The PALANTIR Unit Guide for Third Age v3.2

[brandybarrel]

For those of you interested in comparing unit speed among Third Age factions and races, I have added a one-page guide to The PALANTIR (unit guide) here. This is a subjective review and therefore not added to the objectively based unit cards.

All TATW units have been reviewed, listed, and assigned a value based on a scale from 1 (slowest) to 10 (fastest). Standard human infantry units (speed = 4 and 5) were employed as a basis for comparison.

All units were comparatively and repetitively run on Grassy Plain in Custom Battle to give the most “accurate” observation as possible. The values are not based on stopwatch timing or formulae, just pure comparative run-to-finish-line observation.

This is the first time I have conducted and recorded unit speeds on such a large scale. Whether it is for playing purposes, modding, or just discussion, I hope you all find the guide a fun and useful addition.

[A1_Unit]

Thanks, but why do you need to document unit speeds?

[Kawee]

For tactics I guess. If you can route a Dwarven army, I assure you, you don't need cavalry to run them down. On the other hand, if you're playing dwarf prepare to fight the same army in the next turn.

[Warmaster Tibs]

[quote=Kawee;5376848] If you can route a Dwarven army\quote]

Good luck with that.

[Vifarc]

Thanks, but why do you need to document unit speeds?

You forgot Defense, Attack, and all. Why all these docs in the Palantir?
Thanks brandybarrel!

[Withwnar]

Nice one. +rep. I was thinking about how speeds compared just the other day and didn't fancy wading through the files to find out. Well done!

EDIT:
Holy cow , I just read the fine print on that page. I assumed that speed was a number in the TXT files but you actually made them run races! Man, if I could rep you again right now I would. Marathon effort!

[marceror]

Wow brandybarrel. That must have taken some serious time to put together. +rep

Nice to see this post stickied! Thanks JAL for that!

[Lü Bu]

Indeed

[Swiss Halberdier]

Again a great new addition and thank you very much for your huge effort to create this helpfully unit guide! +rep

[brandybarrel]

Thanks everyone for your comments and feedback.

Please find below a brief summary of the changes for Third Age v1.3 as it applies to The Palantir unit guide:

• Dale faction units and stats completely redone
• Silvan and High Elves unit stats completely revised – fewer men per unit however more powerful and expensive.
• Elven arrow accuracy increased
• Gondor’s Citadel Guards and Fountain Guards attack and defence increased
• Gondor’s Blackroot Archer range reduced, militias’ defence slightly reduced
• Dwarves ranged attack slightly reduced
• Rhun units armor/defence adjusted, some ranged attack slightly decreased
• Mordor some unit armor/defence slightly decreased, costs adjusted
• Isengard some unit defence and costs adjusted
• Harad missile unit attack slightly increased, some armor/defence costs reduced
• OMM lower tier unit defence/cost decreased, archer range decreased
• Beorning mercenary unit added to campaign
• Naval units renamed

The above list is not exhaustive.

Enjoy Third Age!

[Withwnar]

Thanks brandybarrel. That mercenary page is a nice addition. What does the number mean below each one? e.g. Ents: 2300.

[brandybarrel]

Hi Withwnar,

The number below the unit card is the Mercenary Cost of the unit.
The normal Cost (if part of a faction unit roster) is shown inside the unit card.
The unit Upkeep is the same in both cases.

[Withwnar]

Oh right. That's handy, thanks. I'm still a bit confused though. Aren't Ents and Dale Cavalry only ever mercenaries and so shouldn't both numbers be the same?

[brandybarrel]

Hi Withwnar,

No, not really. Units can be part of a faction’s roster, a mercenary, or both.
If a unit is part of a faction roster the faction would pay the regular cost as shown in the unit card.
If a unit is not part a faction roster and is a mercenary unit then factions that could recruit them would pay the mercenary cost in the field.
If a unit is part of a faction roster and a mercenary unit then the faction would have to pay the cost where the unit was recruited, either at the faction’s barracks (regular cost) or in the field (mercenary cost).

Dale Cavalry and Ents example:
Dale Cavalry is part of the Dale faction roster in v1.3. Hence, Dale will pay the regular cost as shown in the unit card.
Dale Cavalry is also a mercenary unit but only available to the Dwarves faction. Hence, the Dwarves pay the mercenary cost shown below the unit card.
Ents are not part of any faction’s roster. They are only available to the Elves as mercenaries and so they have to pay the mercenary cost.

By the way, a regular unit and a mercenary unit of the same name and appearance can be two different units with very different stats. You can have a regular version and a merc version. However, this is not the case for Dale Cavalry or the Ents.

I hope this clears some things up.

[Withwnar]

Ah yes, Dale Cavalry are part of the Dale roster. Thanks for taking the time to explain that. But... (sorry)... as Ents are not in a roster shouldn't they have the same number, or no number in the card? It says 2400 on the card but 2300 below it.

[brandybarrel]

Hi Withwnar,

Regular unit costs or mercenary costs for the same unit do not have to be the same.

The Ents regular cost is 2400 and its merc cost is 2300. Since the Elves can only recruit them as a mercenary unit they have to pay 2300. The 2400 is not being paid by any faction in the game at the moment. I could leave the space empty in the unit card but it is there because it is part of the unit’s profile (stats) and perhaps it would just confuse people more.

On a technical note, a unit’s stats and cost are determined by entries found on one game file. If the same unit is also a mercenary unit, a different set of costs are applied and found on a different “mercenary” file. So we have two sets of costs for the same unit, a regular cost and a mercenary cost. They can be the same or different. The developer or modder decides the cost.

Hmm, I think I will put the mercenary cost of the unit in the unit card on the merc page for the next version of The Palantir.

[Withwnar]

The 2400 is not being paid by any faction in the game at the moment.

Now I get it. You have taken the numbers from the files not what appears in the game (so to speak). So if someone modified the files to make Ents part of a roster then the 2400 would automatically apply. Yes, I see. Thanks for your patience.

[Punisher1024]

I saw on the guide there is a mine unit for isengard how do you get this unit?

[Withwnar]

I think it was added in experimentally but was disabled due to some problems. Try asking in the Ask Questions thread; you might get a more official answer.

[Punisher1024]

I think it was added in experimentally but was disabled due to some problems. Try asking in the Ask Questions thread; you might get a more official answer.

Thanks