Re: [Submod] Fall of the Eagles + Europa Perdita revised

['Gunny]

Oh good lol, I haven't been too active for a while. You're not wrong either, we definitely half assed in some places and I can't tell you why some decisions were made, especially now 4 years later. I can definitely tell you that the Ids were changed by Ahiga, as he did most of the legwork on the changes to the rosters. Can't really say why he would have changed the IDs, if he ever gets back on steam I will let you know.

[Cgma]

Oh good lol, I haven't been too active for a while. You're not wrong either, we definitely half assed in some places and I can't tell you why some decisions were made, especially now 4 years later. I can definitely tell you that the Ids were changed by Ahiga, as he did most of the legwork on the changes to the rosters. Can't really say why he would have changed the IDs, if he ever gets back on steam I will let you know.

Ahiga is on PM with me, so i can ask him as well . I can't blame you for little mess inside data, that's obvious while few ppl work on the same files, but we all should for abandoning matter in halfway .

[Odinarius]

Currently i would be appreciated if you play as any not roman faction to confirm whether that crash bug on WRE/ERE exists as i honestly cannot duplicate it. It needs playing basic mod structure without any other mods that were not listed in collection.

Sure, just started a new campaign as Norse.

Remember how I wrote that my previous campaign crashes on ERE turn? I was fooling around with some other mods then reloaded this combination. And the crash is gone. Previously I was able to reproduce it 6-7 times in a row. Don't know what happened.

[Cgma]

Sure, just started a new campaign as Norse.

Remember how I wrote that my previous campaign crashes on ERE turn? I was fooling around with some other mods then reloaded this combination. And the crash is gone. Previously I was able to reproduce it 6-7 times in a row. Don't know what happened.

According to latest tests done on Steam site with ppl who reported crashes it seems that they had issue with graphic options in game that caused CTD, not a mod, but still would be appreciated for playing around.

Sadly and unfortunately i must confirm that game crashes because of addon of so many units to WRE and ERE. Currently it crashes both in custom battles and in campaign if AI is handling ERE or WRE or both.
I'm looking into any solution to this problem and campaign is probably possible to fix with separate submods for ERE and WRE which can be choosen regarding which faction you gonna play - playing as ERE/WRE or both in multi doesn't cause problems. There gonna be moved into submods most auxilia palatina units as they are lesser lost than any other units, but it seems custom battle crash fix doesn't help for custom battles so i must remove as many units as it is needed to keep that playable - most probably i remove them all (since custom battle limit is 70 units per faction and mentioned fix doesn't really help.

EDIT: Custom battle crash was actually fixed by removing bunch of new units from ERE and WRE roster to keep it playable by AI. I will try to investigate later why custom battle crash fix doesn't work for EP+FotE Revised.

EDIT2: Campaign issue is also fixed with making additional submods for extra units:https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfil...?id=1646268443
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1646269860
Using both submods for ERE and WRE needs testing but currently all saves i have which normally CTDed now work with both submods.

[Odinarius]

My Saxon campaign is developing pretty good. However, I am concerned that there is no message after I killed Atilla the first time. I don't remember exactly, should there be a message about wounding and coming back? I made double sure that he is killed by my troops, yet nothing happened.
Screenshot: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfil...?id=1652732504

Also, concerning bows and riders, here is a part I took from Peter Heather: The Fall of the Roman Empire. Short story - they had an amazing advantage in range and acuracy over European armies. Here it goes:
"The key to Hunnic success seems to lie in one particular detail whose significance has not been fully recognized. Both the Huns and the Scythians used the composite bow, then, but whereas Scythian bows measured about 80 centimetres in length, the few Hunnic bows found in graves are much larger, measuring between 130 and 160 centimetres. The point here, of course, is that size generates power. However, the maximum size of bow that a cavalryman can comfortably use is only about 100 centimetres. The bow was held out, upright, directly in front of the rider, so that a longer bow would bang into the horse’s neck or get caught up in the reins. But – and here is the answer to our question – Hunnic bows were asymmetric. The half below the handle was shorter than the half above, and it is this that allowed the longer bow to be used from horseback. It involved a trade-off, of course. The longer bow was clumsier and its asymmetry called for adjustments in aim on the part of the archer. But the Huns’ asymmetric 130-centimetre bow generated considerably more hitting power than the Scythians’ symmetrical 80-centimetre counterpart: unlike the Scythians’, it could penetrate Sarmatian armour while keeping the archer at a safe distance and not impeding his horsemanship.
.....
In 1753 the best shot before the modern era, Hassan Aga, launched an arrow a grand total of 584 yards and 1 foot (roughly 534 metres). He was a renowned champion, but distances of well over 400 metres were commonplace. This bow’s power, too, is awesome. From just over 100 metres’ distance, a Turkish bow will drive an arrow over 5 centimetres through a piece of wood 1.25 centimetres thick. Because of its asymmetry and the fact that infantry archers can plant their feet firmly, unlike their mounted counterparts, we need to knock something off these performance figures when thinking about what they tell us about the fourth century. The Huns didn’t have stirrups, but used heavy wooden saddles which allowed the rider to grip with the leg muscles and thus create a firm firing platform. Nonetheless, Hunnic horse archers would probably have been effective against unarmoured opponents such as the Goths from distances of 150 to 200 metres, and against protected Alans from 75 to 100 metres. These distances were more than enough to give the Huns a huge tactical advantage, which, as Roman sources report, they exploited to the full."

