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  1. #61
    Daruwind's Avatar Citizen
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    Default Re: [Workshop] Daruwind's Building Trees and Resources

    After some more work the resource order seems to be influenced by something in DB. Mod renaming, different loading of mods doesnīt change the in-game resource order...

  2. #62

    Default Re: [Workshop] Daruwind's Building Trees and Resources

    Well, the list that shows buildings that can be constructed is listed by the unique ID # assigned in the slot template to building superchain junction table. Resources obviously don't have a number assigned to them that I'm aware of.

    Because they an effect tied to buildings, I'm guessing that the game may generate the resource list based on the order the game reads them from the buildings. Does the most recently constructed resource building move to the front or end of the line? Anything like that to serve as a clear tip-off?

    Another possibility could be something as simple as the order they are listed in the DB, but nothing ever seems to be quite that simple.


  3. #63
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    Default Re: [Workshop] Daruwind's Building Trees and Resources

    Well Iīm not so sure that the resource order is read from buildings....because in my resource mod I sent you there are no actual buildings...Honey,Livestock all the new resources are existing only as effects in DB... hmmm

    EDIT: and every DB table so far is listing different order. Numbering,alphabet...nothing seems to the right order.
    Last edited by Daruwind; July 19, 2014 at 04:14 PM.

  4. #64

    Default Re: [Workshop] Daruwind's Building Trees and Resources

    From my experience, something as simple as the order things are displayed can end up overly complex. I had that issue with buildings and edicts (to a much lesser extent).

    It could be multiple factors. The only suggestion I have is trial and error. I'll take a look at the mod you sent in the PM and try a few things to see if I can come up with any ideas.

    EDIT

    Something else that could be influencing it - the effects_table. The priority column controls the order that effects are displayed, or if they are displayed at all. For instance, an effect set to 0 won't appear at all/is hidden. All resources are set to 1. Playing with those numbers may give us a simple way to control display order. I'm just not sure if that would control how the UI shows the resource production in the other displays.
    Last edited by ABH2; July 19, 2014 at 04:46 PM.


  5. #65

    Default Re: [Workshop] Daruwind's Building Trees and Resources

    Well, something else to consider - what settlements would we want to have unique port lines? Right now, I have Syracuse, Athens, Alexandria, and Carthage down to be unique.

    Right now, I have Athens set up so that it has the following three government building lines:
    1. Athenian Boule - Unique, can't be built, only in Athens. Can't be destroyed currently like any other building, but it will be gone. Could set the deconstruct terminator. Prevents the construction of the normal Athens/Greek Boule line.
    2. Boule - Standard government building line.
    3. League assembly (based on how I've set up Athenian expansion)-Basically, it's a one-off building where delegates of the member states would have met. It's unique, and can be built anywhere the player chooses. Only one level.


  6. #66
    Daruwind's Avatar Citizen
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    Default Re: [Workshop] Daruwind's Building Trees and Resources

    I would add one port for Selucids to the city of Antioch, one for Rhodos, one for Massalia - port of Lacydon and what about ancient Byzantium? IT was with Rhodos naval power in eastern Mediterranean sea.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seleucia_Pieria

    Anyway we should ask Alec about faction list. Currently Iīm operating with vanilla faction list. Itīs similar question as with your unique cities. How many,for which nations..so we would not cripple factions with regular ones.

    From historical point of veiw barbarian factions would probably be from any unique sity as I see it. And question is,if the unique portsćities should be for all nations or just some. Like if barbars raze down Athens, will they get also unique/big city version for themselves or just ordinary province capitol?

    About modding resources.I have spent weekend by playing with resources and so far it looks like the resource effect could be added only to buildings. No region/province/faction setting so far was working, effect bundles...Whatīs more, these resource effects are affecting only the building they are attached to. Like we cannot add resource production to one building and having other building with boost to particulars resource production so it would modify production of first one. :/
    Last edited by Daruwind; July 20, 2014 at 08:33 PM.

  7. #67

    Default Re: [Workshop] Daruwind's Building Trees and Resources

    will they get also unique/big city version for themselves or just ordinary province capitol?
    Well, I try to emphasize that unique doesn't equal overpowered. One of the benefits of having these unique chains is that conquering a region could be different for different cultures. For instance, as Macedon, it could be more difficult to control those unique settlements in Greece (as it was historically). Or, Jerusalem could be tough to hold for most factions.

