Free Kurdistan?

[PointOfViewGun]

Maybe it's because the AKP respects that there are other races in Turkey and that they should be allowed to have their culture and language along with the Turkish. The PKK raised (and had a huge support among Kurds) just because of the fascist-nationalist Turks that had ruled the country for most years of it's existence.
Even ANC, PLO, IRA and many other organizations were considered to be terrorists - until the governments came to their senses and started to negotiate, topped with Noble Peace Prizes for their leaders (Mandela, Arafat and Roberts..)
, maybe we see APO getting the prize in a few years

Of course it's out of the question as you Kemalist fan boys are still in power. - Even if AKP is officially in power they are practically afraid of the fascistic shadow regime behind the scenes..

Says the man that is clueless about almost anything he talks about.

PKK doesn't operate based on volunteering but on fear. Most of it's members come from young age as they're adopted and brainwashed. Their support does not lie inside Turkey but mostly in Europe. A Turkish party that would respect ethnic Kurds rights is not better than an ethnically Kurdish party. Negotiating with PKK is a disgrace to people, ethnic Kurds and ethnic Turks, that lived in the South-Eastern Turkey.

Every single post of yours shows how clueless you are about the subject. You should seriously pull yourself out of this thread.

[Platon]

Says the man that is clueless about almost anything he talks about.

PKK doesn't operate based on volunteering but on fear. Most of it's members come from young age as they're adopted and brainwashed. Their support does not lie inside Turkey but mostly in Europe. A Turkish party that would respect ethnic Kurds rights is not better than an ethnically Kurdish party. Negotiating with PKK is a disgrace to people, ethnic Kurds and ethnic Turks, that lived in the South-Eastern Turkey.

Every single post of yours shows how clueless you are about the subject. You should seriously pull yourself out of this thread.

Says the turk...

Every single post of yours have turkish nationalist propaganda written all over.. all my life I have heard from turks "there is no kurdish problem"..
And every kurd I met - EVERY single one of them - have a completely different story..

oh yeah - and your turkish bullyness don't bite here - No greek has been born yet to be affected by it

[PointOfViewGun]

Says the turk...

Every single post of yours have Turkish nationalist propaganda written all over.. all my life I have heard from Turks "there is no Kurdish problem"..
And every Kurd I met - EVERY single one of them - have a completely different story..

oh yeah - and your Turkish bullyness don't bite here - No Greek has been born yet to be affected by it

If you're trying to dominate by using what someone else used, at least make it worth while.

I believe it's obvious who is blinded by nationalism here. I think you can do better.

[Misery]

I do not understand why most of you have double standards...

If Kurdistan is given state you have to give same to following...

Georgia - SO & Abkhazia
China - Tibet & many other small regions
Serbia - Kosovo
Kosovo - parts would go back to Serbia
Bosnia - Serbian Part
GB - N. Ireland
Spain - Basque region
Ukraine, Poland - Galicia
Canada - Franch parts
India - Kashmir

We would go from 192 states to around 400 in days.

GIVE rights to all people for self determination or lock the borders as they are today and deny independence to minorities.

Before you give me crap that all situations are different, they are not... its simple majority of population has the rights to choose where they live or they do not.

If Albanians in Kosovo and Chinese in Taiwan have rights to self determination so do people in Kashmir and Tibet, same with Norther Ireland and many other places.

[dogukan]

The way PKK recruits people is also is not the way you think. I've wrriten a long one on it and I'm lazy to wirte again as it woN't matter. We are fascist Kemalists(even though two ideas contradicts)

[Acco]

