Shogun 2 Realism (S2R)

[Agostinos]

I have not ETW or NTW ..Never mind.
MARKA horses are these.
Link
You can press my sig to see more varietions of them !

WOW!!! Why didn´t CA use these models?
By far the best horse models for any TW game. I assume they are made for M2TW so I dont think that there is a chance to use them for SII

[AnthoniusII]

WOW!!! Why didn´t CA use these models?
By far the best horse models for any TW game. I assume they are made for M2TW so I dont think that there is a chance to use them for SII

Yea they did them for M2TW but they already use diferend skeleton and animations and have much more polygons.
I am trying the last days to get an answer from CA members for the same question but no sound at all!
Any way if there is a tool to extract the skeleton of the SII horses it could be added to those models.
I could sent a model of them to you if you think that could be possible!

[Agostinos]

Yea they did them for M2TW but they already use diferend skeleton and animations and have much more polygons.
I am trying the last days to get an answer from CA members for the same question but no sound at all!
Any way if there is a tool to extract the skeleton of the SII horses it could be added to those models.
I could sent a model of them to you if you think that could be possible!

You can send me the models, but honestly I dont see a chance of using them in SII

[Osprey]

Should have a preview up tomorrow or the next day, of the many new changes and additions we have planned for the next beta release. Please continue to give us your thoughts and reports on the mod thus far, helps our design process.

Can't wait for new additions and changes, but .... [read in sarcasim] I am going to miss the unmanned AI garrisons, Easiest way to expand without starting war with neighbors was to have a monk incite riot, have ninja weaken opponent's army, cheer on the rebels [a.k.a Obama/UN "no fly zone"] and then after they succeed, march in and take territory. Too easy.

[DaVinci]

Can't wait for new additions and changes, but .... [read in sarcasim] I am going to miss the unmanned AI garrisons, Easiest way to expand without starting war with neighbors was to have a monk incite riot, have ninja weaken opponent's army, cheer on the rebels [a.k.a Obama/UN "no fly zone"] and then after they succeed, march in and take territory. Too easy.

... we will make sure, that also 1st tier castle has some garrisons, not only a single retainer unit

[Osprey]

Das gud, yah?

[Blizzard]

Haven't logged in since rtw, occasionally lurked on eb II forums. Wanted to tell you, good work folks with this mod and dare to suggest reducing the archer units (or at least ashigaru archers) number to half. Testing on your mod with modified multiplier revealed the gruesome truth of an average media of 6x400 ash.archers unit per army thrown by the AI against the player. I regard it as being totally unrealistic, plain nightmarish and somehow hilarious. The reduction might force the simplistic algorithm of the AI in computing army composition into rethinking its routines and allow the player to change their battle strategy from bowman hunting into medieval combat maneuvering. Like the Bushido skill tree declaims "The way of the bow" is an art; a somehow overlooked truth by whomever decided that arming rabble with bows can be as effective as arming them with crossbows. I even wonder if there were any bow ashigaru since the right to carry a bow might have had been next to the right to carry a samurai blade and the running warrior class of the time was reluctant in allowing peasants to carry any weapons outside of combat. While you can train a recruit, spiritually half absent and wandering on a rice field, pretending the war is already over or has never started, basic group maneuver discipline and handling an yari or naginata while in formation, i doubt trusting them to handle a weapon that requires the kind of subtlety that archery does was efficient and not to mention hazardous for your own health; nobody likes a novice sharpshooter behind your back especially in battle when you have to focus on enemy and not wonder if what makes you horo pop and crack might be the wind or may be friendly fire. Otherwise great job on the ronin units japan was filled with samurai without a master/clan with no other source of income (since along with their master they were loosing their feuds too) than their warrior skills and bushido training. It would be nice (if the code allows and a script can be made) and perhaps historical accurate, for them to regain the lost samurai status (by being granted feuds for merits in combat). I don't see why there aren't ronin archers units, they're more likely to be more historically accurate since they were nothing else than renegade samurai. All in all is enjoyable to take some time and watch the battle choreography your mod allows but I doubt a great deal of realism can be achieved outside of that with the current scripting game setup; in my opinion computer war-games ignore the most vital things in warfare: logistics, the ability to micromanage timing effectiveness and mobility in the field is a bit different than binary reductionism. Like in rtw the roman legion and greek phalanx were simplified to a group sharing a single weapon the rest of tw games followed that pattern. Combined arms isn't a modern concept but a modern term assumed after extensively studying an entire history of warfare... and regardless of how much the graphical polishing brings joy to the eye the depth of the action fails to remain more than a basic superficial slam-bam, thank you ma'am. Stripped of the graphical artists work and modder's enthusiasm for a quality experience stw2 it is the same stw1 receipt and the all the games that followed, nothing else than a receipt for blockbuster proven success that ignores history, strategy and respect for the consumer and hides behind Nvidia's shiny capacity to save the day. Quote Andy Warhol "art is what you get away with". Perhaps the world of gamers and modders should enter a geek rage phase and petition Nvidia or Ati or both for offering them the tool they need to build their own games and let the corporatist game industry to compete with indie entertainment made by people who enjoy a good experience, since they at best do nothing else than partially and calculatedly respond to requests that allow them to partially patch the profit in future planning. The marketing study is exclusively done on forum geeks and extrapolated to fit the mass of grey undecided, everything shiny-goers, pop listener , fan-girl/boy advertising receptive, sexually made unsure, cool driven and in search of a placebo individuality consumer.

