Medieval Kingdoms Total War: Kingdom of Georgia

[JERUSALEM]

Diplomacy


Good relations: Cumans, Trebizond, Shirvan, Nicaea, Latin Empire, K. of Bulgaria
Bad Relations: Abbasids, Zengids, Sultante of Rum, Mongols
At war -
Alliance -
Vassals - Alans, Shirvan, Adarbadagan
Trade - Cumans, Trebizond, Alans, Shirvan, Nicaea, Latin Empire, K. of Bulgaria, Sultante of Rum
Other info - Non aggression pact with: Cumans and Trebizond, Millitary access to Cumans.
Georgian military expedition to Persia in 1210-1211 is just over. All the Armies came back after looting Tabriz, Marandia and other cities and regions in Persia. According to chroniclers warriors were not taking silver, only gold. After returning to Tbilisi Tamar of Georgia ordered to distribute overflowed gold to the population.


Nobles


King - Dead
Queen - Queen Tamar the Great (1160-1213) Bagrationi Dynasty (7th century - present)
Prince - George IV Lasha (1191-1232, son of Queen Tamar)
Princess - (Rusudan 1194-1245, daughter of Queen Tamar)


Other Nobles:
House of Dadiani (1046-1827) - Most powerful noble house in western Georgia. Rulers of different western regions - Count of Kutaisi https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Dadiani
Shergil Dadiani (reign: 1210-1244) ---> 8/10 Loyal


House of Shervashidze (1124 - 1827) - Noble house in Western Georgia. Rulers of Principality of Abkhazia - Count of Sokhumi
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Shervashidze
Otar Shervashidze (reign: 1201 - 1219) ---> 8/10 Loyal


House of Zakarids (1184-1390) - Noble Kurdish-Georgian House in southern Georgia - Rulers of Principality of Armenia - Count of Dvin
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zakarids-Mkhargrzeli
General Ivane Mkhargrdzeli (reign:1212-1227) ---> 9/10 Loyal

House of Toreli-Akhaltsikheli (10th century - 14th century) Noble house from Southern Georgia - Military commanders
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Toreli
General Shalva of Akhaltsikhe (1197-1227) 9/10 Loyal

Georgia is not "Kingdom" in 1212, but Empire from Davit (David) IV Aghmashenebeli.

Tamar died in 1210, 27th of January (According to the latest research). I hope, I remember it well, it was a Wednesday.
1213 is a date introduced by Ivane Javakhishvili, but this opinion is not accepted anymore by those researches who study this problem.
Ivane Javakhishvili was a brilliant researcher, but much has been changed in the study of the Georgian history after he passed away.

Ruler (mephe, or use term "Emperor" for international connotation) of Georgia was Giorgi IV Lasha in 1212.

Shervashidze is not correct, the old and authentic form is Sharvashidze

Zakarids is wrong - must be Mkhargrdzeli

there was not Toreli-Akhaltsikheli noble house, but only Toreli without Akhaltsikheli. Akhaltsikhe was place of origin, but that is OK to use Torel-Akhaltsikheli branch of Toreli feudal family if you have
other branches of this family included in the game, but if you do not have then it is better simply to leave Toreli without Akhaltsikheli.

I do not remember whether Shergil was the head of Dadiani feudal family during Giorgi IV Lasha. But if you are in Georgia you can check the dissertation by Gvantsa Abdaladze in TSU library (maglivi library) building and to get the latest information about the history of this period. Sorry, I can not give you more detailed information about history of this period, rest you can simply find in the dissertation by Gvantsa Abdaladze.

I hope it was helpful for you. Wish you good luck, once again!



Levan

It is not about Trebizond Empire, both rulers of Trebizond, before them Byzantine Emperors as well as Georgian used to call themselves Autokrats - official Imperial title of Byzantine Emperors. Georgians officially adopted this title (autokrator - tvitmpkrobeli) by 1104. In the Greek sources Georgian mephe is called Basileus and in the Latin sources as Imperator. All those title - Autokrator (tvitmpkrobeli in Georgian), Basileus, Imperator are translated in English as EMPEROR.

About monaspa you are simply not correct. Feudal Armies rarely used regular armies, but Davit IV was forced to create it just as he had constant fights against Seljuks and other Turks. Monaspa was Cuman elite force. Giorgi III used them against rebellious of Prince Demna in 1177-1178. The leader of this force was Kubasar, named as former-Cuman according to Georgian sources. In Armenians sources those force was numbered as 5000 (500 according to different manuscript, but correct one is probably 5000). This is another testimony about use of monaspa in Georgia. Later they disappear from the historical sources. Actually many Georgian authors like to exaggerate about monaspa, just because they do not have sources. So, no need to invent something. According to Davit's historian they are Cumans, later these Cumans were Georgianized but this is another story.

