Be a Modder: Doctoring of Medieval 2 units.

[Ayyubid]

Viewing it in Milkshape. I was able to convert them from texture to tga files, that wasn't the issue. The issue was that when I added the tga files ("attach_aux_arabrelig_diff.tga" and "aux_arabrelig_diff.tga" to the "Figure" and "Attachment" section of the Materials tab in milkshape, then saved, then selected 3D from the Projection menu, it doesn't show any changes.

[Gigantus]

You have to right click the blue display window and choose 'textured'

[Ayyubid]

Ok. What I had tried doing was adding the ere_elite_spearmen sword to dismounted askari nobles, all from BC, and it ended tragically lol but I retried with just making the secondary weapon the primary weapon of the askari nobles, and it worked fine. I was wondering, is their a tutorial for body inter-modding? Like for example, if I wanted to add Roman heavy armor, with the head and shield of an Islamic faction unit? A tutorial for that sort of thing?

[Gigantus]

There is something regarding merging models in the skin & model forum, I believe. You basically strip the first model of everything that you don't need and save (eg the weapon only), then strip the receiving model of the group(s) that you want to replace. GOAT has a merge function, use that. Then assign the group to the skeleton and sort out the skin (texture).

[Ayyubid]

So I can do this with a unit, in which I make it's own secondary weapon it's primary, but whenever I try this with merging a different weapon from another unit into my unit, it shows a skin in battles that has it's arms out to the side, has holes in it, is all blotched out, and is missing a head/legs, etc. Why does that happen? I tried adding a janissary halberd to a dismounted mamluk unit. I made the Janissary's attachments in the bmdb, the dismounted mamluk's attachments in the bmdb as well. I did the animations right, and the edu. What else is necessary? I feel like I followed all these steps properly. Any help?

[Gigantus]

Recommend reading, addresses all your above problems I believe: Unit Makers Tome of Knowledge

[Ayyubid]

Recommend reading, addresses all your above problems I believe: Unit Makers Tome of Knowledge

So I read everything regarding the modelDB and attachments in particular in the Unit Makers Tome of Knowledge. On page 24 it says that the attachments cover weapon and shield textures. The issue i'm having, is that I JUST want the sword texture, and cannot differentiate between which attachment has the shield or weapon texture. The specific issue, is that i'm trying to add a really cool Byzantine longsword to Islamic faction units in my mod. I don't want the shields, since having brightly colored byzantine shields, mostly with crosses, wouldn't look good or make sense on any of my Islamic faction units. Specifically, the ere_elite_spearmen from Broken Crescent, whose sword i'm trying to add to other units.

[paleologos]

So I read everything regarding the modelDB and attachments in particular in the Unit Makers Tome of Knowledge. On page 24 it says that the attachments cover weapon and shield textures. The issue i'm having, is that I JUST want the sword texture, and cannot differentiate between which attachment has the shield or weapon texture. The specific issue, is that i'm trying to add a really cool Byzantine longsword to Islamic faction units in my mod. I don't want the shields, since having brightly colored byzantine shields, mostly with crosses, wouldn't look good or make sense on any of my Islamic faction units. Specifically, the ere_elite_spearmen from Broken Crescent, whose sword i'm trying to add to other units.

Crop the part of the ERE texture file that is the sword you want, then paste it on the attachments file of the unit you want to modify.
Then re-arrange the UV map fot that piece.

[Ayyubid]

Crop the part of the ERE texture file that is the sword you want, then paste it on the attachments file of the unit you want to modify.
Then re-arrange the UV map fot that piece.

Ok. So in Milkshape, I would crop the sword, then how would I paste it onto the attachments file? Using milkshape to open up the attachments file?

Also, what is "re-arraging the UV map?"

Sorry, i'm fairly new to using milkshape, and texturing units in general.

[paleologos]

Please read more carefully what I posted.
First you make the model in milkshape and you give to that model the shape you want.
Then you make the texture files.
I thought it would/should be self-evident that you use some image manipulation software like photoshop or GIMP in order to manipulate 2D image files.
Crop the part of the ERE texture file that is the sword you want, then paste it on the attachments file of the unit you want to modify.
Then re-arrange the UV map fot that piece.

Have you downloaded Alletun's Tome of Knowledge?
At the time I am typing this 20,904 people have downloaded this document.
If you are not one of them then click here in order to be #20,905.
Please read ALL of it.

We all (except Alletun) started there.

All the tutorials and all the tools and all the resources were made for people like you and me.

Use them.

