In defence of the soviet Union

[Papay]

Ok i am not a communist and i am not a fan of the Soviet system however i want to clear some things out about the soviets because in my talks with other people regarding Soviet Union i see there are many misconceptions. There are certain myths that i feel that need to be debunked

MYTH 1 LENIN WAS A BLOODTHIRSTY DICTATOR

False.Lenin was a theorist that wanted to create a society in which the majority of the people were going to be happy.When he rose into power he suddenly realized that instead of governing a capitalist country ready to proceed to the next step of communism, he governed a chaotic country with feudalistic economy. In the chaos of civil war Lenin was forced to use terror however the enemies of the red army were even worse. More that 100.000 Jews were killed by the white army and various anti Bolshevik armies. Because the west supported these people the persecution of the Jews by anti Bolshevik factions during that period is one of the least known atrocities of the 20th century

MYTH 2 SOVIETS ALLIED WITH THE NAZIS

False.Both Stalin and Hitler knew that a war was inevitable.But no side wanted a war in 1939. Actually Stalin and the western powers had talks before WW2 regarding the possibility of an alliance. These talks lead nowhere because a)Soviets Union didnt shared a border with Germany and b) many western diplomats despised Soviet union more than Hitler. One year before the infamous Molotov-Ribbentrop pact the west had signed the Munich agreement that was actually an agreement to destroy Czechoslovakia in favor of Germany.In fact both sides did whatever they could to guide Nazi troops in the other side thus avoiding the war

MYTH 3 THE WESTERN POWERS AND THE SOVIETS ΕQUALLY CONTRIBUTED IN THE DEFEAT OF THE NAZIS

False.No doubt the west was fighting the Nazis before 1944 particularly in North Africa and Italy and actually even before Nazi and Soviet start to fight in 1941.However by the time that US allied forced landed in Normandy it was only a matter of time before the war was going to end favorably for the allies. Stats depict the truth.More that 5.000.000 German and other allied to them soldiers were killed there. More than 10.000.000 soldiers were killed or taken prisoner there.In the western front around 1.000.000 soldiers were captured or killed.Note that the best units were stationed in the east.In the end Soviets captured Berlin.

MYTH 4 STALIN WAS PERSONALLY RESPONSIBLE FOR THE MILLIONS OF DEATHS

False.Soviet Union was a huge country and in no way could Stalin know what is happening in places as far as Tajikistan or Siberia.Stalin wanted to execute some political rivals but his inferiors capitulated from the climate to execute their rivals also. Many followers of Stalin were killed in this manner.Stalin has the biggest responsibility for these crimes because as a leader of the nation he supported terrorism(but terror got out of control). In 1939 he publicly admitted that "many mistakes" had happened(an unusual addmition by a dictator)

MYTH 5 THE US WON THE COLD WAR BECAUSE IT HAD A BETTER SYSTEM

This is partially true but other elements must be brought of. Firstly communism was established in a country vast, thats true but isolated. This country was destroyed twice in WWI and in WWII.After WWII it gained some influence internationally but still the two camps were not equal.The west from the begining to the end had the upper hand.Soviet union had to pick up the rabble after ww2 while US only saw a couple of attacks by Japanese aircraft.So Soviets had to run a marathon while the Americans were running a 200m sprint. We really do not know what would happen if we saw the other way around
( a world with 135 communist countries and 15 capitalistic). I doubt if capitalism could survive
What someone could say about Capitalism is that it evolved and took many "communist" elements and therefore communism lost many of its arguments

MYTH 6 THE DISSOLUTION OF SOVIET UNION WAS THE RESULT OF THE DICTATORSHIP

False.The dissolution was the result of glasnost and perestroika.The dissolution was the result of "democritizing". In fact the dissolution could be considered the biggest democratic act of the 20th century since with minimal bloodshet a huge country was divided into pieces( when america faced a similar fate it prefered the path of the civil war)

[Lord Oda Nobunaga]

"he publicly admitted that "many mistakes" had happened(an unusual addmition by a dictator)"

I am pretty sure that Hitler, Mussolini and Franco also made this admission.