"Khelmtsiphe" is sometimes used as a synonym to "mephe", but still it is different from "mephe". For example, Jakeli in the 16th century did not call themselves "mephe" because the title "mephe" was reserved for Bagrationi rulers only, hence Jakeli called themselves "Khelmtsiphe", which means sovereign ruler. So, rulers from Jakeli dynasty did not use title "mephe", but as they are independent they used to call themselves "Khelmtsiphe", which is lesser than "mephe", but still means sovereign/independent ruler.

And one more thing - Georgian did not used term "Emperor" (which is English term not used by the Byzantines, Byzantines used "Basileus", as well as Trebizonians and even Georgian for their rulers after Davit IV in their Greek inscriptions). they never had in this period hierarchy - Emperor, King, Prince etc. Yes, they had title "mephet mephe", which is Persian translation of the title
"ShahanShah", so this title is not from Roman/Latin/Byzantine world, but from another system. Sorry, this is not easy to understand. And I can not provide more information just as I do not have a lot of time,
but believe me I have read enough to know this particular issue.

[Levan]

I can clearly understand what you are talking about, and i totally agree with you about ruler titles, you have definitely read lots of articles about that. But i can't agree about Monaspa, i have a feeling that some foreign researcher just confused information about Cumans and Monaspa in Feudal Georgia. King David IV created Monaspa before Cuman immigration, and from historical sources David didn't rely on Cumans so he didn't even use them in Didgori battle. Monaspa was numbered at 5000 in later period, you should already know David didn't have appropriate resources for so big elite force. Cuman force was numbered as 15000 but of course theoretically, that number comes from the fact that about 15000 families were settled down in Georgia. In reality, again, the king didn't rely on them and not all were loyal.

There is no David's historian who says that Monaspa were Cumans. This mistake may be caused by the wrong interpretation of already incorrect translation. I don't try to humiliate people you have mentioned, but everyone can make a mistake.

Regular armies were used in Georgia since the reign of David IV(end of 11th) till 13th century(invasion of Mongols). They mostly served in castles at the border and strategically important places, not in feudal residences. Feudals(Eristavs) were obliged to provide their own forces.

[Caucasian Iberia]

I can clearly understand what you are talking about, and i totally agree with you about ruler titles, you have definitely read lots of articles about that. But i can't agree about Monaspa, i have a feeling that some foreign researcher just confused information about Cumans and Monaspa in Feudal Georgia. King David IV created Monaspa before Cuman immigration, and from historical sources David didn't rely on Cumans so he didn't even use them in Didgori battle. Monaspa was numbered at 5000 in later period, you should already know David didn't have appropriate resources for so big elite force. Cuman force was numbered as 15000 but of course theoretically, that number comes from the fact that about 15000 families were settled down in Georgia. In reality, again, the king didn't rely on them and not all were loyal.

There is no David's historian who says that Monaspa were Cumans. This mistake may be caused by the wrong interpretation of already incorrect translation. I don't try to humiliate people you have mentioned, but everyone can make a mistake.

Regular armies were used in Georgia since the reign of David IV(end of 11th) till 13th century(invasion of Mongols). They mostly served in castles at the border and strategically important places, not in feudal residences. Feudals(Eristavs) were obliged to provide their own forces.

40,000 cuman families and 40,000 cuman warriors BUT david Used 15,000 in battle of Didgori. other 25,000 were left behind....

Nobody argues about Monaspa, except that guy... this is not serious.

[JERUSALEM]

I can clearly understand what you are talking about, and i totally agree with you about ruler titles, you have definitely read lots of articles about that. But i can't agree about Monaspa, i have a feeling that some foreign researcher just confused information about Cumans and Monaspa in Feudal Georgia. King David IV created Monaspa before Cuman immigration, and from historical sources David didn't rely on Cumans so he didn't even use them in Didgori battle. Monaspa was numbered at 5000 in later period, you should already know David didn't have appropriate resources for so big elite force. Cuman force was numbered as 15000 but of course theoretically, that number comes from the fact that about 15000 families were settled down in Georgia. In reality, again, the king didn't rely on them and not all were loyal.

There is no David's historian who says that Monaspa were Cumans. This mistake may be caused by the wrong interpretation of already incorrect translation. I don't try to humiliate people you have mentioned, but everyone can make a mistake.

Regular armies were used in Georgia since the reign of David IV(end of 11th) till 13th century(invasion of Mongols). They mostly served in castles at the border and strategically important places, not in feudal residences. Feudals(Eristavs) were obliged to provide their own forces.

This is Georgian source (see below, attached file No 1), the English translation of this source I have provided above. This is latest edition of "Kartlis Tskhovreba" (published in 2008). From this information you can clearly see that Davit's historian speaks about Kipchaks (Cumans). Of course you can interpret the source as you wish or prefer to do. But the only thing that is clear from this source is the thing that this 5000 warriors were the part of those 40 000 Kipchaks (Cumans) resettled in Georgia.

