Das Heilige Römische Reich - Suggestions

[Dimitri_Harkov]

I don't like recruitable generals because they screw up the family mechanics and - as HxM pointed out - because I want to make them more valuable.

[Zymran]

Fair enough, you da boss

[Dimitri_Harkov]

You got it

[S.P.Q.R. Praetorian]

I think a Sub mod-Sub forum should be set up like in Stainless Steel. It gets a lot of business and has some real nice sub mods.

[Bleda]

my big issue with M2TW is succession to the throne. As I'm sure your all aware... it sucks. I came across a possible solution to maintaining dynastic lines in the style of primogeniture, without having to kill off as many family members. We could increase the lifespan of generals and family members to about a maximum of 80 years old. Then increase the required age to get the ancillary one-foot in the grave so your General wont earn "one foot in the grave" status until his 70's, so you can actually use him to campaign if need be. Also, decrease the age of manhood to 12. It should be effective in promoting father-to-son succession without damaging game play.


D:\Program Files\SEGA\Medieval II Total War\DLV_ext\data

Then look for this file - descr_campaign_db

Open it in notepad or something similar and look at this area -

<family_tree>
<max_age uint="120"/>
<max_age_for_marriage_for_male uint="60"/>
<max_age_for_marriage_for_female uint="40"/>
<max_age_before_death uint="121"/>
<max_age_of_child uint="10"/>
<old_age uint="80"/>
<age_of_manhood uint="12"/>
<daughters_age_of_consent uint="14"/>
<daughters_retirement_age uint="45"/>
<age_difference_min int="-10"/>
<age_difference_max int="30"/>
<parent_to_child_min_age_diff uint="12"/>
<min_adoption_age uint="29"/>
<max_adoption_age uint="30"/>
<max_age_for_conception uint="60"/>
<age_of_manhood_close uint="12"/>
<max_number_of_children uint="4"/>

also, I hear that increasing the number of possible children will give you CTD

let me know if this could work for your mod

[Dimitri_Harkov]

I don't really get how that changes should ensure 'correct' succession, but feel free to try it out. Tell me if it worked afterwards.

btw I'm not sure if Repman would like it if we copied his campaign_db.

Cheers!

[Bleda]

Who is Repman? anyways its a thing I've done on my personal modification of Clouds Across Europe, not yet with your mod however. It really has helped, grandsons tend to mature while their grandfathers are still alive, so that when the old king dies, his son of course inherits, then the grandson becomes faction heir. Otherwise, the player would have to wait for the new king's young son to mature 5 years later, then having to kill off whichever family member was unlucky enough to be randomly picked as the faction's heir while the king's son was underage.(seems random anyways) I hope that makes sense. Of course it doesn't always mean you wont have to kill someone off, but it does bring me a little more happiness in my game play

[Dimitri_Harkov]

Hm... I'll keep that in mind. But it will have to wait until we have decided if we use 0.5 or 1 year(s) per turn.

btw: Repman is the creator of DLV - the directory you posted above is from his mod.

Cheers,
D.

[Bleda]

good luck in your endeavors!

Zum Wohl!

[kaikayne]

great modd

im doin really well as saxony, i think there might be a bit too many factions
the turns are like 5 minutes long each,

[The Last Hope]

I dream every night that someone might change the hard coding and allow us to have 35+ factions, so I get confused when people say there are too many factions

[Hartmann]

Dear 'Das Heilige Römische Reich' - Team,

I just downloaded your mod and found it amazing! really great job so far - I love it!! You've created my favourite M2TW mod!

I just wanted to suggest some small improvements, if you don't mind:

1. Only played Swabia so far, and I wondered why their heir and faction leader don't have 'von Hohenstaufen' as family name? When I married them to princesses of neighbouring realms, 'von Büren' was displayed on my screen as the family name of the faction leader & heir... is this random based or am I wrong with the historic name 'von Hohenstaufen' of the Dukes of Swabia? In case I'm right, it was great if you gave them the historic family name...