Turkey has two interests in Iraq, first, to maintain the Iraqi territorial integrity and second...to fight the PKK. If Iraq descends into conflict or civil war, an independent Kurdish state will most likely be produced, which can incite Kurds beyond the border in Turkey to join the new independent country and the PKK needs to be decimated so that they will not be able to prosper while the first event is taking place. So depending on how you look at it, if Iraqi Kurdistan doesn't push for independence the Turkish could effectively accomplish their goals. However, the Kurds independence will be an unlikely occurence in my opinion, an independent Kurdistan will oppose the U.S. strategy of a "united Iraq"...for say, if the Kurds gain independence surely the other major ethnic/religious groups in Iraq will want a state for their own? In addition, Kurdistan is a land-locked state and relies on Syria, Turkey and Iran for land and air communications, all three of the said countries have a notable Kurdish minority and Kurdish independence would cause the Kurds there to wish to join the new Kurdish state, so they would most likely deny recognition and supplies. They would have to deal with a small market, and they might have to go under assistance of the United States, which could isolate them from their Syrian and Iranian neighbors. But Kurdistan not only has issues to solve involving external states, but also within itself, as the two major parties (Kurdistan Democratic Party and Patriotic Union of Kurdistan) have yet to solve the issue of power-sharing, and as the American forces are starting to recede and withdraw to pass military responsibilities to the Iraqis, the U.S. might lose interest in the area and might not have the means to provide them with aid.

I am for Kurdish independence, as I am for most autonomous regions in the world, however I doubt Kurdistan and other region's ability to run their own country, and the extreme political and economical conditions that will arrive for the young states...it reminds me of a Union (U.S. in the American Civil War) poster that depicted the United States as a tree, and the Confederates as a human holding on by the branch trying to saw themselves off, but once they do so, they will fall down to the bottom...

[PointOfViewGun]

Turkey has two interests in Iraq, first, to maintain the Iraqi territorial integrity and second...to fight the PKK. If Iraq descends into conflict or civil war, an independent Kurdish state will most likely be produced, which can incite Kurds beyond the border in Turkey to join the new independent country and the PKK needs to be decimated so that they will not be able to prosper while the first event is taking place. So depending on how you look at it, if Iraqi Kurdistan doesn't push for independence the Turkish could effectively accomplish their goals. However, the Kurds independence will be an unlikely occurrence in my opinion, an independent Kurdistan will oppose the U.S. strategy of a "united Iraq"...for say, if the Kurds gain independence surely the other major ethnic/religious groups in Iraq will want a state for their own? In addition, Kurdistan is a land-locked state and relies on Syria, Turkey and Iran for land and air communications, all three of the said countries have a notable Kurdish minority and Kurdish independence would cause the Kurds there to wish to join the new Kurdish state, so they would most likely deny recognition and supplies. They would have to deal with a small market, and they might have to go under assistance of the United States, which could isolate them from their Syrian and Iranian neighbors. But Kurdistan not only has issues to solve involving external states, but also within itself, as the two major parties (Kurdistan Democratic Party and Patriotic Union of Kurdistan) have yet to solve the issue of power-sharing, and as the American forces are starting to recede and withdraw to pass military responsibilities to the Iraqis, the U.S. might lose interest in the area and might not have the means to provide them with aid.

I am for Kurdish independence, as I am for most autonomous regions in the world, however I doubt Kurdistan and other region's ability to run their own country, and the extreme political and economical conditions that will arrive for the young states...it reminds me of a Union (U.S. in the American Civil War) poster that depicted the United States as a tree, and the Confederates as a human holding on by the branch trying to saw themselves off, but once they do so, they will fall down to the bottom...

Just wanna add some stuff to that. PKK is a some sort of communist group. For the last 10 years though, in Turkey, a lot of people think that they've lost their real cause to fight. Their actions just help to create racism in Turkey. If say the idea of Kurdistan becomes completely real in Northern Iraq, it will only lead to more problems. Turkmens that are actually the ones living in that region will be put in danger. Kurds would only rely on the oil fields they have for income and it would have to pass through Turkey, Iran or Syria. None of them will be extremely friendly. Kurdistan would clean Turkey from those couple of thousand PKK partisans though. That's the only good thing about it.

[Yosemite]

Says the turk...

Every single post of yours have turkish nationalist propaganda written all over.. all my life I have heard from turks "there is no kurdish problem"..
And every kurd I met - EVERY single one of them - have a completely different story..

oh yeah - and your turkish bullyness don't bite here - No greek has been born yet to be affected by it

Ok let's take a fact.