About regular troops - generally in the feudal society rulers mostly used feudal armies not the regular armies, this is very obvious (see whichever scientific book you want). Yes, Davit IV created regular monaspa unit, but even this force was quite week in comparison to the feudal Georgian army. The Georgians mostly used their feudal army just because those are the main striking force rather than any other units of the Georgian army. The Georgian feudal forces were responsible for creation of so-called couched lances not only in Caucasia, but they also were one among the first in the world who started to use couched lances in the battle, alongside with Byzantines (the first it was thought that Byzantine use couched lances in the battles, but according to latest research the Georgian appear to be one of the first alongside Byzantines). And all this was due to their wealth. The nobles - Especially Didebuli (tadzreuli and aznauri as well, as they are also the members of the Georgian feudal society), were quite rich to afford the most innovative weapons such as couched lance. Just you can see article here

https://www.cambridge.org/core/books...B95827D6A16F5C

Just to imagine that was the couched lance - this was the most fearsome striking weapon from 11th century up to the end of 13th century in the world.

But you still give preference to monaspa, which was Cuman regular troops and not local Georgian feudal army. Guys, you are making the huge mistake glorifying monaspa that did not play vital role in success of Georgia in the 12 century. I know you studied the history of Georgia from the books that imply that monaspa was something very important (yes, it was important but not as important as feudal army!) created by Davit that noble (tavad-aznauroba) were bad people fighting with the "king" and commoners, while monaspa was the force use by Davit IV against the feudal lords. But all this assumptions are not true. This was communist ideology to fight against the Georgian nobility (Marxists hated the noble class) and to present the ''king'' as liberator of the peasants. This is simply not true. The true is that in 12th century Georgia the major striking force were the Georgian nobility - this nobility could be divided into three major classes - Didebuli (former didaznauri), Tadzreuli (the royal palace guards composed by various social groups) and aznauri (the most nobles among them are tsikhovani aznauri, those who hold the "tsikhe"/fortress, but they could be rendered as didebuli, or didebuli aznauri. single term, "aznauri" was used for those who did not exercised so much power and had no fortress).

Once again, my suggestion is supplement monaspa with didebuli and to make monaspa as elite Cuman troops of Georgia comparable to didebuli but a little bit weaker just because major success of the Georgian army was based on the heaviest Georgian cavalry and the best Georgian ammunition was affordable for the wealthiest Georgian feudal lords rendered as didebuli by 15th century and called as tavadi (tavadi was comparable to mtavari before 15th century) after 15th century. All this I writing for the sake of debate but for the sake of the future of the Georgian faction especially in the Medieval 3 total war, as I am quite confident that the next total war title gone be the The Medieval 3 Total War.
For this mode, I am not really interested to play it, I prefer to play with Caucasian factions from Attila's age as this part of the history of Caucasus is also very interesting to me. But CA failed to make them playable while they made tiny and unimportant Ebdanians and Caledonians as playable factions in Attila TW. Hope to see the Caucasian mode for the Attila main campaign in the future.
Anyway, wish you success in this mode.

1) Here see the link picture of the source

[Levan]

JERUSALEM
My friend, firstly, i will translate the first paragraph of this text which is the only important in this case. It is written in Medieval Georgian but i can easily understand it.(Also i won't mess up the rows for you to better understand which part i am translating.)

"And he settled Cumans in convenient place for them with their families, among
them were 40000 picked warriors. He gave them horses and
weapons; and after them slaves(dedicated), who were chosen and mastered in service,
5000 men, each of them was Christian, reliable and experienced in courage;
and also most of the Cumans were becoming christian day by day and a big number
joined the Jesus."

I don't know the whole text but in this part the historian clearly didn't say that the King chose 5000 men from 40000 Cumans.

Secondly, Monaspa was elite backbone of Georgian army, it was professional regular force. They weren't peasants, They were aznaurs and also freemen, they were guards of the king and prince, and they were used in especially important situations to guarantee success, just like Napoleon's old guard they were kept behind the main army. But layout of Georgian army is another topic.
I don't know whether Marxists confused Monaspa with slaves and peasants or they just wisely and deceitfully used the word "mona", but Monaspa was complected with nobles and freemen for sure. Regular army were Metsikhovnes, Monaspa was elite professional and also regular. Regular in this case means that serving in the army was their profession, not more or less.
And no i didn't study anything in communist books, i just couldn't. I will even ask for the detailed information about Monaspa to one professor(real professor who was teaching in US NY and has read many lectures around the EU, including Cambridge University). He hates communists and has a different view about literally everything and he always tries to show us the truth and reality behind what was written and found.
You said: "Tadzreuli (the royal palace guards composed by various social groups)". Just remove the word "palace" and you will get the description of Monaspa.

