Campidoctor
What more would you want to add to EBII?
The suggestion thread has been lonely for some time, no fault to anyone, but with what EBII already has in the mod, what more would you want to see?
I'm talking about the possibility of new buildings, traits, events in the game that could simulate historical situations or just stories in game to add flavour, there are a lot of possibilities within the limits of the game.
And no Roma, no talking about introducing the princess agenttalk about other things!
Civis
Re: What more would you want to add to EBII?
Being able to use colonists from other cultural groups aside from your own would be cool. Probably nightmarish to implement, but cool.
Less nightmarish but still hefty would be seeing Eleutheroi (eg. Cimbri, Helvetii, Yuezhi) "barbarian" migrations shake up the board. The idea is as much to curb the larger "barbarian" factions as it is for the replication of historical events. Ideally they'd mostly hit the Sweboz 1st Reich that keeps taking over Europa, and perhaps the USSauRomatae too.
Having the act of building Large/Huge City-tier massive buildings adding to authority and prestige would be great. According to Chang 'An 26 BCE: An Augustan Age in China, the construction of monumental architecture was key to expressing the Princep's universal authority to all who lay eyes on Roma.
Last but not least, being able to demolish Hellenistic Poleis would help satisfy the control freak in me. It's not that I'm bothered by a widespread Hellenic presence, it's that the Hellenic Factions' AI is obsessed with rushing Metropoleis everywhere. It's like it's been programmed by Syndrome from the Incredibles.
Originally Posted by Syndrome
Campidoctor
Re: What more would you want to add to EBII?
Interesting feedback!
As a fellow modder, doesn't the Yuezhi invasion already exists in EBII? Still, it might not be that hard to have at least one of the invasions like the Cimbri one in the game, it would be quite fun! I don't know the teams plans, but maybe in the future I can script a Cimbri invasion, it would basically end up to just spawning rebel german armies and adding one more event to the game called the Cimbri invasion or something like that.
We could do something like that... Like using the Guilds mechanic for that, let's say that the player gets 80/90/100 settlements which would be an empire size faction, the player would then start to receive invitations to build a "Grand Monument" in the cities, highly costing of course, with one unique "Grand Monument", like a new wonder of the world to celebrate his faction greatness. We could have different descriptions for at least each culture in the game and also different images. It would need more arguments for this since I prefer something to be more historical and less gamey, and for now seems a lot more gamey. Nevertheless, it can be added by everyone as a submod.Having the act of building Large/Huge City-tier massive buildings adding to authority and prestige would be great. According to Chang 'An 26 BCE: An Augustan Age in China, the construction of monumental architecture was key to expressing the Princep's universal authority to all who lay eyes on Roma.
Never noticed it much, are they really that annoying? Doesn't screaming to them "go back to hellas or you will get the hella out of here by force" solves the issue?being able to demolish Hellenistic Poleis would help satisfy the control freak in me. It's not that I'm bothered by a widespread Hellenic presence, it's that the Hellenic Factions' AI is obsessed with rushing Metropoleis everywhere. It's like it's been programmed by Syndrome from the Incredibles.
More serious, maybe increasing the requirements on the Metropoleis...let's wait and see more feedback
Civis
Re: What more would you want to add to EBII?
Thanks, I aim to interest.
Unfortunately I don't have the distinction of being a modder, though I've worked with game engines before. If the Yuezhi invasion exists in the game, then it's passed me by. In 2.35 I have three playthroughs that have went past the date for the Yuezhi migrations, and I haven't seen them even when I was expanding to Baktria as Hayastan.
There is a script spawning rebel stacks for Makedon and Epeiros (though those are player-exclusive, I'm thinking of curbing the dominance of the AI Sweboz faction.) This theoretical script shouldn't be too different.
Nice. That would spice up the endgame pretty nicely, though I'd say 50/60 settlements is enough to hit the Empire scale.
This is different to what I had in mind. I was thinking more along the lines of adding authority to the Faction Leader for building things like Tier 4/5 Temples, Markets, etc. It's true that military success was the quickest way to success in the ancient world, but it seems funding expensive buildings was also a fundamental activity for the rulers of that age.
I tried that. Then they tried to bring back Koinon Hellenon.
My rule of thumb is: if it's developed into a City, and it's in Hellas or in an area with significant, uninterrupted Hellenic influence, then there's a good chance it's a Metropolis. I imagine those who prefer to build their empire quickly won't let the AI get that far. I usually don't take control of Hellas until after a hundred turns, even if my faction right there.