Hitler particularly because he let Himmler do what ever he wanted in the Eastern Front which allowed for less support from the Baltic peoples, other Soviet controlled states and the Ukrainians. I think Hitler was also pretty pissed at Hess for doing a solo mission to Britain and he was pretty displeased that Ernst Rom had been executed (although by his orders but he did wish it hadn't been that way).

[Love Mountain]

Myth 4. Same could be said about Hitler. You think he knew or kept up with every concentration camp in existence? It doesn't matter how many murders the man was "personally responsible" for. The fact is that he intentionally cause them or are the purges too small of a number? This wasn't a case of "doing what is necessary," but more so of being completely ruthless.

Now the funny thing is that I grew up with Soviet/Russian propaganda having been born in Uzbekistan and lived there for half of my life. There are many things you say that have are very true, in my opinion, but some thing are just plain fact. Capitalism is a better system. There is no other way around that fact. The majority of Russians and minorities living in Russia, a number of whom immigrated to the West, have stated that they feel Capitalism is the better political ideology. It's not through some random chatter either, rather it was a direct discussion about history and how they feel about it. Quite frankly, many feel cheated by their former motherland.

[Sar1n]

Some facts about why are you wrong:

Lenin: Marxism-Leninism teaches creating a communistic country using violence, dictature and oppression. That's plain fact. Perhaps Lenin viewed genocide as necessary evil...but so did Hitler.

Molotov-Ribbentrop pact was an alliance. It didn't last long, but it was, with a specific purpose to divide a neutral country between Germany and Soviet Union. I won't deny that Allies did a similar thing at Munich, but it does not change the fact. Besides, some of my relatives were living there, at the new border of Germany and Soviet Union, so I know from first and second hand accounts that Soviets actually treated civilians there worse than Nazis.

Especially during first year of German invasion, but it continued for the whole war, Allies supplied USSR with large amount of humanitarian and military material. Ever heard of lend-lease program? And when the Germany was engaged by USSR, Allies made good use of that, destroying German economy and infrastructure, even taking Italy during 1943. Soviet losses were so huge because of their war philosophy of "we have reserves". A rifle was more worth for USSR than a soldier.

A leader that does not know what's happening in his country is no leader. If you want illustration about what kind of man Stalin was, I'll have just one word for you. Ukrainians called it holodomor. In 1932, as a direct result of Stalin's forced switch in agriculture on Ukraine from small and medium private farms to a soviet collectivization, with apparently purposely counter-productive change of crops to industrial types, Ukraine was stricken with famine. USSR deliberately did not release its own food reserves to diminish it, and even implemented laws that effectively deepened it. Even conservative estimates give death toll of over 3 milion. Reason? The population of Ukraine, especially the small landowner class, kulaks, wasn't conforming to soviet rule. The event is officially recognized as genocide in many countries. And don't even get me started on gulags, that were personally supported by Stalin. Even Stalin himself was rejected by his successors, and for the regime that was built on propaganda, lies and manipulating the population to create and illusion of perfect state, that's something BIG.

History of Soviet Union shows us precisely why the communist economic system can't work. From the start, pre-planned economic development by people with little to no economic education and experience (after all, advancement in the Party was based on loyalty and mindless following of ideals, not skills) is obviously a bad idea. Communism specifically disobeys the supply and demand principle, a base of self-regulating mechanisms of capitalism. Despite all attempts, the gap created by it is still visible on every country that was under Soviet influence. I know, I live in one.

When it was obvious that communistic machine is losing its grip on people, perestroika was an attempt to gradually transform the USSR to more open, socialistic state. It backfired, leading to wave of revolutions across whole USSR and its satellite states. Reason why it was so peaceful was because it turned out there was nobody left willing to fight for communism.

[torongill]

Sukiyama, Papay does not question that. What he is pointing at is that the USSR and the Warsaw Pact had to start from a much lower point and overcome much greater difficulties. The US never lost so much of its infrastructure, its labor force or wealth. And the Russians had to do it after a defeat in WW1 and a civil war that makes ACW look like a friendly rough-up in the sandbox.