And yes you are right, main force was Feudal army, it was vanguard of the United Georgian army, it was left flank, it was right flank, it was main cavalry force, but Monaspa was like backbone which is responsible of staying on feet after something hard hits human that can't be stopped by hands or which provides more pushing power after muscles of the hands aren't enough.
Cumans were reserve which was mostly used to hunt down running enemy, and in piece time they were raiding enemy garrisons near the borders.

In my opinion Dudebuli should be added as additional cavalry which will have horse armor, so it will be better equipped than royal force but less disciplined.

And the last, if i don't mention something, that means i agree with you.

[Caucasian Iberia]

JERUSALEM

In my opinion Dudebuli should be added as additional cavalry which will have horse armor, so it will be better equipped than royal force but less disciplined.

And the last, if i don't mention something, that means i agree with you.

Oh really? can you point us which unit must be out of roster?

Monaspa cavalry? Tadzreuli cavalry?
because both are heavy cavalry and there is no place for another one...

stop arguing about history and i must notice this is a PC game and it can not be perfect.

So something must be sacrificed and something must be created in order to finish Georgian roster at last.

1 - Monaspa Guard - Royal Guard, Switch ability Lance - Sword - Bow (Full Lamellar horse Armor) - Upgrading stats in T2 and T3. (Design can be same for every tier if upgrading by stats)
2 - Monaspa Cavalry - Heavy cavalry, SWITCH ability Lance-Sword (Can be used as Melee and Shock cavalry) (Upgrading by T2 and T3)
3 - Tadzreuli Cavalry - Elite shock cavalry - Unique Unit for this Faction - Excellent charge bonus, extended stamina (Full Lamellar horse Armor) (Upgrading by T2 and T3)
4 - Aznauri Lancers - Medium Melee cavalry (Upgrading by T2 only)
5 - Cuman medium and heavy horse archers
6 - Aznauri horse Shotgunner (T3 unit - Late period unit)

1 - Tadzreuli infantry - Elite heavy infantry (Swords + maces) - Upgrading by T2 and T3
2 - Metsikhovne spearmen - Heavy spearmen - Bonus when in Cities and Castles and forts, Upgrading by T2-T3
3 - Mtieli swordsmen - Medium infantry - Unique Unit for Faction - Very good stamina, Hiding anywhere, Enrage ability (Increasing melee attack) (Upgradin T2-T3)
4 - Georgian Spearmen - Medium Spearmen (Upgrade to T2)
5 - Georgian Axemen - Heavy axemen (Upgrade to T2 - T3)
6 - Levy Spearmen

1 - Monaspa Archers - Heavy archers - SWITCH ability Bow+shield - Sword+shield
2 - Metsikhovne Archers - Medium Archers - 2x amunition when in Castles or Cities or forts, high reload rate. (T2 to T3)
3 - Svan Archers - Light Archers - Unique Unit for Faction - Extended shooting Range, Hiding ability, Heavy shot, Poisoned shot, Firing shot, Whistling shot. (T2 to T3)
4 - Svan Crossbowmen - Medium Crossbowmen - Hiding ability, heavy shot (T2 to T3)
5 - Metsikhovne Shotgunners - Mediem SHotgunners - 2x amunition bonus when in Cities and Castles or forts. T3 unit.
6 - Levy archers

So there is 7 cavalry units. 6 infantry units. 6 missile units. + few artillery + few navy.
So there is not room for another one.
Roster is balanced and have some unique units like:
- Monaspa Cavalry - Heavy cavalry, SWITCH ability Lance-Sword (Can be used as Melee and Shock cavalry) (Upgrading by T2 and T3)
- Tadzreuli Cavalry - Elite shock cavalry - Unique Unit for this Faction - Excellent charge bonus, extended stamina (Full Lamellar horse Armor) (Upgrading by T2 and T3)
- Mtieli swordsmen - Medium infantry - Unique Unit for Faction - Very good stamina, Hiding anywhere, Enrage ability (Increasing melee attack) (Upgradin T2-T3)
- Svan Archers - Light Archers - Unique Unit for Faction - Extended shooting Range, Hiding ability, Heavy shot, Poisoned shot, Firing shot, Whistling shot. (T2 to T3)
- Monaspa Archers - Heavy archers - SWITCH ability Bow+shield - Sword+shield

Stop arguing about it...

[Levan]

CI, have you seen the diversity of other factions?

I would add Didebuls as very limited high noble cavalry who can afford best equipment. while Monaspa and Tadzreuli would be main elite force.
I would also add Metsikhovne crossbowmen if Metsikhovne shotgunners are being added.

But there is only one thing what has to be done. I would change the name "Georgian Axemen" to "Meskhi Infantry" and i would equip them with both swords and axes, so they would be lighter version of tadzreuli. It would be historically accurate since Meskhs were the vanguard of Georgian Army.

