Did ancient Sumerians use phalanx formation?

[Sea of goats]

One night, when I was searching for information about ancient Sumer, I stumbled upon a website (forgot the original address, sorry) where I saw this picture:

It quite clearly depicts a relatively tight formation of soldiers armed with spears and large shields. Or at least my first thought was "hey, that's a phalanx" when I saw it. I searched some more information about this and got the impression that opinions are divided on this: some agree that Sumerians used phalanx and some disagree. Phalanx itself should be quite simple "invention" since basically it is only a matter of formation. Correct me if I'm wrong, but spears and shields weren't exactly the high-tech of that era and should have been common weapons, I think. Of course phalanx requires drilled soldiers to be effective, but I'm not even saying every militiaman fought this way. Maybe it was used only by professional/elite soldiers of city-states?

So what's your thoughts? Anyone here with real information about this? I'm quite interested in ancient Sumer but my knowledge is very poor :erm. I'd rather read some books about this but my library doesn't have one :erm.

[Habelo]

Well phalanxe is a real old metod of fighting thats all i know..

[hannibal89]

i'm gonna look this up today.

It is quite possible they did.

[Turnus]

They probably did use a "phalanx" in one sense of the word, but in all likelihood not that which is used in reference to the "phalanx" developed by the Macedonians.

[hannibal89]

Result of my "research" shows:

http://www.inisfail.com/~ancients/sumerians.html

In the midst of peoples physically stronger than they were, and very warlike in attitude, the Sumerians built a thriving Empire.* They did this because they had both a better organized and better trained military.* They also had better weapons.* The Sumerians were the first to introduce bronze weapons, the infantry phalanx, and the chariot to warfare.* They used the chariot and infantry phalanx in close support of each other with remarkable success.

Here check this out they also used donkeys to drive their chariots, but this worked well:

The Chariots used by the Sumerians were of heady construction and were pulled by four onagers (wild asses).* Top speed as modern experiments have shown was about 15mph, but this was only obtainable on open and level terrain, also the chariots had a very wide turning radius at anything above their slowest speed.* The chariots were used for crashing through the enemy infantry line.* Experiments have proven that an ****** (onager) would have been no more contrary than a horse when trained to pull a war cart.

Early Sumerian Phalanx

The Sumerians were the first to develop a phalanx style unit for fighting.

I also found an article on britannica but those b@stards want me to pay to read the rest so they can goto hell.

I suggest you use this website:

http://joseph_berrigan.tripod.com/id46.html

Here is the definition of a phalanx:

"A phalanx (plural phalanges or phalanxes) is a rectangular array of infantry, typically spearmen or pikemen. The formation was typically close order so the weapons could be used to keep enemies at a distance. The first phalanges appear on Sumerian inscriptions, and they dominate the battlefield for millennia, reaching their culmination in the Macedonian phalanx under Alexander the Great and his successors. Phalanges are generally good on forward defense, but have difficulty advancing and are weak on the flanks. They were largely replaced by the much more mobile Roman legion, though phalanges of pikemen were employed against mounted knights with considerable success.
"

So thank you "sea of goats" for pointing this out, as i learned something today.

lol check it out, twcenter.net censored the word "a$$"

[Pompeius Minus]

Wicker shields and donkey chariots does sound a bit comical, but I guess it worked for the Sumerians.

[conon394]

I tend to vote for the no camp.

The phalanx imagery is not particularly prominent; there are just as many depictions of chariots and skirmishers. It seems just as likely that Sumerians were using a system similar to the Persians. A primarily defensive formation of spearmen, armed with large pavaise type shields and spears. They screen and protect the missile infantry and chariots, they attack when they enemy is heavily disrupted or demoralized.

[SigniferOne]

Besides, it is pretty much unknown whether this was a mobile formation at all; nothing we have from the Sumerian literary remains suggests a strong use of the formation, much of a reliance on it, nor any traces of the "hoplite ethic" that is so abundantly evident in Archaic Greek poetry.

[ancient seaman]

My 2 cents here are that althought it is highly possible many nations before Greeks did use some knid of shield spearmen in large tight formations this dont fit the idea about phalanx we have.The reason is that althought Greeks can not pretend to find the obvious(putting spearment in groups)it is certainly true that they did gave the characteristics that make up the idea for phalanx which is a well formed and trained body of armored spearmen capable of manouvering under orders without breaking formation,capable of fighting with both spear and sword while on phalanx and been able to follow oreders as a body and not individual men.
Phalanx isnt only to put men with spears and shields together.It is also to make them fight and move(within formation limits)efficiently,thus a rather complex mechanism of battle which needs lots of training and certain spirit.that is why i beliave that we should not confuse the term "phalanx"with any spearmen group in general.