Rememeber who was the president that won the Cold war? That's the same guy who quadripled the debt of the USA to pay for new toys for the Pentagon. The Russians didn't have the same access to resources and if they had tried to match the expenditure, they would've destroyed their economy. That's why they decided to give up the Cold war. The problem is in something else - the translation to free economy and democracy was done too fast, too mishandled and botched. There was no time for the people to adjust. If it had been done properly Russia wouldn't have an oligarcy of billionaires that leave millions in abject poverty and misery.

P.S. The lend-lease program was very important, but could not substitute for the fact that the Russians were fighting the might of the Wehrmacht alone. Rommel was stopped at El Alamein, but one of the chief reasons was that Hitler was sending everything to Russia.
P.S.S. After the desperate days of the summer and winter of 1942 the Russians began implementing their doctrine, which was neither composed around human waves, nor mindless frontal attacks. They were still much less trained than the German soldiers and worse equipped on the lowest infantry level, but began offsetting these disadvantages by concentrating their artillery and tanks. The Russians had to learn by trial of fire, whereas the Allies could learn by the limited scale combat in Africa and utilise these lessons for the time when they decided to open the second front.

The West has practically no idea what facing the real Wehrmacht was. Actually they did get a taste of that in the early months of the Africa campaign when Rommel had enough supplies and set a world record for advance with combat.

[Rijul.J.Ballal]

Look the Soviet union tried to achieve something noble. But it could not achieve it because it refused to make exceptions, it tried to control everything, it went against every thing economics taught us, it strained the government to such a point that it was not possible for it to do anything right,and more importantly it went against human nature. Where it tried to free people it ended up making them slaves..

[NRohirrim]

MYTH 1 LENIN WAS A BLOODTHIRSTY DICTATOR

False.Lenin was a theorist that wanted to create a society in which the majority of the people were going to be happy.When he rose into power he suddenly realized that instead of governing a capitalist country ready to proceed to the next step of communism, he governed a chaotic country with feudalistic economy. In the chaos of civil war Lenin was forced to use terror however the enemies of the red army were even worse. More that 100.000 Jews were killed by the white army and various anti Bolshevik armies. Because the west supported these people the persecution of the Jews by anti Bolshevik factions during that period is one of the least known atrocities of the 20th century

Many Jews in Eastern Europe were communists, so that was part of the fight. And do U realize how many other people died, especially Russians? Bolsheviks were terroryzing everybody. For example: in many cities they were shooting right in front of train. So yes, Lenin was a bloodthirsty dictator. And Stalin even more.

MYTH 2 SOVIETS ALLIED WITH THE NAZIS

False.Both Stalin and Hitler knew that a war was inevitable.But no side wanted a war in 1939. Actually Stalin and the western powers had talks before WW2 regarding the possibility of an alliance. These talks lead nowhere because a)Soviets Union didnt shared a border with Germany and b) many western diplomats despised Soviet union more than Hitler. One year before the infamous Molotov-Ribbentrop pact the west had signed the Munich agreement that was actually an agreement to destroy Czechoslovakia in favor of Germany.In fact both sides did whatever they could to guide Nazi troops in the other side thus avoiding the war

a) Yes, they did, from XI 39'.
b) But if Soviets wouldn't sign Molotov-Ribbentrop pact, nazi Germany would have no guts to attack.

MYTH 3 THE WESTERN POWERS AND THE SOVIETS ΕQUALLY CONTRIBUTED IN THE DEFEAT OF THE NAZIS

False.No doubt the west was fighting the Nazis before 1944 particularly in North Africa and Italy and actually even before Nazi and Soviet start to fight in 1941.However by the time that US allied forced landed in Normandy it was only a matter of time before the war was going to end favorably for the allies. Stats depict the truth.More that 5.000.000 German and other allied to them soldiers were killed there. More than 10.000.000 soldiers were killed or taken prisoner there.In the western front around 1.000.000 soldiers were captured or killed.Note that the best units were stationed in the east.In the end Soviets captured Berlin.

That's true that USSR contributed more in the defeat of the axis. But U forgot to mention that many of Red Army soldiers were killed by political officers of USSR.

MYTH 4 STALIN WAS PERSONALLY RESPONSIBLE FOR THE MILLIONS OF DEATHS

False.Soviet Union was a huge country and in no way could Stalin know what is happening in places as far as Tajikistan or Siberia.