[JERUSALEM]

JERUSALEM
My friend, firstly, i will translate the first paragraph of this text which is the only important in this case. It is written in Medieval Georgian but i can easily understand it.(Also i won't mess up the rows for you to better understand which part i am translating.)

"And he settled Cumans in convenient place for them with their families, among
them were 40000 picked warriors. He gave them horses and
weapons; and after them slaves(dedicated), who were chosen and mastered in service,
5000 men, each of them was Christian, reliable and experienced in courage;
and also most of the Cumans were becoming christian day by day and a big number
joined the Jesus."

I don't know the whole text but in this part the historian clearly didn't say that the King chose 5000 men from 40000 Cumans.

Secondly, Monaspa was elite backbone of Georgian army, it was professional regular force. They weren't peasants, They were aznaurs and also freemen, they were guards of the king and prince, and they were used in especially important situations to guarantee success, just like Napoleon's old guard they were kept behind the main army. But layout of Georgian army is another topic.
I don't know whether Marxists confused Monaspa with slaves and peasants or they just wisely and deceitfully used the word "mona", but Monaspa was complected with nobles and freemen for sure. Regular army were Metsikhovnes, Monaspa was elite professional and also regular. Regular in this case means that serving in the army was their profession, not more or less.
And no i didn't study anything in communist books, i just couldn't. I will even ask for the detailed information about Monaspa to one professor(real professor who was teaching in US NY and has read many lectures around the EU, including Cambridge University). He hates communists and has a different view about literally everything and he always tries to show us the truth and reality behind what was written and found.
You said: "Tadzreuli (the royal palace guards composed by various social groups)". Just remove the word "palace" and you will get the description of Monaspa.

And yes you are right, main force was Feudal army, it was vanguard of the United Georgian army, it was left flank, it was right flank, it was main cavalry force, but Monaspa was like backbone which is responsible of staying on feet after something hard hits human that can't be stopped by hands or which provides more pushing power after muscles of the hands aren't enough.
Cumans were reserve which was mostly used to hunt down running enemy, and in piece time they were raiding enemy garrisons near the borders.

In my opinion Dudebuli should be added as additional cavalry which will have horse armor, so it will be better equipped than royal force but less disciplined.

And the last, if i don't mention something, that means i agree with you.

Whole passage is about Cumans, not about the Georgians or any other nation. Just read it closely. Also, it is written that those 5000 were all baptized as Christians (ყოველნი ქრისტინე-ქმნილნი), even this phase relates that those 5000 monani (monaspa) were not Christians in the beginning (while Georgians are Christians from their birth) and they were baptized later. It is obvious that they were baptized just as Davit IV needed Christian force for his newly created regular army. And this proceeding phrase (თუით ყივჩაყნიცა უმრავლესნი ქრისტიანე იქმნებოდეს) is about the rest of the Cumans (35 000). I think that 5000 warriors that composed the monaspa were mostly Cuman elite (რჩეულნი და განსწავლულნი ღვაწლისა - chosen and educated in merit [of Jesus]. Hence this means that they are chosen among chosen, and they also know merit of Jesus, as they are already baptized, hence they received general Christian education and knowledge about Jesus) warriors while others were commoners. So, Davit forced them to convert into Christianity simply to give them more privileges (wages, ammunition, horses etc.). As far as we know Cumans also had nobility and actually that must be researched how numerous was Cuman nobility in general to calculate how much was their number in Georgia. Because it is almost impossible to have 40 000 elite warriors from other nation while you do not have you own nobility more than 2-6% of the whole population.
I disagree with you about estimation of monaspa, while in Georgia they are highly esteemed, hence your opinion has a good ground while mine did not. But still we have quite few sourced about monaspa to show how worthy they were for the Georgian army of the 12 century.

Also, from the same historian (who actually dislikes Cumans) we learn that there was several attempt to kill Davit by his newly resettled Kipchaks (Cumans), most probably by monaspa (or by those who were not a good Christians and still worshiped their pagan Gods), as they were main body of Cuman army under the service of Davit. But Georgian nobles during the fierce struggle between "duke" Liparit IV Bagvashi and "king"/mephe Bagrat IV of Georgia never attempted even single assault on king just as king was thought to be the heir of prophet David of Israel. This was strong ideology that kept Bagrationi royal family in charge of Georgia for more than 1000 years. While Cumans did not really cared much about this divine nature of Bagrationi dynasty. According to Davit's historian Cumans were of treacherous nature and many nobles criticized Davit for their resettlement. But he tries to justify mephe's actions.

Caucasian Iberia

You said that mode could not be absolutely historical, you are correct, but you can improve it if you want. It is your chose, you are taking responsibility for the Georgian roster in this mode. This is my last post here. Once again, wish you luck in your endeavor.

