Historical Rome Total War 1.0 (HRTW) [WIP]

[TwoKnives]

Good point Edorix. The problem is that for some reason, the team of this mod is active only on the other thread, so you should re-post your information there.

[hameleona]

We are active everywhere
PS: When i said useless i meant as a faction. Not that they wore lesser people, ore something. Just clarifying

[TwoKnives]

We are active everywhere
PS: When i said useless i meant as a faction. Not that they wore lesser people, ore something. Just clarifying

I understood, but they were far from useless even as a faction. They scared the out of their opponents (literally) with all the warpaint, they were skilled warriors, and had very good LIGHT MELEE infantry. To be honest, light infantry in vanilla is unrealistically weak, and heavy infantry unrealistically strong.

Now, I'm going to explain what roles they really played. Light melee infantry were lightly armoured (obvious) and were used for guarding flanks, flanking the enemy, assisting heavy infantry (sometimes even cavalry) etc. Usually big and tall non-noble men served this role. They almost always carried shield for more protection mostly against archers, and were weak against cavalry, but if they used spears, they could fend off against light cavalry. The charge of this kind of infantry was more powerful than the charge of the heavy infantry, since the former can gain speed more quickly than the later (I would explain why does this happen with the terminology used in physics, but since English is not my native language, I won't because I will surely make fatal mistakes).

Heavy infantry on the other hand, was used for doing frontal attack, hacking the enemy lines and (sometimes) countering enemy cavalry. They were slow, because they were heavily armoured, but overall were better fighters than light infantry, however the later usually had numbers in their advantage, so that doesn't mean that heavy infantry always wins when matched up against the light one.

[hameleona]

I understood, but they were far from useless even as a faction. They scared the out of their opponents (literally) with all the warpaint, they were skilled warriors, and had very good LIGHT MELEE infantry. To be honest, light infantry in vanilla is unrealistically weak, and heavy infantry unrealistically strong.

Now, I'm going to explain what roles they really played. Light melee infantry were lightly armoured (obvious) and were used for guarding flanks, flanking the enemy, assisting heavy infantry (sometimes even cavalry) etc. Usually big and tall non-noble men served this role. They almost always carried shield for more protection mostly against archers, and were weak against cavalry, but if they used spears, they could fend off against light cavalry. The charge of this kind of infantry was more powerful than the charge of the heavy infantry, since the former can gain speed more quickly than the later (I would explain why does this happen with the terminology used in physics, but since English is not my native language, I won't because I will surely make fatal mistakes).

Heavy infantry on the other hand, was used for doing frontal attack, hacking the enemy lines and (sometimes) countering enemy cavalry. They were slow, because they were heavily armoured, but overall were better fighters than light infantry, however the later usually had numbers in their advantage, so that doesn't mean that heavy infantry always wins when matched up against the light one.

speed is not the only thing in a charge. Mass is too
mainland celts, iberians, germans, dacians, thracians and scithians/sarmatians need to be factions. They had their shots to glory. Ok, maybe except my ancestors. Britons... brotons are a great faction for a mini-mod (and i've wondered, why no one ever made one), but on the global scheme... their insignificant. Just another celt tribe that didn't even tried to consolidate, whats left for world domination.
That's my point of view. So, yes, their are insignificant. Nothing personal.

[TwoKnives]

speed is not the only thing in a charge. Mass is too
mainland celts, iberians, germans, dacians, thracians and scithians/sarmatians need to be factions. They had their shots to glory. Ok, maybe except my ancestors. Britons... brotons are a great faction for a mini-mod (and i've wondered, why no one ever made one), but on the global scheme... their insignificant. Just another celt tribe that didn't even tried to consolidate, whats left for world domination.
That's my point of view. So, yes, their are insignificant. Nothing personal.

Well, mass is indeed important in a charge, but only when the object is fast enough. That's why a charge of a unit of heavy cavalry is better than the charge of a unit of light cavalry, but it doesn't work the same way with infantry since its slower than cavalry. Anyway that is out of topic.

Britons didn't have their shots to glory like the other factions you mentioned, but that's the purpose of the game, right? To give even to the most insignificant tribe their shots to glory and change the course of history . And by your ancestors, you mean the Thracians, I guess? Well, they indeed deserve the faction slot. They were not advanced as the greeks,but they were more advanced than the Illyrians. Thracians at least had an alphabet, witch was very similar to the greek one, if not the same, whilst there are no records of an alphabet used by the Illyrians. Also just like the illyrians, the thracians were brave and skilled warriors with a unique culture.

[Asgaroth]

[*] The British general should have a mail coat and a cloak, but no helmet: no helmets for use in battle have been found in Britain in an Iron Age context. NONE. The famous battersea helmet with the horns has too small a circumference to have been worn by an adult and may have adorned an effigy of a god. The Gaulish general should also have a simple mail coat, not the weird layered cuirass thing they have in-game at the moment, however the Gauls are allowed helmets - not the one in-game though, it should basically be like a Roman helmet, not very tall and with the cheek-pieces.[*] The Britons should not have any archer units. Archery was not practised in Iron Age Britain except during the Earliest Iron Age (which is actually the Bronze Age, but anyway).[*] The British units should all have warpaint. We do not have any pictorial evidence for the patterns they used, and the written evidence is vague - but I can provide some evidence to use as inspiration, and examples of half-finished skins I have made which could be considered fairly decent guesses. We do know that their tattoos were more light blue (not dark as is generally thought), and we know they painted themselves with stylised animals among other patterns. Let me know when you want what I've got.[*] British shields should all be either oval (like the vanilla warband shield) or hide-shaped (like the vanilla warband shield, but with semi circles cut out of top and bottom). Round shields are conspicuously absent from the archaeological record, although they were the norm in the Bronze Age and post-Roman period. This applies almost as well to the Gauls, by the way; round shields should be only for cavalry. Those enormous round shields which the late general's bodyguards have are completely ahistorical for any of the barbarian factions.