Honestly, it's not that annoying. My main gripes are that, in between what I've read for the most prominent Hellenic cities and some of the descriptions in this mod, I'm under the impression a Metropolis is a rare and distinguished thing; plus, in history Poleis were destroyed/uprooted for the purposes of colonization and profit. I also spent most of 2.35 playing on Hard difficulty, and the AI is notably better at developing settlements and empires compared to Medium difficulty.
I'd say most of the current requirements for a Metropolis are good, the one thing I'd change is making Metropoleis buildable in Large/Huge Cities only. It seems that the Large/Huge City is a more appropriate setting for the finest Hellenic cities.
EBII Hod Carrier
Re: What more would you want to add to EBII?
The basic elements of that script apply to all, but there are a lot more events for the player of the factions assumed to be most likely to play in that area - Saka, Baktria, Taksashila, Seleukids, Sauromatae and Pahlava. Hayastan isn't assumed to be one of those.
The root of this problem is that the AI doesn't have the restriction of colony points, and indeed would be unable to handle them not "understanding" the system. It builds them because it loves anything that offers recruitment.
On higher campaign difficulties, the AI has even bigger discounts on construction, which will be why they are better at developing settlements.
I'm not going to change the settlement size requirement for Metropoleis, because that would make most of Greece (!) impossible to move all the way up, which would be bizarre. A potential solution might be the same as I did with Allied Governments; add a "precursor" building with no recruitment that would change the AI's construction calculations. Though it would have to be done in consideration of the same approach for the colony buildings.
Campidoctor
Re: What more would you want to add to EBII?
I see. There would be two ways in which we could do it and they could work together.
One would be having a trigger that checks if the governor of a settlement builds those higher level buildings, if the governor is a Faction Leader, the trigger would then give him +1 authority.
The second option could be creating an event with an option to expend a huge sum of money for a great project. Accepting it would give authority to the FL and would cost a lot of money while declining it would do nothing.
Quintus already gave some good replies regarding the other things.
Campidoctor
Re: What more would you want to add to EBII?
How about a limited availability of unconventional units? Stuff that you can't recruit normally but you might get via a reward from a mission. Basically, why can't we get a single flaming pigs unit if its a one time thing in the entire campaign, since it was a one-time thing in real life it would still be historical. I think there can be some room for some neat little one-off oddity units that can spice up an army but can never become a regular trainable unit. You know, stuff like the gastraphetes and the kestrosphendone.
On that note, what about special units in the capital garrison script? It would be neat to say besiege Rome and see the defenders have some Equites who are infantry instead of Cavalry, and also some townsfolk who throw rocks.
EBII Hod Carrier
Re: What more would you want to add to EBII?
We don't have unit slots to spare for "unusual" or one-off units. Every slot has something intended for it.
On the other hand, tinkering with the specific units of the garrison script could be done; I do wonder about removing cavalry from them altogether, since they're worse than useless in a siege.
Civis
Re: What more would you want to add to EBII?
There are lot one-settlement factions surrounded by full stacked rebel armies. This of course, leads to very slow expansion for the most factions. This is extremely annoying when you play as Rome, having good economy and ever stronger terminator class units, leading to boring campaign for arguably the most important faction in EB. I would suggest turn two auto expansion via script so as to get things started.
Tiro
Re: What more would you want to add to EBII?
I strongly disagree. Those full stacks curb the Romans somewhat, and prevents them roflstomping the other factions. I almost exclusively play as the Romans, and those rebel stacks keep me on my toes.
EBII Hod Carrier
Re: What more would you want to add to EBII?
There's already an "opening move" for many factions - sometimes they succeed, sometimes they don't.
The Rebel situation will change quite significantly with the patch, "bandits" in the random unco-ordinated spawns are gone, replaced with 5- or 8-unit stacks with a proper commander and decent composition on a cooldown and random. There's no longer a "safe interior" where you can skimp on your garrisons.
Tiro
Re: What more would you want to add to EBII?
i would like to see that if a settlement is sacked it is brought down a level in development. in the later game there are so many huge cities and it would be cool if a region was devastated in a war that it would go down a level. just need a way to prevent it from being abused.
Re: What more would you want to add to EBII?
I'd have two things I'd like to see, personally, but they're more changes than additions. (Addition-wise I'd love a more "fleshed-out" neutral faction, maybe using a faction slot for better ai/scripting options, and of course more units! Always more units!)