2. Next thing I would like to suggest, is to change the names of some Rebel factions into the historic correct ones: f.e. Konigsberg & Thorn should be inherited by pagan Prussian rebels (one of the major baltic pagan tribes, which was christianized & germanized by the Teutonic Order in the High Middle Age as you guys most likely know already) not Polish as in the current build, while Danzig should be pagan Pomeranian Rebels not Polish, too. Vilnius should be Lithuanian rebels not Livonian and Inverness should be Scottish or Highland and not English rebels. And for those Italian rebel towns & castles I would suggest to name them after the region f.e. Florenz posessed by Toscanian rebel troops, Brindisii by Apulian rebels and so on, because the Italians were really far away from beeing united or feeling 'Italian' in the Middle Age. There may be also others, but I only played a few turns so far ...

3. Perhaps the small unit card and the overall looks of the German knights could be redesigned, since they don't look as good as those of other units: f.e. Swabian Swordsmen look really great, but those German knights don't have the same quality... (don't be angry on me now, I only have best intentions and I didn't mean it in a offensive way)

4. Would be also great if the Teutonic Order was included somehow, especially in the later stages of the game (High Middle Age) by beeing able to recruit Teutonic knights, seargants, and prussian auxiliary forces. Teutonics not as an independent faction, but as additional units for each HRE faction in the later stages of the game, f.e by giving the player the oportunity to build an Teutonic Order building in lands which border pagan lands or when pagan lands are conquered.

Hope you don't mind these suggestions - keep up the good work! I'm a big fan of yours already!
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Sorry I'm a Noob in here and I think I have posted this in the wrong section the first time, so I double post it over here

[Dimitri_Harkov]

Hello Hartmann!

Welcome to TWC and thank you for your kind words.

Here we go:

1) M2's game engine is somewhat limited in setting up correct family trees. Friedrichs's father was called Friedrich von Büren, but the engine overrides his surename of 'von Staufen' with his father's 'von Büren'.

I have removed Friedrich's father's surname of 'von Büren' now, this should solve the problem (note that Friedrich will none the less not be called 'von Staufen', but his kids should be - don't ask me why!). Many thanks for pointing out that annoying bug.

2) I'll look at that as soon has I ave finished revising the map.

3) Well, I was in a hurry when I did it... It has no top priority, but we'll update the unit cards sooner or later.

4) Good ideas. We are currently discussing the knightly orders in this thread, maybe you want to participate in that discussion?

Thank you very much for your feedback & suggestions!

Have fun with dHRR,
Cheers,
D.

[TWoxy]

3. Perhaps the small unit card and the overall looks of the German knights could be redesigned, since they don't look as good as those of other units: f.e. Swabian Swordsmen look really great, but those German knights don't have the same quality... (don't be angry on me now, I only have best intentions and I didn't mean it in a offensive way)

You mean they are not colourful enough? They were specifically designed that way, to portray the look of a 11/12th century Knight realistically, rather than CA's fantasy "bon bon" colours which I have made much effort to depart from. Also, the Swabian Swordsmen will certainly not have those colours in future versions, they are one of the first units I aim to reskin after I am finished with the universal German peasant textures.

[Hartmann]

You mean they are not colourful enough? They were specifically designed that way, to portray the look of a 11/12th century Knight realistically, rather than CA's fantasy &quot;bon bon&quot; colours which I have made much effort to depart from. Also, the Swabian Swordsmen will certainly not have those colours in future versions, they are one of the first units I aim to reskin after I am finished with the universal German peasant textures.

Ok, so you redesign most vanilla units in the future? I only found that the overall impression was quite disturbing in the current build (0.6), when I see the dark German knights next to vanilla 'bon bon coloured' small unit cards. I don't mean it in an offensive way at all.

• One more small suggestion if I may:
  Some of those German knights wear the Chain Mail Coif (Kettenhaube) which is good and historic, but the others wear quite strange helmets, which most likely were unknown at that time. (I think I've seen them on the English knights in the movie 'Braveheart' and I think you guys have designed them after this movie, but they aren't historic as far as I know) Perhaps it would be a good idea to redesign those Helmets (not the Mail Coif) of the German knights, since the most common helm type, especially in Germany and throughout Western Europe from the 10th century untill the 12th century was the Helm type, which most of the time is adressed as Norman style helmet (allthough the term 'Norman Helm' is wrong, because all of Western Europe used that helm type, which is a simple conic helmet [Spangenhelm] with nose protection.
• The version of the Spangenhelm with eye protection could be used for the Danish and Russian early units, since it was in use in Northern Europe from the 6th to 11th century and in Eastern Europe even up to the 13th century.
• The Great Helm (Topfhelm) wasn't invented before the early 13th century and was used by knights - this type of helmet was used widely by all European knights and it displaced the Spangenhelm wih nose protection completely, which still was in use in the beginning of the 13th century some times.
• The Kettle Hat (Eisenhut sometimes in Germany also adressesd as 'Tellerhelm') was usually used by common foot soldiers and came up around the 11th century and spread from the Byzantine Empire across Europe.

so long - hope you don't mind this little study of helmets.. maybe you can make use of it.

