of ammunition. Still had it's regular sword so the player could use it for regular attacks.

As Gigantus said, I've been doing this for about five years now for all of my own games and it works wonderfully. I will play the game no other way. I fully suggest implementing this idea in the next version of SHIPP, or at least allowing the player to add the needed bmdb file as an option.

No More Suicide, I call it.

It looks something like this using crossbows:

type NE Bodyguard
dictionary NE_Bodyguard
category cavalry
class skirmish
voice_type General
banner faction main_cavalry
banner holy crusade_cavalry
soldier Mounted_Crossbowmen, 4, 0, 1
officer northern_captain
mount mailed horse
mount_effect elephant -4, camel -4
attributes sea_faring, hide_forest, can_withdraw, crossbow, start_skirmishing, general_unit, command
move_speed_mod 0.95
formation 2, 4.4, 3, 6, 3, square
stat_health 1, 3
stat_pri 1, 1, composite_arrow, 234, 99, missile, missile_mechanical, piercing, none, 25, 1
stat_pri_attr area
stat_sec 5, 6, no, 0, 0, melee, melee_blade, piercing, sword, 60, 1
stat_sec_attr no
stat_pri_armour 4, 1, 0, metal ;
stat_sec_armour 0, 0, flesh
stat_heat 2
stat_ground -1, -1, -4, -2
stat_mental 10, normal, trained
stat_charge_dist 20
stat_fire_delay 0
stat_food 60, 300
stat_cost 4, 982, 327, 90, 70, 625, 4, 110
armour_ug_levels 7, 11
armour_ug_models Mounted_Crossbowmen, Mounted_Crossbowmen_ug1
ownership england, scotland, france, hre, denmark, poland, hungary, slave , norway, jerusalem

or this, using archers:

type ME Bodyguard
dictionary ME_Bodyguard
category cavalry
class missile
voice_type General
banner faction main_cavalry
banner holy crusade_cavalry
soldier cavalry_archer, 4, 0, 1
officer islam_flag
mount armoured horse
mount_effect elephant -4, camel -4
attributes sea_faring, hide_forest, hardy, can_withdraw, horse_archers, general_unit, command
formation 2, 4.4, 3, 6, 3, square
stat_health 1, 3
stat_pri 1, 1, composite_arrow, 234, 99, missile, missile_mechanical, piercing, none, 25, 1;180
stat_pri_attr area
stat_sec 1, 1, no, 0, 0, melee, melee_blade, piercing, sword, 60, 1
stat_sec_attr ap
stat_pri_armour 4, 5, 2, metal ;
stat_sec_armour 0, 0, flesh
stat_heat 0
stat_ground -2, 0, -5, -3
stat_mental 14, disciplined, highly_trained
stat_charge_dist 20
stat_fire_delay 0
stat_food 60, 300
stat_cost 4, 1244, 414, 120, 95, 1395, 4, 220
armour_ug_levels 7, 11
armour_ug_models cavalry_archer, cavalry_archer_ug1
ownership moors, egypt, turks, kwarezm

[Jurand of Cracow]

I'm not sure the suicidal generals are a problem of the SSHIP. I haven't seen a general just charging before the army. If I recall problems, it's rather the generals who chase a unit and being drawn from the centre where his presence is most needed. The AI generals get buff, including additional hit points (read more about the AI bonusses here - there's a section devoted to this issue). They usually fight very long during a battle.

;========================================================================================= AI boost traits;----- AI boost traits ----------------------------------
;========================================================
; traits boosting AI agents are in another place
; and, especially, have special additional triggers


;------------------------------------------ AI boost difficulty levels
Trait AI_Boost_Difficulty
 Characters family
 Hidden


 Level Hidden
   Description Hidden_desc
   EffectsDescription Hidden_effects_desc
   Threshold 1 


   Effect Command 1 
   Effect Piety 1
   Effect Loyalty 1 
   Effect TroopMorale 1
   Effect MovementPoints 2 
   Effect LineOfSight 10       ; improves the CAI behaviour
   Effect SiegeEngineering 20  ; less likehood for AI break a siege
   Effect LocalPopularity 2
   Effect Construction 10      ; the only way to induce the AI to build something
   
 Level Ai_Boost_Hard
   Description Hidden_desc
   EffectsDescription Hidden_effects_desc
   Threshold 2 


   Effect Command 1 
   Effect Piety 2
   Effect Loyalty 2
   Effect TroopMorale 2
   Effect MovementPoints 4 
   Effect LineOfSight 12
   Effect SiegeEngineering 40
   Effect LocalPopularity 4
   Effect Construction 15
   
 Level Ai_Boost_VeryHard
   Description Hidden_desc
   EffectsDescription Hidden_effects_desc
   Threshold 3 


   Effect Command 1 
   Effect Piety 2
   Effect Loyalty 2 
   Effect TroopMorale 3
   Effect MovementPoints 6 
   Effect LineOfSight 14
   Effect SiegeEngineering 60
   Effect LocalPopularity 6
   Effect Construction 20


;------------------------------------------ FL and FH boosts
Trait NaturalAiBoost
 Characters family
 Hidden