    In general, they will have duplicates of whatever expansion line I have set for them. So, if Rome conquers, say, Athens, it will have my Roman provincial building lines. Yet, I would be able to attach special effects related to make Athens still unique. That could be positive or negative. That's the plan I'm currently working with. It would do everything using wonders would do, only it would allow for those effects to change based on player choices where as with 'wonders' they would just be static effects.

    The plan is a lot of work, but I believe it will be worth it.

    Theoretically, if the game will support it, we could technically do unique settlement lines for every region, though that may be overkill.

    I may have to do a map that shows building chains to regions eventually.

    I would add one port for Selucids to the city of Antioch, one for Rhodos, one for Massalia - port of Lacydon and what about ancient Byzantium? IT was with Rhodos naval power in eastern Mediterranean sea.
    With the current map, I'd be against Byzantium being included as we have Tylis controlling the area. I agree with those you listed.

    Right now, I'm leaning to restricting unique ports a bit more than regions themselves for the simple fact that I have some ideas for ports and mercenary units that I've brought up in the past. That wouldn't impact adding resources through them or anything.
    Last edited by ABH2; July 20, 2014 at 08:42 PM.


  8. #68
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    Default Re: [Workshop] Daruwind's Building Trees and Resources

    Quote Originally Posted by ABH2 View Post
    Well, I try to emphasize that unique doesn't equal overpowered. One of the benefits of having these unique chains is that conquering a region could be different for different cultures. For instance, as Macedon, it could be more difficult to control those unique settlements in Greece (as it was historically). Or, Jerusalem could be tough to hold for most factions.

    In general, they will have duplicates of whatever expansion line I have set for them. So, if Rome conquers, say, Athens, it will have my Roman provincial building lines. Yet, I would be able to attach special effects related to make Athens still unique. That could be positive or negative. That's the plan I'm currently working with. It would do everything using wonders would do, only it would allow for those effects to change based on player choices where as with 'wonders' they would just be static effects.
    Yeah basically that was my question.

    Theoretically, if the game will support it, we could technically do unique settlement lines for every region, though that may be overkill.
    It is possible to do it. We are almost doing it now as at least I have a lot of resource primary buildings...and every one is there only for a few times in game...

    I may have to do a map that shows building chains to regions eventually.
    I would go for map and discussion how many really unique cities/ports we should have. They should keep feeling of being a little unique. And donīt spoile the game for others.

    With the current map, I'd be against Byzantium being included as we have Tylis controlling the area. I agree with those you listed.
    No problem I think so.

    Right now, I'm leaning to restricting unique ports a bit more than regions themselves for the simple fact that I have some ideas for ports and mercenary units that I've brought up in the past. That wouldn't impact adding resources through them or anything.
    Like having only one chain for these unique?

  9. #69

    Default Re: [Workshop] Daruwind's Building Trees and Resources

    It is possible to do it. We are almost doing it now as at least I have a lot of resource primary buildings...and every one is there only for a few times in game...
    My only question with regards to that is if there isn't some sort of hardcoded limit on the number buildings/chains. As of now, I don't think anyone knows that. Luckily, it seems as you said - a very high amount or unlimited.

    I would go for map and discussion how many really unique cities/ports we should have. They should keep feeling of being a little unique. And donīt spoile the game for others.
    To explain my point better - a unique region doesn't really have to be unique for the faction conquering. For the player, it would essentially be 'hidden' unless playing as a particular faction. I'd like for most factions to have capitals with boosted garrisons to help for survival and balance. At the least for major factions. So, those would be 'unique' chains, but if conquered, there wouldn't be large bonuses.

    The goal I have with the unique settlement lines is customization. In some cases, some provinces will have boosts. In others, it will just allow for more balance.

    So, let's take Syracuse. As of now, my Syracuse plan is to give it a pretty large garrison for Syracuse and only Syracuse. But for other factions/cultures, the garrison would be typical for that faction. Outside resources or special region effects to be determined (such as resources), it would be standard when conquered unless the player decides to place a larger garrison in the city. They would have the same choices they would have if they conquered a non-unique settlement.

    Regions will be different depending on who controls it and the choices they make.