[Caucasian Iberia]

1 - Monaspa Guard - Royal Guard, Switch ability Lance - Sword - Bow (Full Lamellar horse Armor) - Upgrading stats in T2 and T3. (Design can be same for every tier if upgrading by stats)
2 - Monaspa Cavalry - Heavy cavalry, SWITCH ability Lance-Sword (Can be used as Melee and Shock cavalry) (Upgrading by T2 and T3)
3 - Tadzreuli Cavalry - Elite heavy shock cavalry - Unique Unit for this Faction - Excellent charge bonus, extended stamina (Full Lamellar horse Armor) (Upgrading by T2 and T3)
4 - Aznauri Lancers - Medium Melee cavalry (Upgrading by T2 only)
5 - Cuman medium horse archers
6 - Cuman heavy horse archers
7 - Aznauri horse Shotgunner (T3 unit - Late period unit)

1 - Tadzreuli infantry - Elite heavy infantry (Swords + maces) - Upgrading by T2 and T3
2 - Metsikhovne spearmen - Heavy spearmen - Bonus when in Cities and Castles and forts, Upgrading by T2-T3
3 - Meskhetian swordsmen - Heavy infantry – Byzantyne type shields and swords. Upgrading by (T2 - T3)
4 - Mtieli swordsmen - Medium infantry - Unique Unit for Faction - Very good stamina, Hiding anywhere, Enrage ability(Increasing melee attack) (Upgradin T2-T3)
5 - Georgian Spearmen - Medium Spearmen (Upgrade to T2)
6 - Georgian Axemen - Heavy axemen (Upgrade to T2 - T3)
7 - Levy Spearmen

1 - Monaspa Archers - Heavy archers - SWITCH ability Bow+shield - Sword+shield
2 - Metsikhovne Archers - Medium Archers - 2x amunition when in Castles or Cities or forts, high reload rate. (T2 to T3)
3 - Svan Archers - Light Archers - Unique Unit for Faction - Extended shooting Range, Hiding ability, Heavy shot, Poisoned shot, Firing shot, Whistling shot. (T2 to T3)
4 - Svan Crossbowmen - Medium Crossbowmen - Hiding ability, heavy shot (T2 to T3)
5 - Metsikhovne Shotgunners - Mediem SHotgunners - 2x amunition bonus when in Cities and Castles or forts. T3 unit.
6 - Levy archers


Meskhetian swordsmen: famous tribe in Moschia or Meskhetia(southern Georgia). Ancient tribes of Meskhi or Moschi and Mosiniks are the first known inhabitant tribes from prehistoric era till today. Some scholars credit Meskhs (Mossynoeci) with invention of Iron metallurgy. From 2nd millenium to 7th century BC Meskh tribe was part of Kingdom of Diauehi. Noble houses of Toreli, Jaqeli and Akhaltsikheli were meskhetian nobles.

Agreed on This roster:
Saqartvelo55
Levan

[Levan]

J,

There is written "ქრისტე-ქმნილნი", which in modern Georgian means "Christ-made". It can be understood as "christian-born" so don't accuse me as i said i didn't know the whole text.
But even if the historian calls them Monas that doesn't mean that he means Monaspa. Maybe the word was used to describe their loyalty.
What about Monaspa in later centuries? Were treacherous Cumans serving in Queen Tamar's elite force, when the kingdom was totally centralized with the largest in history ethnically Georgian population? Number of Cumans compared to Georgians would be modern Georgian population compared to China.

We can argue about this forever because we don't know anything for sure and there are sources which are contradictory, just like the sources about real army sizes. So lets Just leave Monaspa as Georgian elite force and not Cuman. You may agree that this won't spoil the historical accuracy too much because whether Monaspa was Georgian or Cuman force, that doesn't touch the rest of the roster and overall anything except their origin.

[Ltd.]

Alright, so I am going to base any further unit additions and unit revamps for Georgia on what has been agreed on until this very post and will disregard anything that is being discussed in the future in terms of units.
Pictures are welcome, of course.

[Caucasian Iberia]

Ltd. we will agree on the roster in few hours.
Tatdzreuli infantry is not correct - Tadzreuls were Super Heavy elite Shock cavalry. Kind of Medieval Tanks. So Tadzreuli infantry must be renamed to Meskhetian Swordsmen.