[Cgma]

Also, concerning bows and riders, here is a part I took from Peter Heather: The Fall of the Roman Empire. Short story - they had an amazing advantage in range and acuracy over European armies. Here it goes:
"The key to Hunnic success seems to lie in one particular detail whose significance has not been fully recognized. Both the Huns and the Scythians used the composite bow, then, but whereas Scythian bows measured about 80 centimetres in length, the few Hunnic bows found in graves are much larger, measuring between 130 and 160 centimetres. The point here, of course, is that size generates power. However, the maximum size of bow that a cavalryman can comfortably use is only about 100 centimetres. The bow was held out, upright, directly in front of the rider, so that a longer bow would bang into the horse’s neck or get caught up in the reins. But – and here is the answer to our question – Hunnic bows were asymmetric. The half below the handle was shorter than the half above, and it is this that allowed the longer bow to be used from horseback. It involved a trade-off, of course. The longer bow was clumsier and its asymmetry called for adjustments in aim on the part of the archer. But the Huns’ asymmetric 130-centimetre bow generated considerably more hitting power than the Scythians’ symmetrical 80-centimetre counterpart: unlike the Scythians’, it could penetrate Sarmatian armour while keeping the archer at a safe distance and not impeding his horsemanship.

That is something to be considered in the nearest future, however i have read quite opposite arguments basing on descriptions of known battles vs. Huns which took mostly other conclusions: in fact Huns were pretty weak but they used mass horse archer harrassment of flanks with their horsemen, a tactic unknown to european people (while when they attacked Sassanids they got big kick in the balls very fast). it also includes mass burning of settlements which terrorized tribals in the east, but when finally history came to real challenge like Battle of Chalons and Nedao, when Huns were abandoned by most valuable allies/subjects it appeared they can't stand any organized forces.

[Odinarius]

Maybe that can be simulated by giving them awesome range, damage and speed, while giving them a bit less armor? Like, make them glass cannons which are great when fighting behind an infantry line (allied Goths), but not being able to stand up in the proper melee? Right now, they are just tanks. I can paste more description about Hunnic warfare from the book I quoted above.

I noticed that the Nokkors have bows, but only 3 ammunition, it's quite weird.

I killed Atilla the second time (I also have a screenshot), but still no message about him being wounded.

Oh, and I got a CTD again on ERE turn. I installed the mods for ERE and WRE units into the ongoing campaign. I'll give it a try without those mods enabled.

[Cgma]

Oh, and I got a CTD again on ERE turn. I installed the mods for ERE and WRE units into the ongoing campaign. I'll give it a try without those mods enabled.

It seems it is not mod specific, but my patch and latest update on ERE rebels. On my test save which CTDed before splitting auxilias into submods i got also CTD after last umpdate of patch but simple reloading save without doing anything else made turn possible to be passed without CTD. So it is either random engine or game must clean cache what is expressed with CTD. As i said try just to reload save if crashed before you deactivate any mod or submod as it seems not needed.

I noticed that the Nokkors have bows, but only 3 ammunition, it's quite weird.

At first - you shouldn't meet Nokkors in the campaign as they are not allowed for any faction, so check all outsource mods you use as probably one of them is enabling them. For the second they are bugged from vanilla - their bow and 3 arrows is simply vannila so it is sure that some of your mods breaks the game. Again deactivate all mods that conflict with FotE or my mod, cause of the crash might also be the same = unchecked mods.

[Odinarius]

The game worked when I took extra units mod out.

I'm quite careful about which mods I use. This is my list in exact order:

A request for Atilla updates
Loyalty penalty from offices fixed
Fote standard icons pack
Fote fix for maga
Ep fote mod
Fote garrisonfix
Fote 53fix
Ai will colonize
Fall of the Eagles 1-4
Europa Perdita
Fixedlightning
Maga
Voices of rome

So the only ones that are not in your collection are A request for Atilla updates, Loyalty penalty from offices fixed, Fixedlightning and Voices of rome. None of those should be affecting units.