I think that's enough to be going on with...

I like your ideas very much.

[TwoKnives]

I like your ideas very much.

They're not ideas. They're facts.

[hameleona]

Let me finish the hoplites that we have started, and i'll start modeling the gauls.

@TwoKnives
since you look loaded with knowledge wore the hexagonal shields uset (the vanila naked fanatics are with that type of shield).



Those shields i mean/

[TwoKnives]

Let me finish the hoplites that we have started, and i'll start modeling the gauls.

@TwoKnives
since you look loaded with knowledge wore the hexagonal shields uset (the vanila naked fanatics are with that type of shield).

Yes, I know, but i am not "loaded with knowledge", please avoid using sarcasm, I know that you are tired because you are working hard on the units, but it is not an excuse for being rude. As for the shield shape, the hexagonal one is just another version of the oval shield, but the oval shields were actually bigger and longer. I can't describe it correctly so please refer to this link. http://wildfiregames.com/0ad/pages/p...ic_shields.JPG

[hameleona]

Actually "loaded with knowledge" has a positive meaning in Bulgarian. Means smart, educated person. Didn't mean it as an offence. I apologies, didn't meant for it to be an offense.

[TwoKnives]

Actually "loaded with knowledge" has a positive meaning in Bulgarian. Means smart, educated person. Didn't mean it as an offence. I apologies, didn't meant for it to be an offense.

OOOH, I see. I'm sorry. I misunderstood because in Albanian is used in a sarcastic form usually (but not always).

[hameleona]

Ok, then, since we have settled that, here it comes the second question! :d
I never imagined half naked gauls, the way CA made them. When i edit their units, should i give them clothes? Or armor? How often was armor used by the celtic tribes in gaul?

[TwoKnives]

Ok, then, since we have settled that, here it comes the second question! :d
I never imagined half naked gauls, the way CA made them. When i edit their units, should i give them clothes? Or armor? How often was armor used by the celtic tribes in gaul?

Some did fight half-naked, so we leave a couple of units the way they are. Most Gauls fought using leather armour, and sometimes a light mail shirt. The nobility on the other hand used heavy chain-mail form the shoulder to their feet and helmets. Usually above the chain-mail they wore a shirt to keep their body temperature constant.

So light infantry should have leather armour, so you give them normal clothes, heavy non-noble infantry should have a light mail shirt, so you give them a light mail shirt and normal pants, noble infantry should have full armour with a shirt on top of it. They should also ahve a helmet unlike other troops. You should use the same concept for cavalry.

Also, do you need help with the shields and weapons? If so just ask.

[hameleona]

Well, for 1.0 i'm keeping the vanilla ones (i'll only add a new oval shield). But i cant find a unit with leather armor in RTW... Witch makes adding it somewhat complicated. I suppose you didn't mean leather armor in the hoplite leather armor? Or am i wrong?

[TwoKnives]

Well, for 1.0 i'm keeping the vanilla ones (i'll only add a new oval shield). But i cant find a unit with leather armor in RTW... Witch makes adding it somewhat complicated. I suppose you didn't mean leather armor in the hoplite leather armor? Or am i wrong?

Nope, i don't mean the hoplite one. I mean a shirt like the forester warband or the barbarian mercenaries have. In the game it is treated as leather armour. or another type of shirt if you like.

[hameleona]

Yeah, i've saw that when rolling trough the textures. So... behold, my gallic spearmen.

[Asgaroth]

Yeah, i've saw that when rolling trough the textures. So... behold, my gallic spearmen.

Hey there.I am at school.I wanted to see if you made something.They look awesome!!...But don't post them here.This forum is not for work.Just place them in the other thread....We will start hoplites soon when I get home...

[fatape]

Are you going to balance out the slinger/skirmisher/archer balance that favored archers in vanilla? It's really weird how they have archer units with higher attack than javelin throwing skirmisher units.

Iberia should definitely get an upgrade from vanilla , they had good heavy cav that fought with Hannibal and historically good light infantry that could fight pitch battles and skirmish. Along with flaming javelins but you probably couldn't code them into the game.

Anyhow good luck, I'd really like to see a good mod not deviating too far from vanilla.

[ahowl11]

we will look into it.. we will be focusing on those aspects later after we make units, but iberia will look different

[RonaldAniban]

What I would like to suggest is to make battles realistic. Make melee battles faster (in vanilla they fight very unrealistically slow), prevent the ability of legionaries to throw spears while in melee, fix wedge formation (it doesn't work well in large/huge unit size), and a lot more. Oh and also make arrows very lethal against unarmoured units (peasants can sometimes survive arrows shot from 30 meters in vanilla).

Looking forward to this mod!
Sorry for my English.