Yeah, sure. He was clearly aware about situation, because he was the one, who ordered to send people somewhere to far Siberia etc.

[Tiberios]

@ OP

About MYTH 1, Lenin was absolutely a ruthless and brutal dictator. The Red Army were used absolutely ruthlessly both against the Whites and against all other opponents. One example is the Tambov Rebellion against the Bolsheviks. Thousands, perhaps as many as over hundred thousands were brutally slaughtered by the Red Army as they tried to pacify the rebellion. The White Army and other counter revolutionaries were brutal and used terror tactics, that is true, but so did the Bolsheviks. While terrorist tactics might be understandable given the nature of civil wars, it cannot be jutsified in any way. The "but their enemy did it too" defense simply doesn't cut it.

So in short, Lenin's brutality and actions might be exaggerated by some, but there is no doubt that Lenin was one of the worst dictators in the 20th century. His actions show that.

As for the claim that the White Army was worse, do you have any source for that? Since the Bolsheviks were the winners, I think it's fair to claim that they were the worst, simply because their victory enabled them to carry out extensive reprisals afterwards and because they faced additional rebellions and opposition against them.

[PikeStance]

MYTH 1 LENIN WAS A BLOODTHIRSTY DICTATOR
False.Lenin was a theorist that wanted to create a society in which the majority of the people were going to be happy.When he rose into power he suddenly realized that instead of governing a capitalist country ready to proceed to the next step of communism, he governed a chaotic country with feudalistic economy. In the chaos of civil war Lenin was forced to use terror however the enemies of the red army were even worse. More that 100.000 Jews were killed by the white army and various anti Bolshevik armies. Because the west supported these people the persecution of the Jews by anti Bolshevik factions during that period is one of the least known atrocities of the 20th century

Claiming to be less evil than the other guy is not exactly a defense for your own evils.

MYTH 2 SOVIETS ALLIED WITH THE NAZIs
False.Both Stalin and Hitler knew that a war was inevitable.But no side wanted a war in 1939. Actually Stalin and the western powers had talks before WW2 regarding the possibility of an alliance. These talks lead nowhere because a)Soviets Union didnt shared a border with Germany and b) many western diplomats despised Soviet union more than Hitler. One year before the infamous Molotov-Ribbentrop pact the west had signed the Munich agreement that was actually an agreement to destroy Czechoslovakia in favor of Germany.In fact both sides did whatever they could to guide Nazi troops in the other side thus avoiding the war

Given the nature of the pact between Germany and the Soviet Union, I would tend to believe that the Soviets were being a little disingenuous. If Stalin would had dropped some of his demands he could had signed a treaty with the west. He opted not to...makes you wonder why?

MYTH 3 THE WESTERN POWERS AND THE SOVIETS ΕQUALLY CONTRIBUTED IN THE DEFEAT OF THE NAZIS
False.No doubt the west was fighting the Nazis before 1944 particularly in North Africa and Italy and actually even before Nazi and Soviet start to fight in 1941.However by the time that US allied forced landed in Normandy it was only a matter of time before the war was going to end favorably for the allies. Stats depict the truth.More that 5.000.000 German and other allied to them soldiers were killed there. More than 10.000.000 soldiers were killed or taken prisoner there.In the western front around 1.000.000 soldiers were captured or killed.Note that the best units were stationed in the east.In the end Soviets captured Berlin.

This has to be one of the childish arguments people make concerning WWII. There were several groups that contributed to the defeat of the Nazis. Most of the whining is among the western powers. This is the first I heard anyone not recognizing Soviet Union's sacrifices.

MYTH 4 STALIN WAS PERSONALLY RESPONSIBLE FOR THE MILLIONS OF DEATHS
False.Soviet Union was a huge country and in no way could Stalin know what is happening in places as far as Tajikistan or Siberia.Stalin wanted to execute some political rivals but his inferiors capitulated from the climate to execute their rivals also. Many followers of Stalin were killed in this manner.Stalin has the biggest responsibility for these crimes because as a leader of the nation he supported terrorism(but terror got out of control). In 1939 he publicly admitted that "many mistakes" had happened(an unusual addmition by a dictator)

Very cute, you constructed your own straw- man argument. The key word; "personally."
Stalin killed millions both directly and indirectly through his orders. There is just no way to sugar coat this. let's face it even the communist don't want anything to do with him,... you don't see him next to Che and Mao on t- shirts do you?