1. The ability to demolish Hellenistic poleis. I always find it annoying that they're just sort of there forever, and the AI really carpets the map with them. If I can Hellenise a territory then, purely for roleplaying purposes, it would be nice if I could de-Hellenise it too, particularly when playing as a faction that doesn't benefit from, or even really interact with, the polis building.
2. Limit the amount of huge cities, like the CityMod submod for the original EB did. Have large and huge cities require special resources or tags that only some cities have (like the ones that let you build massive docks and proper warfleets) to represent certain territories being far more populous and valuable.
Campidoctor
Re: What more would you want to add to EBII?
It would be awesome to have a system similar to TATW DAC were when you assault a city, depending on the size and faction, it gets unique units to defend the settlement and after the siege, they disappear, even if you're the player. This is done with a script that disbands those units after the battle, that's why they need to be unique, because the script will disband all units of that type. However, due to the units limits we can't do it in EBII because lets not waste units slots for units that will be similar to the factions militias.
Is it like that? I remember Roma Victrix 1000 turns campaigh where he said that apart from his own cities, there were very few huge cities.i would like to see that if a settlement is sacked it is brought down a level in development. in the later game there are so many huge cities and it would be cool if a region was devastated in a war that it would go down a level. just need a way to prevent it from being abused
Civis
Re: What more would you want to add to EBII?
That's reasonable, though I was a bit let down there wasn't a sort of "homecoming" trait for a Yervanduni conquest of Baktria, or the ability to recruit Baktrian elite infantry or cavalry through Allied Governments.
Impossible for the player to max out Greece, or the AI?
Maybe this intermediate building could be a law to install colonies like the Roman Military Colonies?
A "why not both" approach would be fine with me. The Boioi already have something similar to the first option with their Colony Founder traits.
Call me Ishmael
Re: What more would you want to add to EBII?
Princesses are pretty, though. They're nice and soft for heavy petting,And no Roma, no talking about introducing the princess agentand more importantly they allow you to maintain your royal dynasty with familial intermarriage.
Personally I'd like to see one more type of Jewish unit in the game aside from the Ioudaioi Taxeis, or at the very least an armor upgrade that gives them thureos shields or something, instead of the outdated look they have belonging to the early 3rd century BC even when going into the latter half of the 1st century BC as I reach 1000 turns in the game. If not infantry, perhaps cavalry? Did some Jews serve in Hellenistic empires as cavalrymen at any time? Or was it just infantry, infantry, infantry?
Also, since we're on the topic of Hebrews, citizens of TWC be aware, that Herod, vassal of Rome and king of Galilee, has entered the forum. By order of the moderators, during his residence here, all mockery of the Jews and their one god shall be kept to an appropriate...MINIMUM.
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
I don't like that idea at all. It takes forever to get to a huge city level and if I build it up, I don't want some dumb enemy faction tearing it down before I have a chance to retake my huge city that I built with my own blood, sweat, and tears. Besides, I'm not even sure the M2TW hard-coded mechanics even allows you to mod the game like this.
Last edited by Roma_Victrix; July 24, 2019 at 01:29 AM.
Re: What more would you want to add to EBII?
I haven't played all EB2 campaigns, only short campaigns for several factions, so I'm sorry if my ideas are already implemented in some way.
- More mood traits, hopefully ones that can be triggered by personal life or random events. Family death should trigger a Mourning trait, decreasing Command for a turn or more depending on personality. Death of Faction Leader should gives Mourning trait to all family member, and should make a faction more likely to accept ceasefire (is it possible?). Poor/good harvest should affect mood for good farmer characters too, I think.
- More ancillary objects. I think ancillary mechanism is more suited to objects rather than persons, so more of them would be nice. I'm thinking objects like heirloom weapon/helmet, good luck charms, amber ring when capturing amber route settlements, etc. Especially for agents I think would be nice if my spies could get anything other than Courtesan and Dancer.
I usually only garrison one or two cavalry unit in a settlement, usually to sally forth from back door and flank the enemy that are attacking the main gate. Unless all gates are compromised, in which case their only use is to chase routing enemy before regrouping. It would be great if the unhorsing cavalry ability is somehow can be implemented in EB2 though.
EBII Hod Carrier
Re: What more would you want to add to EBII?
That's again an issue of geographical sphere of influence. The elite infantry aren't available to anyone through Allied Governments, and only appear in specific governments for Baktria, Saka and Pahlava. Hayastan conquering central Asia is just too deep into alt-history to merit making accomodations for it.