God wants you to use them.
Jesus wants you to use them.
Muhammad wants you to use them.
Budda wants you to use them.
(Am I forgatting anyone?)
The people who made them want you to use them.
I want you to use them.

Bottom line if you respect none of the above just use them because you love and respect your own self and your efforts and time are of great value to you.

I hope you forgive my tone but I really want to help people and I make the assumption that they also want to help themselves.

[Ayyubid]

Please read more carefully what I posted.
First you make the model in milkshape and you give to that model the shape you want.
Then you make the texture files.
I thought it would/should be self-evident that you use some image manipulation software like photoshop or GIMP in order to manipulate 2D image files.
Crop the part of the ERE texture file that is the sword you want, then paste it on the attachments file of the unit you want to modify.
Then re-arrange the UV map fot that piece.

Have you downloaded Alletun's Tome of Knowledge?
At the time I am typing this 20,904 people have downloaded this document.
If you are not one of them then click here in order to be #20,905.
Please read ALL of it.

We all (except Alletun) started there.

All the tutorials and all the tools and all the resources were made for people like you and me.

Use them.

God wants you to use them.
Jesus wants you to use them.
Muhammad wants you to use them.
Budda wants you to use them.
(Am I forgatting anyone?)
The people who made them want you to use them.
I want you to use them.

Bottom line if you respect none of the above just use them because you love and respect your own self and your efforts and time are of great value to you.

I hope you forgive my tone but I really want to help people and I make the assumption that they also want to help themselves.

Lol you seem angry man, all I needed was a bit of clarity, and thank you for it. We are on the same team(titanium)! Unfortunately, in much of the tome I found issues, for example, with this particular issue, the tome did not cover how the attachments store weapon and shield data, or how to edit them. Which is why i'm posting here. Understand noobs are not evil

And thanks for the help, I really want to get this mod done asap. + rep

[paleologos]

Lol you seem angry man, all I needed was a bit of clarity, and thank you for it. We are on the same team(titanium)! Unfortunately, in much of the tome I found issues, for example, with this particular issue, the tome did not cover how the attachments store weapon and shield data, or how to edit them. Which is why i'm posting here. Understand noobs are not evil

And thanks for the help, I really want to get this mod done asap. + rep

As I said, forgive my tone.
It seems to me I am going to have to tutor you for a while about things I was taking for granted everyone understood.

The attachments file does not store information about 3D items.
It is an image file.

All the information about items is stored in the mesh files.
Think of the mesh file as the "Invisible Man".
If he is naked he is invisible, in our case a silver body(?).
But if he is wearing clothes we can see him because his clothes are visible.

The two image files that are used by the program to make the "clothes" are actually designators of "materials".
(When I say "clothes" I am saying that metaphorically, not literally. It could be the skin, or the helmets, or anything.
Many of the original CA high and late era knights, have their heads textured on the attachments file.)

Anyway, try to imagine a 3D structure that is made up of triangles and those triangles are made up of dots called vertices (vertex in singular) and lines called wires that connect the dots.
A wire is so perfectly thin that is invisible, except in milkshape.
As a matter of fact wires themselves are not 3D objects since they only have one dimension: length. And vertices have no dimensions at all, but they do have coordinates.
In the 3D graphics terminology the words triangle and polygon are use interchangeably.

It only takes minimal imagination to figure out that the only way to make a triangle visible in-game is to stick something to it that has more than one dimension.
That "something" is called a texture.
The UV map of a 3D object is a part of the 3D object file and instructs the computer on which part of the 2D image -that is the texture map- should be used to "dress" each triangle.

So a sword in milkshape is a group of triangles.
Click the group tab and in the group list window in milkshape and you will see the names of the groups that comprise the model.
At the right of each name you will see the words <Mat: Figure> or <Mat: Attachments>.
Mat stands for material.
Figure means that the program should take the UV map of that group and place it on the file that is listed first in the modelsdb file.
Attachments means that the program should take the UV map of that group and place it on the file that is listed second in the modelsdb file.