[Osprey]

Dear Mr. DaVinci,

Please, do not remove the Horo. From what I have read, they are indeed historical and help me better babysit my General. Besides, I like the pretty ballons. If you're going to make any changes to Horo, might I suggest you alter some of the colors, or, you couls have some in the shape of bunnies, or giraffes or even hearts.

As my record producer Bruce Dickinson once said, "Guess what? I got a fever and the only prescription is more Horo balloons!"

Ditto Dickinson.

[man_utdmasta]

Anyone else getting a CTD?
Don't know whether it is the mod or the game itself

[Osprey]

Deleted

[Osprey]

Haven't logged in since rtw, occasionally lurked on eb II forums. Wanted to tell you, good work folks with this mod and dare to suggest reducing the archer units (or at least ashigaru archers) number to half. Testing on your mod with modified multiplier revealed the gruesome truth of an average media of 6x400 ash.archers unit per army thrown by the AI against the player. I regard it as being totally unrealistic, plain nightmarish and somehow hilarious. The reduction might force the simplistic algorithm of the AI in computing army composition into rethinking its routines and allow the player to change their battle strategy from bowman hunting into medieval combat maneuvering. Like the Bushido skill tree declaims "The way of the bow" is an art; a somehow overlooked truth by whomever decided that arming rabble with bows can be as effective as arming them with crossbows. I even wonder if there were any bow ashigaru since the right to carry a bow might have had been next to the right to carry a samurai blade and the running warrior class of the time was reluctant in allowing peasants to carry any weapons outside of combat. While you can train a recruit, spiritually half absent and wandering on a rice field, pretending the war is already over or has never started, basic group maneuver discipline and handling an yari or naginata while in formation, i doubt trusting them to handle a weapon that requires the kind of subtlety that archery does was efficient and not to mention hazardous for your own health; nobody likes a novice sharpshooter behind your back especially in battle when you have to focus on enemy and not wonder if what makes you horo pop and crack might be the wind or may be friendly fire. Otherwise great job on the ronin units japan was filled with samurai without a master/clan with no other source of income (since along with their master they were loosing their feuds too) than their warrior skills and bushido training. It would be nice (if the code allows and a script can be made) and perhaps historical accurate, for them to regain the lost samurai status (by being granted feuds for merits in combat). I don't see why there aren't ronin archers units, they're more likely to be more historically accurate since they were nothing else than renegade samurai. All in all is enjoyable to take some time and watch the battle choreography your mod allows but I doubt a great deal of realism can be achieved outside of that with the current scripting game setup; in my opinion computer war-games ignore the most vital things in warfare: logistics, the ability to micromanage timing effectiveness and mobility in the field is a bit different than binary reductionism. Like in rtw the roman legion and greek phalanx were simplified to a group sharing a single weapon the rest of tw games followed that pattern. Combined arms isn't a modern concept but a modern term assumed after extensively studying an entire history of warfare... and regardless of how much the graphical polishing brings joy to the eye the depth of the action fails to remain more than a basic superficial slam-bam, thank you ma'am. Stripped of the graphical artists work and modder's enthusiasm for a quality experience stw2 it is the same stw1 receipt and the all the games that followed, nothing else than a receipt for blockbuster proven success that ignores history, strategy and respect for the consumer and hides behind Nvidia's shiny capacity to save the day. Quote Andy Warhol "art is what you get away with". Perhaps the world of gamers and modders should enter a geek rage phase and petition Nvidia or Ati or both for offering them the tool they need to build their own games and let the corporatist game industry to compete with indie entertainment made by people who enjoy a good experience, since they at best do nothing else than partially and calculatedly respond to requests that allow them to partially patch the profit in future planning. The marketing study is exclusively done on forum geeks and extrapolated to fit the mass of grey undecided, everything shiny-goers, pop listener , fan-girl/boy advertising receptive, sexually made unsure, cool driven and in search of a placebo individuality consumer.