MYTH 5 THE US WON THE COLD WAR BECAUSE IT HAD A BETTER SYSTEM
This is partially true but other elements must be brought of. Firstly communism was established in a country vast, thats true but isolated. This country was destroyed twice in WWI and in WWII.After WWII it gained some influence internationally but still the two camps were not equal.The west from the begining to the end had the upper hand.Soviet union had to pick up the rabble after ww2 while US only saw a couple of attacks by Japanese aircraft.So Soviets had to run a marathon while the Americans were running a 200m sprint. We really do not know what would happen if we saw the other way around
( a world with 135 communist countries and 15 capitalistic). I doubt if capitalism could survive
What someone could say about Capitalism is that it evolved and took many "communist" elements and therefore communism lost many of its arguments

Communism (Totalitarianism/ socialism) just plain does not work---period. The best industry the soviet developed was military technology and it was the one with the fiercest competitor. Even China, it was the shift to capitalism that lifted China out of its rut!

MYTH 6 THE DISSOLUTION OF SOVIET UNION WAS THE RESULT OF THE DICTATORSHIP
False.The dissolution was the result of glasnost and perestroika.The dissolution was the result of "democritizing". In fact the dissolution could be considered the biggest democratic act of the 20th century since with minimal bloodshet a huge country was divided into pieces( when america faced a similar fate it prefered the path of the civil war)

The American Civil War was not started because we given people greater voice in government, so your analogy is hopelessly bad here. The Soviet Union was suffering from a slow death; glasnost and perestroika just hastened it.

---

[Lord Oda Nobunaga]

False statement is that Marxism teaches to conquer the country in a bloody revolt and use oppression, Marx never stated what on should do but instead said that the rich would never give up their power unless the lower classes took it by force. Which in all reality is true.
He also never instructed anyone to be an oppressor but only to change society so that it works for the benefit of society as a whole instead of for the few rich people. Marx never actually said what to do once the revolution had happened except to change society. He never intended to make it into a regime as he was too confident that the revolution would change society so that there was no need of a central authority to rule but collective group of people that could decided what was best for everyone.

[Sar1n]

False statement is that Marxism teaches to conquer the country in a bloody revolt and use oppression, Marx never stated what on should do but instead said that the rich would never give up their power unless the lower classes took it by force. Which in all reality is true.
He also never instructed anyone to be an oppressor but only to change society so that it works for the benefit of society as a whole instead of for the few rich people. Marx never actually said what to do once the revolution had happened except to change society. He never intended to make it into a regime as he was too confident that the revolution would change society so that there was no need of a central authority to rule but collective group of people that could decided what was best for everyone.

That's why I said Marxism-Leninism. That was actually term commonly used by communist propaganda here. It builds upon marxistic ideas by outlining a process to create communistic state by, guess what, totalitarian rule and oppression.

[Lord Oda Nobunaga]

I know it was a term, but I assumed you were referring to Marx and Lenin and not the term. But yes Marxist Leninism is bad and oppressive. If anything Nazi Germany seemed to be more laissez faire with its citizens than Marxist Leninism or Stalinism.

Contrary to popular belief Lenin was not proud of Stalin for oppressing Georgia, in fact Lenin was quite angry with Stalin.

[Inkie]

MYTH 4 STALIN WAS PERSONALLY RESPONSIBLE FOR THE MILLIONS OF DEATHS

False.Soviet Union was a huge country and in no way could Stalin know what is happening in places as far as Tajikistan or Siberia.Stalin wanted to execute some political rivals but his inferiors capitulated from the climate to execute their rivals also. Many followers of Stalin were killed in this manner.Stalin has the biggest responsibility for these crimes because as a leader of the nation he supported terrorism(but terror got out of control). In 1939 he publicly admitted that "many mistakes" had happened(an unusual addmition by a dictator)

Soo...basically, you're saying that Stalin was a little less of a brutal dictator than he is perceived to be...but he wasn't the only one! Tons of other Soviet government officials were killing each other as well! Also he said sorry.

