Primicerius
Re: Prostitution
I'm not sure about ancient Rome or Greece but certainly in places like Japan prostitution was simply another profession. I'm not 100% sure, but I'm fairly certain that prostitute was about the same level in the pecking order as merchant pre-Christianity.Originally Posted by Mangalore
For this there are words, but none that abide by the ToS.
Re: Prostitution
I was imagining stuff like an NHS 'glory-hole' drop-in center for frustrated men on a Friday night, and the drop in violence and alcohol consumption it may hopefully facilitate.
Full-on sexual social engineering.
But I suppose if it's regulated then we-the-state would have to get involved more regardless. Stuff like college qualifications and maybe even required licensing could be in order.
Comrade Natascha
Re: Prostitution
Even with the arrival of Christianity prostitution was generally tolerated albeit in some places at some times reluctantly. But the Catholic Church even ran brothels, and apart from the idea that prostitutes were Mary Magdelene types, it was also done because it was as preventing greater evils, rape, sodomy, mastur... oh wait, sexual self gratification (cursed censor) and such. By the High Middle Ages there were organised brothels outside of Church control. They were generally restricted to areas in major towns and cities and the attitude towards prostitution outside such establishments varied across Europe. But it really wasn't until the arrival of an unwelcome American guest in the form of syphilis that prostitution fell out of favour. Suddenly the same organisation that had previously endorsed the practice saw it as some great evil.
Under the stern but loving patronage of Nihil.
Triggering
Re: Prostitution
Thats not a problem, thats our biology. We might all be happier in a world where women and men had the same types of sex drives, but I'd be happier in a world where I could eat cheese fries without weight gain. Different sexual strategies won't change without some sort of chemical intervention.
"When I die, I want to die peacefully in my sleep, like Fidel Castro, not screaming in terror, like his victims."
My shameful truth.
Re: Prostitution
Sorry, but this romanticizes realities. As I spoke in an earlier post, there were a few high standing courtesans who could have great influence and a good life at any time and age, but 99 % of prostitutes were social outcasts at the rims of society with little to no rights. Prostitutes in Roman world had to be preferably slaves and were banned from public appearances and lacked certain rights as unclean people, in the Middle Ages women had to be from a different town than the brothel, not married and essentially gave up on salvation (could not be buried in holy ground), most Geishas weren't lucky high status courtesans but more or less property of a sex slave rings.
This is the case in Japan, in the Catholic Middle Ages, in the Roman empire, in ancient Greece, in China. It's maybe money lenders that were on a similar level because money lenders had a crappy social status themselves, but certainly not merchants.
"Sebaceans once had a god called Djancaz-Bru. Six worlds prayed to her. They built her temples, conquered planets. And yet one day she rose up and destroyed all six worlds. And when the last warrior was dying, he said, 'We gave you everything, why did you destroy us?' And she looked down upon him and she whispered, 'Because I can.' "
Mangalore Design
｡◕‿◕｡
Re: Prostitution
We're talking about prostitution here, not sex trafficking. Nobody is discussing legalization of sex trafficking or trafficking of any sort.
Right, that just means we need to put more effort helping homeless people so they don't have to pick a job they hate. Again it has nothing to do with prostitution itself.
It might, exactly because there are many like you, who think they're bad because they're bad.
What has this kind of attitude got us? Nothing but unnecessary pain and suffering, self-inflicted by the society itself.
Re: Prostitution
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_Sweden
You might wish to read about what Sweden, Norway, Iceland, and now France are doing regarding prostitution.
The things you're all discussing are older paradigms and largely discarded today as things that will further disempower women. Whether you call it sex trafficking or prostitution, it's the same thing. Honestly pornography is legalized prostitution. We've just made it appear to be normal when it's anything but. This isn't a case of art photos like Domai or Hegre but some very dark stuff and increasingly violent. Read some books by former porn stars discussing the kind of things that happened on set with injuries and drug abuse and coercion.
https://againstpornography.org/thingstoknow.html
And just ignore the facts that the average age is very low for prostitutes because of the homeless kids doing it. You're not making it safer for them, just enabling johns. I feel rather disgusted with this conversation.