[Cgma]

The game worked when i took extra units out

Can you try to reload that crashing save instead of deactivation? It is important to me for bug hunting process.

A request for Atilla updates

It is not a mod, deactivate it and add to "favorites" rather.

Loyalty penalty from offices fixed

Nothing wrong i believe, but there is nothing wrong with loyalty in FotE, so i assume you need a bit of cheating .

Fote standard icons pack

It is meant ONLY for pure FotE, deactivate it with my mod.

Still there is something not right with your installation as you shouldn't see Nokkors by any means. Not sure what then.

[Odinarius]

Unfortunately no, I don't have that save anymore, it was a quicksave, I suppose.

About loyalty, I can't figure out "office given to subordinate" penalty, which is why I use the mod.

I re-enabled the units mod and I'll see if it crashes again.

Nokkors have 68 attack, I just noticed. They are there on the campaign map with this combination of mods still, in 5 different armies. You can see them in the screenshot above. Oddly, they are not present in Custom battle (but Shamans of the Eternal Sky are).

[Cgma]

Unfortunately no, I don't have that save anymore, it was a quicksave, I suppose.

Actually i have found cause of CTDs, it was patch, there is something wrong with corrected rebels file so i removed it for good. I will try to fix rebels via my mod instead. So actually there should be no problems about using submods for ERE and WRE (as they conflicted somehow with patch files which were removed now).

About loyalty, I can't figure out "office given to subordinate" penalty, which is why I use the mod.

it is surely working , it is just another indication (including lack of Attila warnings) that there is something wrong with installation. Check "data" folder if all mods are placed there.

Nokkors have 68 attack, I just noticed.

You just get vanilla unit as it is, no idea how or why, they are just disabled.

Nokkors have 68 attack, I just noticed. They are there on the campaign map with this combination of mods still, in 5 different armies. You can see them in the screenshot above. Oddly, they are not present in Custom battle (but Shamans of the Eternal Sky are).

Ah, i know how you get them, i missed them in the script from vanilla game .

[Odinarius]

I have another end turn CTD - on WRE turn, the camera switches to their port city (Palma) which is under siege, a naval unit approaches (seemingly out of nowhere) and the game crashes. Reproduced it six times.

What do you want me to do?

[Cgma]

What do you want me to do?

It is ok, no needs, i think i know what's up with CTDs now.

[Odinarius]

My game still crashes in the same place, regardless of the unit mods being on or off. Since I killed Atilla three times with no message at all, I think I'll close that campaign.

Did you perhaps have time to look into Atilla script? Three times I killed him in battle, there was no message about enemy general being dead. And no message afterwards about wounding him.

[Cgma]

Did you perhaps have time to look into Atilla script? Three times I killed him in battle, there was no message about enemy general being dead. And no message afterwards about wounding him.

Start new game, all works now. It is hard to know and accept some changes need replay, so does rebels. I'm doing my best to keep mod playable but ATW engine is unpredictable so just happens.

Anyway i'm aware that there is some problem about defeating Attila popups, but as far as i know he dies as predicted after 2x defeat after 425 AD as it is meant.

[Odinarius]

Hey, we greatly appreciate your efforts And my comments are just a poor attempt to aid you in further development.

Concerning diseases, I've had a good experience in that last campaign. There is some, but it is not as overwhelming as it just to be.

Things that I wish could be improved:
- AI does build armies composed from weak units
- AI always fails to build food buildings so ends up starved and there are lots of rebellions
- there are a few unit balancing issues in a couple of factions, as is normal in such a huge game
- there is too much money for the player
- Garamantes characters and building chains are not optimized for the mod (units seems fine). This is probably an EP thing.

Please do continue modding this game, you're doing great so far

[Cgma]

- there are a few unit balancing issues in a couple of factions, as is normal in such a huge game
- there is too much money for the player
- Garamantes characters and building chains are not optimized for the mod (units seems fine). This is probably an EP thing.

You need to be more specific regarding mentioned thoughts. Remember that FotE is not finished with some factions and my efforts to make these gaps filled are also limited.
There is also needed to specify level of challenge, i suppose you'd rather miss money on very hard which is reference level.

[Grigor]

Your mod isn't available on steam anymore, i can't select it in the launcher and my game won't start anymore. How can i fix this?

[Cgma]

Your mod isn't available on steam anymore, i can't select it in the launcher and my game won't start anymore. How can i fix this?

Mod(s) will be back as soon as new update for FotE will be released. I had to hide my mods due to that old version will not be compatible with new one. It goes about new units and mechanics changes moved to main FotE module

which would be not visible

if you use my old mod with new FotE.