[qnzkid711]

Exactly what Im thinking ancient. What are the characteristics of this Sumerian "phalanx"? What made the phalanx great was the organization of it. I mean Trarii were spearmen also. They were packed closely together, yet we did not call them a phalanx. A group of pahalanx fighting close together do not make a phalanx. A phalanx is defined by its unique characteristics.

[deddem]

Originally posted by SigniferOne@May 3 2005, 10:31 AM
Besides, it is pretty much unknown whether this was a mobile formation at all;

Well, as we see on the image in the first posting, infantrymen stand upon bodies of fallen enemies. BTW, it seems, that they had special shield-bearers in the first line; their spearmen hold spears with two arms; and if we look on pictures of sumerian army on march, we wont see any shield-bearer, but only spearmen armed with spear and war-axe and protected by bronze helmets and hide cloacks.

[{nF}remix]

speaking of phalanxes..look at the new chinese army phalanx:

[Valentin the II]

Erm... No. I just red a book about it yesterday.
They used a very tight formateon of solders with enormos shealds and short spears, this is nosing like a falaks.
Olso they stoped using it very quikly caws it wasnt very efective.

-Valentin (sory for misspeling)

[hannibal89]

Valentin

Olso they stoped using it very quikly caws it wasnt very efective.

Thats not what the links i posted said :blink
What book were you reading? :huh
Remix

speaking of phalanxes..look at the new chinese army phalanx:

Lol one grenade will knock em all down like dominos. Its just a marching formation.

Qnzkid

Exactly what Im thinking ancient. What are the characteristics of this Sumerian "phalanx"? What made the phalanx great was the organization of it

Which one are you talking about? The greek or macedonian?

I think we should all conduct more "research" into this topic.
I'll reply when i've found something new, or when someone else has :whistle
Hannibal89

[Valentin the II]

I dont remember the nayme of the book, but its true.
I dont sink that this falanx was very efective agaynest the enemy archers ( theyer enemyse had pleanty of archers).
And theyer big boxlike charyots wernt much of a musterpies (eesh Y bilding such a big chariot when U R just gona put a peletast in it *tongue* ).
Anywayse it dosent mater these R just spearman (not pikeman) with very big shealds (some say that these shealds were big enugh for 2 men) and a tight formateon.
And U cant kall evry organized force of spearman a falnx ( hint : triarei).

_Valentin ( man Iv got a big misspeling problem, sory :blush )

[Rapax]

Say valentin, where did you find your english?

I've read in an article that the majority of a sumerian army would be spearmen and they would march 6 deep in a phalanx formation. Most likely only the first row would have the big door sized shields which would be deployed as protection against enemy missile fire.
Anyway, people should keep in mind that sumerians existed long before the greeks and therefor shouldn't think that the greek phalanx is the beginning and end of it all.

[Trax]

I dont remember the nayme of the book, but its true.

You tell us , that you read it yestarday, bu you still cant remember the name of the book?

[Valentin the II]

Its in russian and its in my mothers house.
And I know that the greeks didnt start with the whole sing but a falanx is a very "wierd" term, basicly U could say that triarii faught in falanx formateon. And its just my opinion, I sink that sumerians laked organizateon 2 kreate a "RIAL" falanx.

[Rapax]

Then what is a "RIAL" phalanx?

[hannibal89]

Then what is a "RIAL" phalanx?

Dont bother rapax, some people should be left alone.
The sumerians were the first civilised people, calling their phalanx (and i have given my sources), unreal (he has given one source) is foolish.
Perhaps he holds illwill against the Sumerian civilisation.

I sink that sumerians laked organizateon 2 kreate a "RIAL" falanx.

No the sumerians did not lack organisation. They were the first civilisation. Everyone is arguing against you not for the fun of it, but because we all dislike your refusal to admit things.

Hannibal89

Rapax summed it up properly

Anyway, people should keep in mind that sumerians existed long before the greeks and therefor shouldn't think that the greek phalanx is the beginning and end of it all.