Someone who is not turk says it. It is not propaganda.

But when it's a turk, HURR DURR OMG PROPAGANDA.

[Platon]

Ok let's take a fact.

Someone who is not turk says it. It is not propaganda.

But when it's a turk, HURR DURR OMG PROPAGANDA.

If you had a point with your post... I didn't get it

[PointOfViewGun]

If you had a point with your post... I didn't get it

We always got a point and you almost always fail to get it.

[The Noble Lord]

I do not understand why most of you have double standards...

If Kurdistan is given state you have to give same to following...

Georgia - SO & Abkhazia
China - Tibet & many other small regions
Serbia - Kosovo
Kosovo - parts would go back to Serbia
Bosnia - Serbian Part
GB - N. Ireland
Spain - Basque region
Ukraine, Poland - Galicia
Canada - Franch parts
India - Kashmir

We would go from 192 states to around 400 in days.

GIVE rights to all people for self determination or lock the borders as they are today and deny independence to minorities.

Before you give me crap that all situations are different, they are not... its simple majority of population has the rights to choose where they live or they do not.

If Albanians in Kosovo and Chinese in Taiwan have rights to self determination so do people in Kashmir and Tibet, same with Norther Ireland and many other places.

Excellent post my friend. You are absolutely right, when it comes to these issues there should not be double standards. Because all nations and ethnic groups have equal rights and their aspirations should be looked in a same manner.

[Arto]

We always got a point and you almost always fail to get it.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Do you understand it? Good!

People let's not go into useless ''NO U'' debates, please stick to the topic.

Thank you.

[Platon]

Excellent post my friend. You are absolutely right, when it comes to these issues there should not be double standards. Because all nations and ethnic groups have equal rights and their aspirations should be looked in a same manner.

Exactly. And Kosovo sets the example I think - Now any minority, who can get the support from big foreign powers, have a case in their quest for independence. International law, as we know it, is a thing of the past...

[The Noble Lord]

That's right Platon, the so-called International law is the thing of the past and belongs to the history books. With the recognition of Kosovo every European and International law was broken, including UN Charter. So, to say now to some well you can't do this because it's against International law is a joke.

[PointOfViewGun]

Do you understand it? Good!

People let's not go into useless ''NO U'' debates, please stick to the topic.

Thank you.

I was just making a point. It's not really a "NO U" argument.

That's right Platon, the so-called International law is the thing of the past and belongs to the history books. With the recognition of Kosovo every European and International law was broken, including UN Charter. So, to say now to some well you can't do this because it's against International law is a joke.

And did anyone said that it shouldn't be formed because it's against international law?

[Starlightman]

Chart of results of general elections 2002. With green colour the prefectures that came the first Kurdish party DEHAP, which noteworthy conducted pre-election fight under very difficult conditions, in the shade of arrest [Otzalan] that became in 1999.

Copresiding, with Achmet Toyrk, the Kurdish Party of Democratic Turkey (DTP), Emine Aina, in her speech that it made in the… city [Chakiari], that is found in the borders with Iraqi Kurdistan, reported in the program of events, concentrations and speeches that will make her party in view the municipal elections, declared the following:

“With our travel and our speech here, we began a line of visits and speeches in the region. For certain days the televisions speak for a “expedition of intensity”. They mean that we with what we say we transport intensity in the society. We however we do not make nothing other, from be reported in the errors of state and government. Because we were reported in the errors that become, we transport the intensity in the society? And what it will be supposed we make that is to say? When you wrong us, when you don't recognize basic our right, when you don't even recognize our existence, when us you lead to the death, it will be supposed we remain with crossed the hands? Governmental party [AKR] with regard to Kurdish with base the following sign: “We do not stop, we continue our street”. That is to say, when these they stop, do say that will continue the war, we what it will be supposed we say, must be silent? When they continue the enterprises against the rebels, must be silent? When they stop hunger and the infelicity they say continue in the same street, do we must be silent? When they deny the existence of Kurdish population and say that they will continue the war in order to they destroy to us, will we be supposed must be silent? If what we say, that is not nothing other than the hard reality, cause intensity in the [AKR] and himself Erdogan, we we will continue the intensity”. Emine Aina, that stressed that the aim of visits and speeches in the Kurdish cities is not pre-election, continued the speech as follows: “Our last word to the Erdogan, that addressing in said us “Whoever does not love Turkey it gets injured it leaves” is this and him we address from here: We if it were we leave from here, we would leave these 25 years where lasts the callous oppression that you have practised in our population. We say to him therefore that not only we will not leave, but we win the elections and will create our own, autonomous regions. ” Afterwards her speech, that often him interrupted the crowd that shouted signs internee leader of Kurds, Ampntoyllach Otzalan, Emine Aina it was directed to the next station of her tour, the city [Gioyksekoba], where the force of Kurdish party exceeds the 85% of electoral body."