Both.
The polis isn't a military colony, though. It's a civic agglomeration of Greeks which happens to have some military output because of the cultural tradition of athletic training.
There isn't one that is appropriate. The Jews of the Levant were very Hellenised (which itself became a source of sectarian strife later) and are mostly represented by the Hellenistic units you can recruit there. The closest thing to a "native" cavalry unit is the Iranian Mediums which are available there.
The AI can't use cavalry effectively in a siege, which is what I was getting at.
Unhorsing isn't an ability, it requires dismounted units, meaning additional unit slots.
Re: What more would you want to add to EBII?
Hello, i'd like to see a much more expanded romani, mailed archers, praetorian cavalry,... we also need Hellenic horse archers(mailed) for Anatolia or makedon.
make mailed hoplite/phalanx like koinon bg and hysterioi pezhateroi from EBI wearing mail. just overall more mail for the Hellenic fations! like we have the thorakitai wearing mail but i'd like to see hoplon beares in mail also so like classical hoplite wearing mail would be awesome as an extra unit, Cretan archers wearing mail. just add mail to the linthorax wearers for more diversity.
Re: What more would you want to add to EBII?
Here’s some suggestions:
Regarding regions, I would like to see some more regions in Coele Syria (especially Hierosolyma and Sidon or Gaza would be great) but I was told that you’re not planning on making changes to the map, which is understandable.
I’d like to see more civil war possibilities for the Seleucid/ Ptolemaic factions.
You could introduce ancillaries that can be passed by one character to another such as these two: O epi ton ano satrapeion (upper satrapies, the character will need to stay within close proximity to Ecbatana, Babylon) and O epi ton epitade tou Taurou pragmaton (Asia Minor, the character will need to stay in Sardis or cities in Asia Minor), which provides an authority bonus to the character who possesses it along with maybe a corruption decrease bonus while it makes the character who has it more disloyal and likely to rebel if the king has low authority (revolt of Molon, Achaios, Timarchos etc.).
If the character rebels you could either have them become Ptolemaic AI controlled characters (if Ptolemies are still alive and at war with Seleucids) or automatically have them occupy certain regions (if epi ton ano satrapeion, regions around Ecbatana will be automatically occupied) and if the character has the epi ton epitade tou Taurou pragmaton regions around Sardis will rebel (or only Sardis).
Also, another thing that I didn’t understand is what those Amphistamenoi and some rebel armies are supposed to represent. They provide nothing once you defeat them and they’re just an annoying pest. If there were some rebels around Syria to represent the Kyrrhestai revolt, I’d understand, but I get amphistamenoi armies around regions that have 150 public order and there are some big armies in the Alexandreia Karmaneia, Persepolis and Prophthasia region.
Maybe after defeating a rebel force the player could get a monetary payment (to represent captives sold to slavery) or recruited units in your capital or as garrisons to nearby cities (to represent recruiting captives into armies).
Also another one but not sure about this one. When/ If the Romans take control of Ambrakia, Thermon, Pella and Antigonids do not control Pella, Corinth, Athens, there could be a script for the Seleucid player called “Aitolian Delegation” asking the player to protect the rights of the Greeks/ Aitolians and go to war with Rome. If the player accepts he’s instantly transferred the region of Demetrias if owned by Rome, Koinon Hellenon or Antigonids, if the region is controlled by the Antigonids or Koinon Hellenon the Seleucid player also goes to war with them.
I had this idea that if the player plays as the Seleucids and captures Memphis, he should place the faction leader in the city and there could be a chance for him to gain a trait of “Crowned Pharaoh at Memphis”, which decreases public order of Ptolemaic holdings and gives a public order bonus to Egyptian cities captured by the faction leader. The same could be done for the Ptolemies once they capture Antiocheia on the Orontes.
Another thing that I found annoying in my Seleucid campaign was the fact that the Ptolemies would never sign a peace treaty with me, even after I had taken all of their Asia Minor, Cyprus and Coele Syria settlements and I was about to invade Egypt with big forces while they had taken all their forces in Ptolemais Theron for some reason and left much of Egypt poorly defended.
What would be nice is to have a scripted choice for a peace treaty (not sure if possible) after all Coele Syria and Asia Minor possessions have been taken by the player. If the player accepts the peace treaty, the faction leader can gain a “Victor of the 1st Syrian War” increasing his authority/ command.
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