    Like having only one chain for these unique?
    Well, mostly. On ports, we have some different ideas. I haven't tried to put it in place yet, but I've mentioned my idea with mercenary ports that would allow for recruitment of auxilla and mercs in a wider area. But the special port ideas I have now (outside resource ones) would be multi-functional ports.

    So, Athens or Syracuse would provide the ability to recruit naval units as well as trade boosts and perhaps a bit of food which would allow the player a bit of flexibility in designing their capitals. But, we can specialize these however we want, really.

    Restricting unique ports has more to do with a bit of laziness on my part. If I add the mercenary ports I intend, I think that may be a lot of work.

    The mercenary port may not work, however. Did you make any progress on figuring out the display order of resources?


  10. #70
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    Default Re: [Workshop] Daruwind's Building Trees and Resources

    Cheers man, looks like we both get down to one single idea for unique ports/primary buildings. Or at least you have a bad influence on me. Originally I was considering only having final unique level of buildings (like level 5. for Athens port...). But there were question how to limit it down only to particular port slot in Athens. So now I can finally appreciate idea of having unique ports in some places!

    About resource order no progress yet and sadly looks like we cannot have any effect which modify production of resources from other buildings. (like mine adding +n resource to production from primary building - Iron ,copper,gold,whatever) Only effect of direct resource production are possible.
    I have checked so far effect,bundles...nothing

    Regarding unique ports. One chain/more chain...itīs not such a problem. Once a port is unique, all sub chains could be unique too so overall abilities of them all are +/- same. Of course it could only contain one sub chain. No prolem with that.
    Last edited by Daruwind; July 20, 2014 at 09:56 PM.

  11. #71
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    Default Re: [Workshop] Daruwind's Building Trees and Resources

    Anyway,to make things easier. I set up one older map so we can draw as we wish. Lower is one blank map, second lower is with some examples of unique cities/ports so far. NPC sufix is for slots which are not at the beginning of the game under control of any playable faction.

    EDIT: I completed the map with up to date playable factions. Moved to the front page.
    Last edited by Daruwind; July 22, 2014 at 01:27 PM.

  12. #72
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    Default Re: [Workshop] Daruwind's Building Trees and Resources

    Done with resource maps for Grand/Hannibal/Ceasar campaigns. Added into the first page.
    Last edited by Daruwind; July 22, 2014 at 12:52 PM.

  13. #73
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    Default Re: [Workshop] Daruwind's Building Trees and Resources

    Itīs time to move on and get list of 4/6th free slots across the map. Also as nobody is going to dig out infos about Roma Surrectum I will probably try to do it myself.

  14. #74
    Hetairos's Avatar Roma Surrectum II
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    Default Re: [Workshop] Daruwind's Building Trees and Resources

    Nice work Daruwind. For AAW I would like to see what we can do with multiple resources per region or just use yours, but once we be able to create our own map with more regions I can also live with every region having one region only. This would be authentic enough. Right now like Peleponese is one province while it actually contains like 5 to 6 regions in real life. So its hard to make a choice for which region uses what resources.

  15. #75
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    Default Re: [Workshop] Daruwind's Building Trees and Resources

    My maps are only first draft at the moment. I want every resource at least in three spots for grand campaign. I have been thinking about resources for a while and divided resources into three categories.

    1) core resources which are essential for some high end buildings (like copper+iron for military stuff, timber+tar for navy powers, horses for good cav factions)
    2) resources which boost economy and are not essential for so many buildings (gold,silver,silk,marble,wine,olive oil - yet you will still need some for end game stuff like religion buildings,culture ones..)
    3) functional resources (bricks,livestock,honey) you are able to build multiple buildings to get access to these.

    EDIT: I basically agree with "more money from trade" but I would prefer if resources for that are those from 2) and especially 3). Category one can be pretty close to Shogun 2 resources. Those resources should matter.

    Of course the map has to be balance so you must try to obtain key resources for yourself. By trade or conquest. SO far it is really working. But some of these should be pretty limited in my option (max three spots - horses,salt,tar) If we get map tools we can add much more of them as there will be much more regions/provincies but still you should not have all of them just lying around. Thatīs no challange.
    Last edited by Daruwind; July 22, 2014 at 06:00 PM.