This one just kind of stands out to me, meaning amid all the rest of the "mythbusting" you did. How is the above statement a defence of the Soviet Union? It would be much more conducive to your agenda if you were to try to make Stalin seem like the exception that ruined utopia, which is the route usually taken.

[Col. Tartleton]

I was just thinking. Why does it matter if you're "evil" or not?

As Stalin wisely pointed out, the body count doesn't matter, it's the impact you have on history. Hitler and Stalin are giants. We can't get over them. Every time someone does something we don't like it's instantly compared to Hitler and Stalin, to the Nazis and Soviets. They've become boogie men haunting our past. We defeated those systems, but they left deep scars which will continue to spawn their descendants. Nazi Fascism and Stalinist Communism are here to stay. We can't quite see it now, but in time there will be movements to "Restore the Glory That Was Once Germany". The Germans are still German. The Russians are still Russian. The Iron Cross and the Red Star have gone nowhere. The Swastika is gone for the moment and the hammer and sickle have been replaced once more by the Romanov Eagle, but these things will come and go. However they will of course be in competition with the German and Russian Empires they replaced. Likewise Britain may rise again. The US may slide back into relative obscurity. We can't see what the future will look like.

The Mongols will forever be somewhat Romantic figures even if the Genghisids killed roughly 10-20% of the people in the world... I mean, hey, some people just need a good killing.

We're still living in the period of history that's heavily biased by WW2. Our grandparents and great grandparents fought and experienced those years. Our grand kids will be as detached from WW2 as we are from the Crimean War or American Civil Wars and their grandchildren will be as divorced from WW2 as we from the Napoleonic Wars and their grandchildren from the seven years war. Honestly outside of us history lovers who even knows what the 7 year war was? We may have heard of the French and Indian Wars, but only vaguely, as a precursor to the American state. What about their grandchildren? Will they look back at the Spanish Succession and Great Northern War? Their grand kids To the 30 Years and English Civil War? Their grand kids to the fall of Constantinople? Their descendants to the Hundred Years War, the Guelphs and Ghibellines, the Sicilian Vespers, the Reconquista?

We don't care that Charles of Anjou had Conradin of Hohenstaufen killed do we?

WHO?

Odds are in a thousand years Hitler will be the man to whom space colonization is credited to.

Sorry Jack Kennedy you're an irrelevant blip on history. Hitler killed like 100 million people and his Vergeltungswaffen rockets changed history. If you want to get remembered you've got to do something important. Wernher von Braun will be mentioned, but akin to Orban next to Mehmed II.

[I WUB PUGS]

I know I'm not adding anything, but this thread is pretty terrible. The "Facts" are horribly biased and the only ones I feel like debating have to do with WWII and have already been hammered by dozens of people in like 3 other threads.

[Meelis13]

MYTH 2 SOVIETS ALLIED WITH THE NAZIS

False.Both Stalin and Hitler knew that a war was inevitable.But no side wanted a war in 1939. Actually Stalin and the western powers had talks before WW2 regarding the possibility of an alliance. These talks lead nowhere because a)Soviets Union didnt shared a border with Germany and b) many western diplomats despised Soviet union more than Hitler. One year before the infamous Molotov-Ribbentrop pact the west had signed the Munich agreement that was actually an agreement to destroy Czechoslovakia in favor of Germany.In fact both sides did whatever they could to guide Nazi troops in the other side thus avoiding the war

MYTH 3 THE WESTERN POWERS AND THE SOVIETS ΕQUALLY CONTRIBUTED IN THE DEFEAT OF THE NAZIS

False.No doubt the west was fighting the Nazis before 1944 particularly in North Africa and Italy and actually even before Nazi and Soviet start to fight in 1941.However by the time that US allied forced landed in Normandy it was only a matter of time before the war was going to end favorably for the allies. Stats depict the truth.More that 5.000.000 German and other allied to them soldiers were killed there. More than 10.000.000 soldiers were killed or taken prisoner there.In the western front around 1.000.000 soldiers were captured or killed.Note that the best units were stationed in the east.In the end Soviets captured Berlin.