[Dimitri_Harkov]

@Diskuswerfer: He meant the unit cards... And I have to admit that my german knight one is crap compared to the others (regardless of the colors - my card has almost no contrast.)

[TWoxy]

Ok, so you redesign most vanilla units in the future? I only found that the overall impression was quite disturbing in the current build (0.6), when I see the dark German knights next to vanilla 'bon bon coloured' small unit cards. I don't mean it in an offensive way at all.

• One more small suggestion if I may:
  Some of those German knights wear the Chain Mail Coif (Kettenhaube) which is good and historic, but the others wear quite strange helmets, which most likely were unknown at that time. (I think I've seen them on the English knights in the movie 'Braveheart' and I think you guys have designed them after this movie, but they aren't historic as far as I know) Perhaps it would be a good idea to redesign those Helmets (not the Mail Coif) of the German knights, since the most common helm type, especially in Germany and throughout Western Europe from the 10th century untill the 12th century was the Helm type, which most of the time is adressed as Norman style helmet (allthough the term 'Norman Helm' is wrong, because all of Western Europe used that helm type, which is a simple conic helmet [Spangenhelm] with nose protection.
• The version of the Spangenhelm with eye protection could be used for the Danish and Russian early units, since it was in use in Northern Europe from the 6th to 11th century and in Eastern Europe even up to the 13th century.
• The Great Helm (Topfhelm) wasn't invented before the early 13th century and was used by knights - this type of helmet was used widely by all European knights and it displaced the Spangenhelm wih nose protection completely, which still was in use in the beginning of the 13th century some times.
• The Kettle Hat (Eisenhut) was usually used by common foot soldiers and came up around the 11th century and spread from the Byzantine Empire across Europe.

so long - hope you don't mind this little study of helmets.. maybe you can make use of it.

The use of many of the helmets featured on the unit could not be avoided due to limitations with the meshes; besides, I am first and foremost a modeller and skinner, not a historian. I was provided with an Osprey image and I worked from it.

Furthermore, notice the "11th/12th century" in my post; perhaps "13th" should have been there also, but I created the models with the express aim of making a Knights unit that could be available throughout the period with reasonable historical accuracy, in order that it never appeared too outdated
and antiquated. I appreciate your helmet study, but I simply do not have the time to ensure that such historical accuracy is present in each and every unit, as let me reiterate that it is mainly not my role.

[HannibalExMachina]

IST.

eg the surcoat on the german knights isnt historical for 1080, but it is for 1150. as we have only on knight unit for 1080-1200, its a fair compromise.

i agree that the norman helmet would be more historical, but thats no pressing matter.

[Zymran]

We like historical-ness (my vocab has deserted me ) but its not our absolute number 1 priority (at least not to the helmet-specific degree of precision ). Thanks for the research anyway, Hartmann

[pchalk]

I don't like recruitable generals because they screw up the family mechanics and - as HxM pointed out - because I want to make them more valuable.

About recruitable generals. Id like to re-suggest this from whoever suggested this before. I remember the experience of recruitable generals in RTW Barbarian Invasion and they were cool at first but I must agree they do lose their value. The other problem you addressed (screwed up families) is significant but in my opinion the same as adoption. Normally Id agree completely with this but for example my most recent campaigns at one pt had 10 territories and only 4 generals (only 1 had a son). This makes it hectic to manage overall. Id say a compromise should be made to address the problems. I suggest that generals, not family members but generals, be recruitable but only in the territory where the faction leader resides or just happens to be in. There should be a limit of course on the number of generals and if the faction leader is not in a territory u own, a general cannot be recruited. These limits will help keep the value and a non-family general will hopefully create no problems with the family structure.

just my thoughts