Last edited by RubiconDecision; June 05, 2014 at 10:42 AM.
Comes Limitis
Re: Prostitution
Geisha are not prostitutes. They're singers, dancers, and musicians. They're for entertainment and conversation. Sex with customers was strictly forbidden although it might be done illegally to get extra cash. The Japanese had licensed Courtesans called Oiran who dabbled in arts other than the sexual but were primarily for sex, think a classy call girl. Then you had your basic brothel whore the Yujo. The Geishas would entertain you with music and serve you alcohol then if you wanted you'd do the Oirans.
The confusion stems from the fact that Japanese prostitutes catering to westerners in the 19th and 20th centuries called themselves Geishas because it sounded classier.
Geishas appeal to Japanese men because they want a subordinate modest little wife at home but were willing to pay for the company of elegant interesting women. That or a fetish for women covered in bird.
Last edited by Col. Tartleton; June 05, 2014 at 11:07 AM.
The Earth is inhabited by billions of idiots.
The search for intelligent life continues...
Comes Rei Militaris
Re: Prostitution
As usual I do not feel like you are approaching the topic rationally rubicon.
Prostitution is bad because there are young people doing it...a lot of the pro legalisation arguments are to help prevent that not make it happen more and nothing you have posted either
A. Acknowledges the fact that people who want to legalise prostitution might have altruistic aims for doing so, harm reduction etc instead of immoral perverts or whatever is stoking your oh so familiar moral despair.
B. Criminalisation of the consensual acts is harmful to society and some people are against that.
C. Human trafficking is a byproduct of illegality. That does not automatically make a consensual trade between adults evil. Either way you are going to have consensual exchanges illegal or legal the question is best way to stop the others.
Funnily enough I am opposed to punishing all out of fear or moral outrage.
Triggering
Re: Prostitution
The historical working conditions of prostitutes should really play no baring on the future.
Historical working conditions for children used to be awful.
For factory workers awful.
For construction, awful.
For entertainers, awful.
Not always, not everywhere, but the same can be said for prostitution. Currently the illegal nature is what makes it worse for many.
"When I die, I want to die peacefully in my sleep, like Fidel Castro, not screaming in terror, like his victims."
My shameful truth.
Comes Limitis
Re: Prostitution
Illegal workers can't form unions.
The Earth is inhabited by billions of idiots.
The search for intelligent life continues...
Comes Rei Militaris
Re: Prostitution
Keeping it illegal is basically a giant
hoi polloi
Re: Prostitution
Of course for every bad experience you can find say Sasha Grey
http://www.thedailybeast.com/article...-backlash.html
or a more nuanced view
http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/b..._revealed.html
http://www.salon.com/2014/05/04/im_i..._love_of_porn/
Oh no Porn and work place injury?
How awful I suppose you want to shut down Coal mining then, or how about tool and die making? 30 years for Ford meant my father had to have two shoulder replacements and chronic back pain.
I agree there is risk in being a porn star as their is being Model or any actress or actor. But of course there is a risk just getting in your car and driving to a desk job.
First find me a comparison of drug abuse in Modeling/non porn acting and the General public and porn Actors.
Also how about one on sex related injury in the General public vs professional porn actors.
Of course they could join the Air Force and get free 'go pills'
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/3071789/ns.../#.U5CaNShNzZ4
And of course Military personal have such a huge range of options to disobey an order w/o consequences
What is kind of funny about the link is that after 30 years(of age for Americans) Porn condom use is about equal to surveys of the General public in the US so...
Last edited by conon394; June 05, 2014 at 11:31 AM.
IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites
'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'
But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.
Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.
Re: Prostitution
Hardly, as most people in the sex trade are underage and often coerced into doing it or by your own admission a product of poverty or as a result of drug addiction. It's back to the reality of prostitution versus some pleasant idea of rutting with some nubile and willing college student.
Read the actions in that link on Sweden in which the john is punished not the prostitute in order to reduce prostitution. I'm not at all interested in what two consulting adults do within their homes but I'm all about reducing the cycle of drug abuse, homelessness, prostitution, and violence.