http://www.internethaber.com/news_detail.php?id=166991

translated to English....

[PointOfViewGun]

Chart of results of general elections 2002. With green colour the prefectures that came the first Kurdish party DEHAP, which noteworthy conducted pre-election fight under very difficult conditions, in the shade of arrest [Otzalan] that became in 1999.

Copresiding, with Achmet Toyrk, the Kurdish Party of Democratic Turkey (DTP), Emine Aina, in her speech that it made in the… city [Chakiari], that is found in the borders with Iraqi Kurdistan, reported in the program of events, concentrations and speeches that will make her party in view the municipal elections, declared the following:

“With our travel and our speech here, we began a line of visits and speeches in the region. For certain days the televisions speak for a “expedition of intensity”. They mean that we with what we say we transport intensity in the society. We however we do not make nothing other, from be reported in the errors of state and government. Because we were reported in the errors that become, we transport the intensity in the society? And what it will be supposed we make that is to say? When you wrong us, when you don't recognize basic our right, when you don't even recognize our existence, when us you lead to the death, it will be supposed we remain with crossed the hands? Governmental party [AKR] with regard to Kurdish with base the following sign: “We do not stop, we continue our street”. That is to say, when these they stop, do say that will continue the war, we what it will be supposed we say, must be silent? When they continue the enterprises against the rebels, must be silent? When they stop hunger and the infelicity they say continue in the same street, do we must be silent? When they deny the existence of Kurdish population and say that they will continue the war in order to they destroy to us, will we be supposed must be silent? If what we say, that is not nothing other than the hard reality, cause intensity in the [AKR] and himself Erdogan, we we will continue the intensity”. Emine Aina, that stressed that the aim of visits and speeches in the Kurdish cities is not pre-election, continued the speech as follows: “Our last word to the Erdogan, that addressing in said us “Whoever does not love Turkey it gets injured it leaves” is this and him we address from here: We if it were we leave from here, we would leave these 25 years where lasts the callous oppression that you have practised in our population. We say to him therefore that not only we will not leave, but we win the elections and will create our own, autonomous regions. ” Afterwards her speech, that often him interrupted the crowd that shouted signs internee leader of Kurds, Ampntoyllach Otzalan, Emine Aina it was directed to the next station of her tour, the city [Gioyksekoba], where the force of Kurdish party exceeds the 85% of electoral body."

http://www.internethaber.com/news_detail.php?id=166991

translated to English....

You might wanna check 2007 election results. A lot of changed in 8 years. You'll see the difference.

[Crimson Scythe]

You might wanna check 2007 election results. A lot of changed in 8 years. You'll see the difference.

Thought I might help you out.

Independents are the DTP members (with some exceptions), for those who aren't familiar with the specifics of the 2007 election. Note that they lost quite a few regions to AKP, with the exception of Sirnak and the regions closest to the Iraqi border (where sympathy for the PKK is traditionally highest). And ALSO note that the only reason why these seats were won at all was because the 10% barrier was circumvented by DTP members running as independents. I think they actually the fewest votes in their (HADEP/DEHAP/DTP) collective history during this election.

[Jannisary26]

We do not allow to create a Kurdistan on Turkey.

[Babur]

We do not allow to create a Kurdistan on Turkey.

lol why are you reviving dead threads in the name of nationalism?