  16. #76
    Hetairos's Avatar Roma Surrectum II
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    Default Re: [Workshop] Daruwind's Building Trees and Resources

    allright, i find the idea of different resources interesting e.g. some key resources for buildings which will be placed strategically on the map for game design and balancing purposes and others for trade which are placed historically and geographically authentic. like olive oil in mediterranian, game in north and so on. That way we could also make trade between regions of the same type less valuable but increase its value if you trade lets say from egypt to macedon or from Carthage to Rome.

  17. #77
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    Default Re: [Workshop] Daruwind's Building Trees and Resources

    Finished overview for 4th/6th free slots around current map for possible one level static buildings. Added into first post.

  18. #78

    Default Re: [Workshop] Daruwind's Building Trees and Resources

    One idea I had for some of the more generic settlements in which we don't have important buildings to add would be river ports. It would create an extra strategic element to the game by prioritizing settlements that historically would have been good for trade routes besides away from the coast. I'm wondering if there is anyway to allow recruitment of navies from the major rivers down which they can sail. I sort of doubt that is possible, though, without map editing tools.

    So, they'd just be aesthetic buildings that boost trade in a region, I suppose. But it would make sense for those settlements along the Rhine.

    Other types of buildings could be related to key resources or units. If we are going to have the extra buildings and lose a few features of the game as a result, I think it makes sense to make use of it to add as much immersion as possible. I've mentioned a few sites for mines in the past, as well, as my plan is to make mines static buildings tied to regions which get bumped by tech research.

    A note on balancing - I'd like to see economics play a larger role in the game. I can't stand the late game when I can just buy everything I want in terms of armies and diplomacy. I think money should generally be tighter, and a large factor in going to war (at least for the human player, as the AI is going to need boosts).
    Last edited by ABH2; July 23, 2014 at 09:50 PM.


  19. #79
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    Default Re: [Workshop] Daruwind's Building Trees and Resources

    Quote Originally Posted by ABH2 View Post
    One idea I had for some of the more generic settlements in which we don't have important buildings to add would be river ports. It would create an extra strategic element to the game by prioritizing settlements that historically would have been good for trade routes besides away from the coast. I'm wondering if there is anyway to allow recruitment of navies from the major rivers down which they can sail. I sort of doubt that is possible, though, without map editing tools.

    So, they'd just be aesthetic buildings that boost trade in a region, I suppose. But it would make sense for those settlements along the Rhine.

    Other types of buildings could be related to key resources or units. If we are going to have the extra buildings and lose a few features of the game as a result, I think it makes sense to make use of it to add as much immersion as possible. I've mentioned a few sites for mines in the past, as well, as my plan is to make mines static buildings tied to regions which get bumped by tech research.
    Static one level river ports right? We can add in similar logic some pastures (according to place like farms,sheeps,pigs)....and your mines. About rivers, you are able to sail down big rivers (Nile,Danube around Dacia...)

    Only problem is the volume of produced resources. Current system produce like 20/40/80/160 units at level 1/2/3/4. We will of course redo income from trade and these volumes yet I think that level 4. Primary building/mines should produce alot more then level 1. What about these static buildings?

    Iīm not sure if we can boost resource produce by tech. I havenīt found any effect,that modify production from buildings (% or fix amount). We can just add direct resource production. Only exception is food production as far as I know. I would love effect for this_province/region to boost resource A production +10 ..so if primary building is producing 50 units of A it would then 60..

    A note on balancing - I'd like to see economics play a larger role in the game. I can't stand the late game when I can just buy everything I want in terms of armies and diplomacy. I think money should generally be tighter, and a large factor in going to war (at least for the human player, as the AI is going to need boosts).
    100% Agree. But at the moment I would like to focus more on resources vs buildings interaction.

  20. #80

    Default Re: [Workshop] Daruwind's Building Trees and Resources

    Iīm not sure if we can boost resource produce by tech. I havenīt found any effect,that modify production from buildings (% or fix amount). We can just add direct resource production. Only exception is food production as far as I know. I would love effect for this_province/region to boost resource A production +10 ..so if primary building is producing 50 units of A it would then 60..
    In terms of resources, you are correct. But there is an effect in game to boost income from mines and some similar effects for things like agriculture etc. I think most of the GDP mods (that provide money directly) have effects that can be boosted. That's my plan for mines.

    About rivers, you are able to sail down big rivers (Nile,Danube around Dacia...)
    Yea, but I'm still not sure if a port added in would function correctly if it allowed for recruitment of naval units.


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