MYTH 4 STALIN WAS PERSONALLY RESPONSIBLE FOR THE MILLIONS OF DEATHS

False.Soviet Union was a huge country and in no way could Stalin know what is happening in places as far as Tajikistan or Siberia.Stalin wanted to execute some political rivals but his inferiors capitulated from the climate to execute their rivals also. Many followers of Stalin were killed in this manner.Stalin has the biggest responsibility for these crimes because as a leader of the nation he supported terrorism(but terror got out of control). In 1939 he publicly admitted that "many mistakes" had happened(an unusual addmition by a dictator)

MYTH 5 THE US WON THE COLD WAR BECAUSE IT HAD A BETTER SYSTEM

This is partially true but other elements must be brought of. Firstly communism was established in a country vast, thats true but isolated. This country was destroyed twice in WWI and in WWII.After WWII it gained some influence internationally but still the two camps were not equal.The west from the begining to the end had the upper hand.Soviet union had to pick up the rabble after ww2 while US only saw a couple of attacks by Japanese aircraft.So Soviets had to run a marathon while the Americans were running a 200m sprint. We really do not know what would happen if we saw the other way around
( a world with 135 communist countries and 15 capitalistic). I doubt if capitalism could survive
What someone could say about Capitalism is that it evolved and took many "communist" elements and therefore communism lost many of its arguments

im too lazy to read all replies, so here i go to the points you have CLEARLY mislead (only points i do agree is with points 1 and 6

reply to myth 2 (soviets and nazis were allies):
fact is, that soviets (USSR) and nazis (3rd reich) WERE allies both officially (MRP) and unofficially until nazis invaded USSR (well, im speaking of countries here, not parties). True, it was uneasy alliance at best, but still an alliance. There are documents, that clearly show, how soviets and nazis were helping eachother before infamous invasion (including that german death camps were actually based on soviet camps). Stalin can be considered major player in this one- he ACTUALLY wanted to unleash WORLD war, so he did all he could to give Hitler the security he needed to go to war against allies. Quote from Stalin in one communist party congress (it was written down unofficially, since it couldnt reach to western public): "We must do EVERYTHING we can to push Germany into another world war with the west, so that we can simply sit back until they weaken eachother and to step into war in moment that suit us to unleash communist world revolution!".
Also, in later time, when USSR and Germany went to war with eachother and in fact, when gemany was already in retreat, Stalin tried to contact Hitler to forge a new alliance.
so, they actually were allies, but its true that it was uneasy at best

Myth 3 (soviets were main reason of defeat of nazis)
FALSE! while yes, it is true, that soviets did destroy nazis best units, they couldnt have done it without 3 very important factors
1- 24/7 bombing. western allies bombed Germany 24/7, crippling german economy and more importantly- war prodution. It also forced germans to bring more and more planes and anti aircraft weapons from soviet front to battle with allies, leaving frontline more vulnerable
2- cold winters. Importance of cold winters of exactly in most crucial years CANNOT be overestimated. While soviets were prepared for winter, germans often didnt have even decent autumn uniform, let alone winter. They also werent to prepare to fight in winter in general, so it was rather easy for soviets to advance under cover of cold. Winter was real destroyer of Nazi war machine, not soviets
3- bad co-operation between axis countries. This is also actually very important one- if germans could have convinced japanese to attack USSR with even relatively small force in most crucial time, its highly likely, that USSR would have been overrun and defeated within few weeks, because most training camps and factories were moved to striking distance of Japan after germans attacked

WW2, like most other wars, is often viewed only trough battle wins and losses, not the strategical and economical backround, grave mistake