Someone PLEASE, call 911. I am lost somewhere in the middle of this post and can't find my way out. I'm so confused.

[Blackthorne]

I'm loving the mod so far. I especially like the slower battles, I actually have time to use tactics now. I also like that Samurai feel properly elite now, really like a class of their own.

A couple of things I think could do with tweaking though. Matchlock Ashigaru could do with some tweaking, they feel pretty weak for a unit that was historically so game changing. However the samurai versions are suitably nasty. My second small issue is that the bow hero is quite weak now since arrows aren't as effective as vanilla, they do well against Ashigaru but Samurai seem nearly imune to arrows now, losing only ~10 men on a straight charge over open ground.

Still, great mod though. Cheers.

[Ulster Confederate]

Anyone else getting a CTD?
Don't know whether it is the mod or the game itself

I wanted to try a single unit of Samurai against a unit of loan swords in a custom battle just to see who would win but kept getting a ctd . However when the loan sword unit was included in a full battle it loaded ok.

Please keep the Horo. This mod is about realism and its historically correct.

[Odin1970]

Someone PLEASE, call 911. I am lost somewhere in the middle of this post and can't find my way out. I'm so confused.

just read the last sentence, nothing else is necessary.

[St.Francis]

Yes I've been getting ctd also. Never had any with vanilla. I think I will wait until a more stable version is released.

[Blizzard]

Doubt 911 can solve short attention span.
I was suggesting halving the number of ashigaru archers.
Experienced the loan sword ctd too but in a siege this time.

[Drtad]

Dear Mr. DaVinci,

Please, do not remove the Horo. From what I have read, they are indeed historical and help me better babysit my General. Besides, I like the pretty ballons. If you're going to make any changes to Horo, might I suggest you alter some of the colors, or, you couls have some in the shape of bunnies, or giraffes or even hearts.

As my record producer Bruce Dickinson once said, "Guess what? I got a fever and the only prescription is more Horo balloons!"

Ditto Dickinson.

They will not be removed in S2Realism, but the mod is compatible with the "No Horo" mod, in case you change your mind. I'm ok with horos myself.

[Osprey]

Regarding no removal of Horo. YEAH!

Regarding Blizzard's last line ... CLASSIC! I am going to save that one.

[Demokritos]

This mod looks very good so far. Battles are felt like battles, needing a good deal of fighting to win. And both samurais and cavalry are more of a force to be reckoned with now, as they should be. I must say (contrary to some others, I think) that even the archer units appear pretty well balanced, too - at least better than before. I thought they were over-powered in vanilla, rendering heavy armor pretty much useless, but in S2R such expensive protection seems worth more. But two ashigaru archer units can still take down, from a safe distance, a whole general unit and a half of the samurai retainers trapped in a fort. I was wondering here if you've considered making a general unit more resistant to arrows on account of their wearing those horos (especially if targeted from behind, if such variety in efficiency is possible). Yes, keep the horos. Not only are they beautiful, and to some degree historically accurate, they're making one unit type stand out from the rest for some variety which there's already too little of in this game.

With ashigarus becoming the dominant part of most armies, I feared that the AI would fill most of its ranks with archers, and it often does, but one could take this as as a factor making cavalry all the more important to counter them. It's a tricky balance, however, to make certain unit types more rare and special (which I like the idea of) without this leading to people losing interest in the game too quickly due to the lack of variety in unit types. So I wondered if you guys think it's possible to eventually mod the ashigaru units to look a bit different from another. I mean, for example, did they always wear those hats?

[Blizzard]

For a war-game that claims itself historical(and that means exact and accurate information) outside of a vague DX9 graphical accuracy nothing is entirely historical. Starting with the "Bushido tree" and ending with re-inventing the wheel. The way I see a historical war game is the player being give a platform representing the reality of the time and the ability to micromanage its clan's warfare abilities. Instead the player gets a generic "fit-to-AI" simplistic inability to overcome an 11 years old conception. Along with graphical engine the perhaps the scripting has evolved too enough in order to compute and solve more complex algorithms.

Horos, along with the loading screens visuals and death poems and individual fight animations make all the atmosphere in this game.