1 - Monaspa Guard - Royal Guard, Switch ability Lance - Sword - Bow (Full Lamellar horse Armor) - Upgrading stats in T2 and T3. (Design can be same for every tier if upgrading by stats)
2 - Monaspa Cavalry - Heavy cavalry, SWITCH ability Lance-Sword (Can be used as Melee and Shock cavalry) (Upgrading by T2 and T3)
3 - Tadzreuli Cavalry - Elite heavy shock cavalry - Unique Unit for this Faction - Excellent charge bonus, extended stamina (Full Lamellar horse Armor) (Upgrading by T2 and T3)
4 - Aznauri Lancers - Medium Melee cavalry (Upgrading by T2 only)
5 - Cuman medium horse archers
6 - Cuman heavy horse archers
7 - Aznauri horse Shotgunner (T3 unit - Late period unit)

1 - Tadzreuli infantry (Same design unit better armored like in Picture, Byzantine type swords not Georgian type, Shields are perfect) - Elite heavy infantry (Swords + Maces) - Upgrading by T2 and T3
2 - Metsikhovne spearmen - Heavy spearmen (Bigger shields, like in Georgian Aux for Mongol roster) - Bonus when in Cities and Castles and forts, Upgrading by T2-T3
3 - Mtieli swordsmen - Medium infantry - Unique Unit for Faction - Very good stamina, Hiding anywhere, Enrage ability(Increasing melee attack) (Upgradin T2-T3)
4 - Georgian Spearmen - Medium Spearmen (Upgrade to T2)
5 - Levy Spearmen

1 - Monaspa Archers - Heavy archers - SWITCH ability Bow+shield - Sword+shield
2 - Metsikhovne Archers - Medium Archers - 2x amunition when in Castles or Cities or forts, high reload rate. (T2 to T3)
3 - Svan Archers - Light Archers - Unique Unit for Faction - Extended shooting Range, Hiding ability, Heavy shot, Poisoned shot, Firing shot, Whistling shot. (T2 to T3)
4 - Svan Crossbowmen - Medium Crossbowmen - Hiding ability, heavy shot (T2 to T3)
5 - Metsikhovne Shotgunners - Mediem SHotgunners - 2x amunition bonus when in Cities and Castles or forts. T3 unit.
6 - Levy archers



Agreed on This roster:
Caucasian Iberia Group - Agree
Saqartvelo55 - Agree
Levan - Agree
Tadzreuli - ?
JERUSALEM - Agree
Khevsur - ?

Monaspa Guard:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Tadzreul Cavalry:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Monaspa Cavalry: (Left)

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Tadzreuli infantry:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Metsikhovne Spearmen:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Mtieli swordsmen:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[Ltd.]

Ok.The majority agreed on this. This is the roster then.
Also, the pictures help a lot. Thank you.

[Caucasian Iberia]

Ok.The majority agreed on this. This is the roster then.
Also, the pictures help a lot. Thank you.

You r welcome.

Ltd. we all keep an eye on your work and your design is outstanding!!!
We believe both 2'd and 3'd models will look as good as usual. And this will be one step forward to finalize unit models and begin work on campaign.

PS: That, Late Bulgarian Guards were fantastic.

[Levan]

I have found a great page of one Georgian blacksmith who has very interesting collection. At first i was going to copy some pictures but they are too many with nice descriptions under each of them.
So i suggest you to do the following steps:
1)Open the page
2)Click on the mouse right button and choose translate to English
3)Start scrolling the page down slowly while viewing the pictures and reading the descriptions.

http://georgians-weapons.com/arnold-tetruashvili.htm

You will find there:
1)Khevsur swords with unique handles, also other Khevsur equipment.
2)Georgian straight swords and daggers
3)Georgian battle ax.
4)Some Persian and Ottoman type swords, Rifles, pistols.
5)As a bonus 3rd President of Georgia, Patriarch of Georgian Church, etc...

P.S.
This one will be nice for Meskhi Swordsmen:

Spoiler for Georgian straight sword: 

[Caucasian Iberia]

Finally all agree on this roster. Waiting for Lts. and his skills.


1 - Monaspa Guard - Royal Guard, Switch ability Lance - Sword - Bow (Full Lamellar horse Armor) - Upgrading stats in T2 and T3. (Design can be same for every tier if upgrading by stats)
2 - Monaspa Cavalry - Heavy cavalry, SWITCH ability Lance-Sword (Can be used as Melee and Shock cavalry) (Upgrading by T2 and T3)
3 - Tadzreuli Cavalry - Elite heavy shock cavalry - Unique Unit for this Faction - Excellent charge bonus, extended stamina (Full Lamellar horse Armor) (Upgrading by T2 and T3)
4 - Aznauri Lancers - Medium Melee cavalry (Upgrading by T2 only)
5 - Cuman medium horse archers
6 - Cuman heavy horse archers
7 - Aznauri horse Shotgunner (T3 unit - Late period unit)

1 - Tadzreuli Guard (Same design unit better armored like in Picture, Byzantine type swords not Georgian type, Shields are perfect) - Elite heavy infantry (Swords + Maces + Axes) - Upgrading by T2 and T3
2 - Aznauri Swordsmen - Heavy Infantry (Large Shields, Swords) - Upgrading by T2-T3
3 - Metsikhovne spearmen - Heavy spearmen (Bigger shields, like in Georgian Aux in Mongol roster) - Bonus when in Cities and Castles and forts, Upgrading by T2-T3
4 - Mtieli swordsmen - Medium infantry - Unique Unit for Faction - Very good stamina, Hiding anywhere, Enrage ability(Increasing melee attack) (Upgradin T2-T3)
5 - Georgian Spearmen - Medium Spearmen (Upgrade to T2)
6 - Levy Spearmen