 Level Ai_Boost_General
   Description Hidden_desc
   EffectsDescription Hidden_effects_desc
   Threshold 1 


   Effect HitPoints 1
   Effect Authority 1          ; to be able to acquire traits with this condition
   
 Level Ai_Boost_Heir
   Description Hidden_desc
   EffectsDescription Hidden_effects_desc
   Threshold 2


   Effect TroopMorale 1
   Effect HitPoints 2
   Effect Fertility 2
   Effect Authority 1
   
 Level Ai_Boost_FLeader
   Description Hidden_desc
   EffectsDescription Hidden_effects_desc
   Threshold 3


   Effect TroopMorale 2
   Effect HitPoints 3
   Effect Fertility 1
   Effect Authority 1
   
;------------------------------------------ move fix
Trait Ai_MoveFix
 Characters family
 Hidden


 Level Hidden
   Description Hidden_desc
   EffectsDescription Hidden_effects_desc
   Threshold 1 


   Effect MovementPoints -20 


 Level Hidden
   Description Hidden_desc
   EffectsDescription Hidden_effects_desc
   Threshold 2


   Effect MovementPoints -10
   
 Level Hidden
   Description Hidden_desc
   EffectsDescription Hidden_effects_desc
   Threshold 3


 Level Hidden
   Description Hidden_desc
   EffectsDescription Hidden_effects_desc
   Threshold 4


   Effect MovementPoints 4   


 Level Hidden
   Description Hidden_desc
   EffectsDescription Hidden_effects_desc
   Threshold 5


   Effect MovementPoints 8

I mean if you really want to get into it , i would set noble units at 60% catholicism honestly , you can 25% by just sending 2 priests to sit there.

I would go 25% for the catholic semi profs( like the sergeants ) and the levies militia shouldnt be included in any limit as they are technically levied from the said town to defend it.

25% is just to prevent faction from recruiting own religion troops in a completely alien environment. It is a road bump, but not really an barrier.
However, if there'd more voices like yours, @Nemesis, then the threshold may be raised.

[Kilgore Trout]

It's all good. I haven't tried SHIPP for a long time, so I'll find out about the generals when the next version comes out.

I will add though, that one reason I like to make the generals into super weak, super small, super long distance missile units is, aside from eliminating the suicidal tendencies, so that they don't become a monster fighting machine decimating my front lines that I feel I must target (thereby once killing causing the enemy to route much, much more easily). As super long distance, super small, super weak missile units, they stand back (at least until they are out of missiles, which last longer than most battles do), and thereby I don't have to target them, and so they stay alive and keep their forces morale high until the end of the battle. In fact, I make it my own personal rule to NOT target the enemy generals until all of his units have routed. It makes for much longer and more challenging battles, of course.

Another aspect about having super small, super weak generals, for my faction, is that I can't use them as the magically regenerating after each battle most powerful unit in my army. They are simply generals and are too small and weak to get involved in the fight. Their purpose is to command the troops and stay alive. Well, I always play with BGRV, so a mounted knight is an extremely costly and valuable unit, and therefore a magically regenerating general works to negate the value of the super costly and dear mounted knights.

I understand why you might not want to alter the game mechanics in SHIPP so much, but I strongly recommend you try this out for yourselves just to see how it works and if you like it.

Much looking forward to the next and greatest version of SHIPP!

[Jurand of Cracow]

I will add though, that one reason I like to make the generals into super weak, super small, super long distance missile units is, aside from eliminating the suicidal tendencies, so that they don't become a monster fighting machine decimating my front lines that I feel I must target (thereby once killing causing the enemy to route much, much more easily). As super long distance, super small, super weak missile units, they stand back (at least until they are out of missiles, which last longer than most battles do), and thereby I don't have to target them, and so they stay alive and keep their forces morale high until the end of the battle. In fact, I make it my own personal rule to NOT target the enemy generals until all of his units have routed. It makes for much longer and more challenging battles, of course.

Another aspect about having super small, super weak generals, for my faction, is that I can't use them as the magically regenerating after each battle most powerful unit in my army. They are simply generals and are too small and weak to get involved in the fight. Their purpose is to command the troops and stay alive. Well, I always play with BGRV, so a mounted knight is an extremely costly and valuable unit, and therefore a magically regenerating general works to negate the value of the super costly and dear mounted knights.

I've also been a great fan of BGR, but I have played BGRV only once because for me the traits are essential and Byg disabled all but his for that version. And I have other issues with BGR - @Kilgore, maybe you'd address of some of my concerns, they're enumerated here.

Cavalry has been nerfed in the SSHIP (the relevant parameter lowered from 3.0 to 1.75, iirc), most of the HitPoint benefits are gone for the player, so the risk of a general dying in a fight is high. For the AI, again, I've seen it to be economical with the general, until there's a fully-fledged fight (and yes, then it fights actively with the general).

[LuckyPistol]

Don't know if this has been asked before, but I can't seem to find it previously mentioned.

Is there any way to recruit diplomats as the Serbs? I'd hate to have to convert my capital, as I haven't expanded eastward yet and it provides a nice defense/recruitment center.