For example:


16 highland_archers
1 4
51 unit_models/_Highlanders/Highland_Archers_lod0.mesh 130
51 unit_models/_Highlanders/Highland_Archers_lod1.mesh 700
51 unit_models/_Highlanders/Highland_Archers_lod2.mesh 1000
51 unit_models/_Highlanders/Highland_Archers_lod3.mesh 7000
2
5 slave
76 unit_models/_Highlanders/textures/Highlander_Kilt-on-Bare_Skin_Brown.texture
75 unit_models/_Highlanders/textures/Highlander_Kilt-on-Bare_Skin_Norm.texture
46 unit_sprites/slave_highland_archers_sprite.spr
4 merc
76 unit_models/_Highlanders/textures/Highlander_Kilt-on-Bare_Skin_Green.texture
75 unit_models/_Highlanders/textures/Highlander_Kilt-on-Bare_Skin_Norm.texture
45 unit_sprites/merc_highland_archers_sprite.spr
2
5 slave
67 unit_models/_Highlanders/textures/Highlander_EQ_Wood_Yellow.texture
64 unit_models/_Highlanders/textures/Highlander_EQ_Wood__NM.texture 0
4 merc
66 unit_models/_Highlanders/textures/Highlander_EQ_Wood_Green.texture
64 unit_models/_Highlanders/textures/Highlander_EQ_Wood__NM.texture 0


if a group in the model that is named Highland_Archers_lod0 has the word <Mat: Figure> at it's right then the program will place the UV map of that group on the file that is named
Highlander_Kilt-on-Bare_Skin_Brown if the troops are rebels, or on the file that is named Highlander_Kilt-on-Bare_Skin_Green if the troops are mercenaries.

Alternatively:
if a group in the model that is named Highland_Archers_lod0 has the word <Mat: Attachments> at it's right then the program will place the UV map of that group on the file that is named
Highlander_EQ_Wood_Yellow if the troops are rebels, or on the file that is named Highlander_EQ_Wood_Green if the troops are mercenaries.


What I am trying to explain is that the Attachments file does not tell the program where the sword is.
If the group that is named "sword" is assigned the material Attachments then the program will read the respective entry on the modelsdb file and load that 2D file in the texture buffer memory of the graphics card, then place the UV map of that group (sword) on that 2D file in order to figure out which parts of that 2D image to use in order to "dress" the triangles that make up the sword.

I do not know of a way for me to become more analytical about your ultra noobish questions which are OK for you to ask.
How else would you learn?
But I do believe that if you had read Alletun's Tome of Knowledge as carefully as the rest of us did I would not have needed to post all of the above.
I am barely above average IQ, not that much smarter than the next college guy.
I did not learn how to model in a day, it took me months.

In any case this is the very best I can do to help you understand and I can only pray that it is enough because more than my best I cannot do.

[Magas of Cyrene]

Having trouble with the textures in Milkshape. I changed Merchant Militia's weapons from sword & shield to halberd. Went smoothly, up until the texturing. Turns out the head texture is missing somehow (or at least isn't visible), see for yourself:



Weirdly enough, the unmodified units do have head and helmet textures in the game.

This is what it looks like when I apply the texture to the model:



Shields somehow end up at the shoulders - I guess it has something to do with wrong texture coordinates?

Help would be appreciated as I'm still very green with modding.

[Gigantus]

I think you have to change the scale to get the whole texture visible (where is the face?) and then allocate the model groups.

[Magas of Cyrene]

The problem is, it appears to be the whole texture when I open it in DXTBmp or GIMP. And yet the units have face textures in the actual game...

This is what it looks like:

[Gigantus]

Check in the modelDB file which is the second file allocated. One is for 'figure' and the other is for 'attachments'. It could be a case of the model groups allocated to the wrong texture, eg all to 'figure'

[Magas of Cyrene]

Aye, you were right, the other textures are in the attachments, though it appears the allocation is still off:



Also, can't find a way to attach both of these textures, it's one or the other:



There are two Figure & Attachments groups, but assigning the second texture to the attachments or second figure does nothing (my goggles don't do anything either. The second attachments is the weapon's texture - and that works fine.

[King of the Ring]

i doubt you should have 2x figure and 2x attachments

did you assign them properly?

[Magas of Cyrene]

i doubt you should have 2x figure and 2x attachments

did you assign them properly?

The unit has 2 textures - one for armour the other for the faces (see above). I didn't change anything in the MESH file, it's ported directly from the MOS submod.

[paleologos]

The unit has 2 textures - one for armour the other for the faces (see above). I didn't change anything in the MESH file, it's ported directly from the MOS submod.

I don't know anything about that submod but I do know that this is irregular and it happens when you use milkshape's native command for the merging of models.
It cannot tell that the "figure" material from the 1st model and the "figure" material from the 2nd model are supposed to be the same material so it adds one and one of both "figures" and "attachments" and ends up with two pairs.
Just delete the extra sets of materials and reassign materials to groups as appropriate.
It would probably slove your problem.
If not we are still here.