1 - Monaspa Archers - Heavy archers - SWITCH ability Bow+shield - Sword+shield
2 - Metsikhovne Archers - Medium Archers - 2x amunition when in Castles or Cities or forts, high reload rate. (T2 to T3)
3 - Svan Archers - Light Archers - Unique Unit for Faction - Extended shooting Range, Hiding ability, Heavy shot, Poisoned shot, Firing shot, Whistling shot. (T2 to T3)
4 - Svan Crossbowmen - Medium Crossbowmen - Hiding ability, heavy shot (Upgrade to T3)
5 - Metsikhovne Shotgunners - Mediem SHotgunners - 2x amunition bonus when in Cities and Castles or forts. T3 unit.
6 - Levy archers



Agreed on This roster:
Caucasian Iberia Group - Agree
Saqartvelo55 - Agree
Levan - Agree
Tadzreuli - Agree
JERUSALEM - Agree
Khevsur - ?

Dividing by Military buildings T1-T2-T3

T1 building -----------------------------> T2 Building ------------------------------> T3 Building
None -----------------------------------> Tadzreuli Cavalry --------------------------> Veteran Tadzreuli Cavalry
Junior Monaspa -------------------------> Monaspa Cavalry --------------------------> Monaspa Guard
Aznauri Lancers -------------------------> Same as T1 -------------------------------> Aznauri Horse Shotgunners
Cuman light H.Archers -------------------> Cuman Heavy H.Archers -------------------> Same as T2

None -----------------------------------> Dismounted Tadzreuli ---------------------> Dismounted Tadzreuli Guard
None -----------------------------------> Aznauri Swordsmen -----------------------> Veteran Aznauri Swordsmen
None -----------------------------------> Metsikhovne Spearmen --------------------> Veteran Metsikhovne Spearmen
Mtieli Swordsmen ------------------------> Veteran Mtieli Swordsmen -----------------> Same as T2
Georgian Spearmen ----------------------> Veteran Georgian Spearmen ---------------> Same as T2

None -----------------------------------> Monaspa Archers --------------------------> Monaspa Guard Archers
Metsikhovne Archers --------------------> Metsikhovne Crossbowmen------------------> Metsikhovne Shotgunners
Svan Archers ---------------------------> Veteran Svan Archers ----------------------> Svan Guard
Svan Crossbowmen -------------------- -> None -------------------------------------> Veteran Svan Crossbowmen

[Tadzreuli]

thanks, GOD, finally ended )

[Caucasian Iberia]

Basic looks of units:

Tadzreuli cav: Shock Cav, highest Charge bonus in Roster and heaviest unit for Faction.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Monaspa Cav: Switch Ability Sword to Lance, Can be used both as Melee and Shock.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Dismounted Tadzreuli Infantry: This is Elite unit and expensive.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Aznauri Swordsmen: Heavy Swordsmen from Aznauri Class

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Metsikhovne Spearmen: Heavy Spearmen - needs bigger shields

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Mtieli Swordsmen: Medium infantry but higher melee attack and morale, Enrage Ability

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Georgian Spearmen: same as Mongol roster - Georgian Aux

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Svan Archers: - Unique unit. Extended range, Hiding ability, Heavy shot, Poisoned shot, Firing shot, Whistling shot

Hope it helpes.

I am gone for Holidays guys.

[Levan]

Warrior in Byzantine armor. His helmet will be nice for Aznauri swordsmen, Body armor for Monaspa, and armor on arms and legs for any Unit which will be ugraded.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Fresco of King David IV

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Illustration of King Vakhtang. Persians called him Gorgasal(wolfhead) because of his helmet.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

P.S.

Ltd., The reason why we with CI and Tadzreuli decided to add extra heavy unit(Aznauri swordsmen) is that we wanted to fulfill historically main strength of KOG - melee infantry.
So Tadzreuli Guard should be equivalent of the most expensive units of other factions since they will be armored as well as Byzantine elite units and also they will have increased armor penetration because partially they are armed with axes. You may agree that armor penetration stat is needed to somehow counter late period full plate armor.
Aznauri swordsmen should be main regular heavy unit. Like Tadzreuli swordsmen are now.

Sorry for so many changes in the roster. I promise this was the last. From now everything is under your will(actually has always been ). From our side we will provide some more pictures if we have opportunity.

[Tadzreuli]

"...Svan Archers ---------------------------> Veteran Svan Archers ----------------------> Svan Guard "

what you mean in "SWAN GUARD" ? where did you ever seen this fantasy unit, from what historical sources did you read about this? ...