Unions today have little to no power in the USA. I can't see unionizing prostitutes as genuinely helping them. Neither will brothels. The only thing that would be best served for the public might be licensed medically supervised brothels but again that's an old and now discarded paradigm. It's honestly not going to better public health due to incubation periods.
hoi polloi
Re: Prostitution
RD who are you replying to?
IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites
'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'
But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.
Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.
Triggering
Re: Prostitution
I know one woman who works in the sex trade, shes 33. The sex trade in the US isn't about abused children for the most part.
No you are not. If you were, you might conceded that legal and regulated would reduce the cycle of all this.Read the actions in that link on Sweden in which the john is punished not the prostitute in order to reduce prostitution. I'm not at all interested in what two consulting adults do within their homes but I'm all about reducing the cycle of drug abuse, homelessness, prostitution, and violence.
Unions have no power???? Ugh tell that to my bankrupt ass state.Unions today have little to no power in the USA. I can't see unionizing prostitutes as genuinely helping them. Neither will brothels. The only thing that would be best served for the public might be licensed medically supervised brothels but again that's an old and now discarded paradigm. It's honestly not going to better public health due to incubation periods.
"When I die, I want to die peacefully in my sleep, like Fidel Castro, not screaming in terror, like his victims."
My shameful truth.
Re: Prostitution
It really doesn't matter, but Denny. You just happened to reply faster. I'm done as there's no discussion as you've all decided that legalization would be better, a notion discredited in those countries I mentioned.
Streetwalking may be down in Sweden, but because of Internet advertisement, literally anyone can put up a website and run a sex trade business. That was formerly happening in the USA with Craigslist as many of the sex ads were not about hookups but about the sex trade. It's become a service not any different than pornography.
If prostitution was about adults that would be one thing, but it's not as I've clearly demonstrated by numerous links. Obviously it's too much trouble for some of you to actually read about it or watch a documentary. You all think it's about a wink and a nod and 18+ year olds and that's not reality whatsoever.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/domestic-se...ry?id=10557194
"Moore and her husband, Ashton Kutcher, recently created The Demi and Ashton Foundation to raise awareness about the issue of sex slavery worldwide.
The Department of Justice estimates that more than 250,000 American youth are at risk of becoming victims of commercial sexual exploitation. The average age of entry for female prostitutes in the United States is between 12 and 14 years, and children and youth older than 12 are prime targets for sexual exploitation by organized crime units, according to a 2001 report.
In addition to domestic girls who are exploited, about 14,500 to 17,500 girls from other countries are smuggled into the United States for this purpose, according to the State Department.
"We know so little about our daughters who are bought for sex," said Malika Saada Saar, president of The Rebecca Project for Human Rights, which organized the briefing Tuesday to bring attention to the issue of domestic sex trafficking.
There is a "cyber slave market that is being built up by Craigslist and other Web sites," Saada Saar said, and most of the time, the pimps who buy and sell these girls are never arrested or jailed.
Many of the children sold into the sex trade come from broken families or the foster care system. Often times, as in the case of M.S. and Asia, they are looking for an escape and for the one thing they say they didn't find at home, love."
Last edited by RubiconDecision; June 05, 2014 at 11:45 AM.
Protector Domesticus
Re: Prostitution
Swedish men can just drive across the bridge and get their pleasures fulfilled in Denmark. The same thing can be said about their need for cheaper alcohol.
It seems pointless to punish the buyers with fines or jail time, and claim you are helping the prostitute. You are taking away her (only) source of income.
Last edited by Aeneas Veneratio; June 05, 2014 at 12:01 PM.
R2TW stance: Ceterum autem censeo res publica delendam esse
Domesticus
Re: Prostitution
Social Construct I say.
HATE SPEECH ISN'T REAL
Triggering
Re: Prostitution
Everyone can be wrong, just don't take that out into the dating world
http://www.amazon.com/The-Red-Queen-.../dp/0060556579
Might wanna look at that one.
"When I die, I want to die peacefully in my sleep, like Fidel Castro, not screaming in terror, like his victims."
My shameful truth.
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