Myth 4(stalin wasnt responsible)
FALSE! Stalin actually KNEW and in fact he ORDERED to kill millions. Basically as older he got, the more his goal was to start ww3 (his death stopped his plan before he could actually provoke west enough) and to create horror society inside USSR. Quote from book "Absurdi impeerium" ("Empire of absurd"- author has lived in and researched soviet union troughly, including hundreds of documents, really good book): "in times of Stalin, one man got deported just because he played violin in his apartment in evenings, alone. Playing violin in among friends or concert was tolerated, but playing violin alone in evenings? that was suspicious." bit later: "Soviet person had to think, that he has no control over his/her life, but god Stalin, who can just let anyone be killed randomly"
also, you have to remember, that Stalin wanted soiety to fear him and that he was the one who ordered deportations, mass excecutions, etc. sure, he cant be considered responsible for all authority murders during his rule, but he sure can be considered to be directly responsible (and having knowledge of) for over 95 percent of those. i know it can be hard for person born and grown in free world to understand, but check the records

Myth 5 (soviets lost because they had to come longer way)
that, actually, is half-true, but not completely. By statistics, soviet and USA economies were quite equal during Kruschev, with USSR even having slightly better stats in some areas. True, if you compare actual living conditions, USSR was far behind. But when Brežnev came to power, soon situation was even worse than during zar times.
Also, if you look at the economy, you see, that soviets restored economy unproportionally, with war industry taking major priority

[torongill]

About the 24/7 bombing campaign, it began in earnest in 1943 and was hardly day and night, that's one. Second, the results were so poor in the beginning and losses so heavy, at one time it became statistically impossible for a bomber crew to finish the 26 mission tour. In fact, if you check the production values of the Third Reich, you will probably see that 1944 was the year when they finally decentralised production and the results were absolute peak values. But by then it was too late - fuel became very scarce(due to the loss of the Romanian oil fields), Germany was forced to fight on two fronts and the closer location of airfields allowed the Mustangs to maintain a constant sweep of the German skies.

The lack of winter clothing was crucial during the first year. Afterwards it wasn't that bad, although the Russians still had an advantage. As for the claim that the winter was the real reason for the destruction of the Wehrmacht, that's pure silliness, unless you think that the Wehrmacht was destroyed in the winter of 1941-1942 and afterwards it was a leasurely stroll towards Berlin for the Red Army.

If the Germans were ill prepared for the first winter, the Japanese were doubly less so. It's insane to claim that the Japanese had the capability to advance in the vast emptiness of Syberia with winter closing in fast(yeah, Halhin Gol taught them not to mess with the Russians unless they absolutely had to). And also unless you say the Japanese had strategic bombers, they were ridiculously out of striking distance of the new factories in Syberia.

[Sar1n]

It wasn't just bombing campaign that helped Soviets. From the start of operation Barbarossa onward, they were given great amount of war and humanitarian material by allies. Read something about PQ-QP convoys. It's not like allies sat by idle when soviets were fighting.

[torongill]

I have read quite a lot about the lend-lease. In fact the Pacific route was the most extensively used; the Arctic convoys represented the least of the three with 23%, but the advantage was that it was the shortest from Britain. It was also the most dangerous and horrifying for the ship crews. And I am not trying to diminish the effort of the Allies, the logistical capacity provided by the Lend-Lease was to a great extent what enabled the Soviet advance to proceed smoothly and effectively and bring the soviet firepower to bear. But while the lend-lease provided all that, it was no Second Front. The ability of the Germans to put practically everything they had on the ground to face the Red army instead of tearing their forces in two across the whole of Europe had terrible results for the Soviets.

The first that I learned of the Arctic convoys was accidentally picking a book at the library called "HMS Ulysses" by Alistair McLean back when nobody knew of Monica Lewinsky. I highly recommend it.

[Dromikaites]

Lenin WAS a blood thirsty dictator. He might have had the mitigating circumstances of being allegedly in the terminal stage of syphilis when he came to power. Nevertheless he did set up the first concentration camps and ordered the first mass killings which would become two of Stalin's tools for repression.

A Russian article published in the English language and summarizing the role of Lenin in laying the foundations of the repressive state can be found here.

And now a comment about methodology: if one wants to debunk something, it is advisable one first knows what needs to be debunked.

If the issue is, say, Lenin as a blood thirsty dictator, then one needs first to be well acquainted with the reasons why "the myth" says Lenin was such.

Then one needs to demolish the elements constructing the myth, one by one, using reputed sources while doing so.