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Thread: Are gay people mentally deficient?

  1. #161
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    Default Re: Are gay people mentally deficient?

    Except that there is the right to freedom of expression, which I am sure covers kissing in front of people.
    Under the patronage of Rhah and brother of eventhorizen.

  2. #162
    Ummon's Avatar Indefinitely Banned
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    Default Re: Are gay people mentally deficient?

    I would say, that of course, you can express yourself meaningfully however you want, yet you see, right doesn't imply necessity.

    And obviously, the meaning of a kiss is intended for one person only. Not occasional audiences.

  3. #163
    Tom Paine's Avatar Mr Common Sense
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    Default Re: Are gay people mentally deficient?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ummon View Post
    If I go to a muslim country, or house, regardless from my like or dislike, I don't go alongside a woman wearing tight, or transparent dresses. If a muslim comes in my house or country, I expect him to follow its rules as well. Whenever I know someone doesn't like a certain behaviour, I try to avoid it.

    Kissing before people who may not be pleased, is infact disrespectful, whether it is done by homo, or eterosexual people.
    In that case I ask you to cease all disrespectful behaviour. This would include saying things which people might find disrespectful on a forum. Hey presto, you won't do it, right? There are degrees of disrespect; my kissing a man has no actual effect on anyone other than the man. I won't do it in a religious institution, under normal circumstances, or in a house of someone who would not like it (unless drunk). But in the street or other public throughfare?

  4. #164
    Ummon's Avatar Indefinitely Banned
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    Default Re: Are gay people mentally deficient?

    There are superceeding elements. You may find though that:

    1) I always respect form.
    2) I have only one field of discussion which is found disrespectful by a certain group, yet again, the fact that promoting truth is more important than not hurting the feelings of people, I find enough to keep the present behaviour.

    What exactly is the higher purpose of imposing one's sexuality on others? Both in the open, or close of a house.
    Last edited by Ummon; March 08, 2007 at 12:00 PM.

  5. #165
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    Default Re: Are gay people mentally deficient?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ummon View Post
    I would say, that of course, you can express yourself meaningfully however you want, yet you see, right doesn't imply necessity.
    I am not saying that it does, and I am not saying its necessary either, just pointing out that its legal, whether people agree with it or not.

    And obviously, the meaning of a kiss is intended for one person only. Not occasional audiences.
    Not always, often its the opposite in the case of young females who have had to much to drink.
    Under the patronage of Rhah and brother of eventhorizen.

  6. #166
    Ummon's Avatar Indefinitely Banned
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    Default Re: Are gay people mentally deficient?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaun View Post
    I am not saying that it does, and I am not saying its necessary either, just pointing out that its legal, whether people agree with it or not.

    Not always, often its the opposite in the case of young females who have had to much to drink.
    That is the subjective element: the problem is that in that case, they are justified in showing such prevalence of subjectivity, as they are drunk.

  7. #167
    Tom Paine's Avatar Mr Common Sense
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    Default Re: Are gay people mentally deficient?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ummon View Post
    There are superceeding elements. You may find though that:

    1) I always respect form.
    2) I have only one field of discussion which is found disrespectful by a certain group, yet again, the fact that promoting truth is more important than not hurting the feelings of people, I find enough to keep the present behaviour.
    In the first instance, I would argue that this was untrue; in the second, it appears that respect is now only relevant when it stops people doing things you don't want them to do; respect is highly subjective it appears.

    What exactly is the higher purpose of imposing one's sexuality on others? Both in the open, or close of a house.
    "Imposting one's sexuality on others" would be rape. Its not imposition to do something that has no effect on others.

  8. #168
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    Default Re: Are gay people mentally deficient?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
    In the first instance, I would argue that this was untrue; in the second, it appears that respect is now only relevant when it stops people doing things you don't want them to do; respect is highly subjective it appears.
    You will then obviously point us to the specific instances. The purpose of respect besides, you will notice, is exactly stopping to do in public, what others don't want them to do in public.

    An argumentum ad hominem besides, in any case, go on.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
    "Imposing one's sexuality on others" would be rape. Its not imposition to do something that has no effect on others.
    Quite the opposite. Imposing knowledge of something which I might dislike on me, is imposing.

  9. #169
    Tom Paine's Avatar Mr Common Sense
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    Default Re: Are gay people mentally deficient?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ummon View Post
    You will then obviously point us to the specific instances. The purpose of respect besides, you will notice, is exactly stopping to do in public, what others don't want them to do in public.

    An argumentum ad hominem besides, in any case, go on.
    Except that in this instance it is an accurate assessment; you seem to be saying its alright to be disrespectful (which you acknowledge you do) when its in pursuit of truth, something you determine arbitrarily.

    Quite the opposite. Imposing knowledge of something which I might dislike on me, is imposing.
    In that case none can ever do anything, simply because it may offend another by imposing knowledge on them; we should not teach evolution because it imposes the knowledge that we teach it on creationists.

  10. #170
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    Default Re: Are gay people mentally deficient?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
    Except that in this instance it is an accurate assessment; you seem to be saying its alright to be disrespectful (which you acknowledge you do) when its in pursuit of truth, something you determine arbitrarily.
    Exactly, sometimes, disrespect is the least of evils. I determine arbitrarily my goals because I am a free-thinking individual. You will notice that I have asked you what is the higher goal of kissing in public.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
    In that case none can ever do anything, simply because it may offend another by imposing knowledge on them; we should not teach evolution because it imposes the knowledge that we teach it on creationists.
    Contesting a scientific or philosophical outlook is made in the name of science and truth, hence it has a higher goal.

  11. #171
    Tom Paine's Avatar Mr Common Sense
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    Default Re: Are gay people mentally deficient?

    A higher goal determined by a valueladen system; were I a nihilist, I'd say you were being arbitrary again. Actually, I still will; why is philosophy a higher goal than pursuit of love?

  12. #172
    Ummon's Avatar Indefinitely Banned
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    Default Re: Are gay people mentally deficient?

    Because (romantic) love causes advantage to less people than knowledge.

  13. #173
    Tom Paine's Avatar Mr Common Sense
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    Default Re: Are gay people mentally deficient?

    Define advantage? Does not romantic love provide benefit for the people, then for the people they know due to the happiness of the original pair, and so on? Whereas knowledge of the minutiae of quantum physics, or the cause of the beginning of the universe... how is that of actual benefit?

  14. #174
    Ummon's Avatar Indefinitely Banned
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    Default Re: Are gay people mentally deficient?

    No chain-definitioning, please. :wink:

    Romantic love gives advantages to 2 people. To be generous, let's say all their friends have an advantage as well, and state that 400 people receive an advantage.

    A single advancement in knowledge, benefits all humanity.

  15. #175
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    Default Re: Are gay people mentally deficient?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
    Well, here I am assuming its consensual rather than anything nonconsensual; that's not looking at homosexuality at that point. Furthermore almost all homosexuals would not kiss a person who did not want to kiss them (I won't deny there are some homosexual rapists. Then again, there are heterosexual ones too)
    Understood, Ozy ...

  16. #176
    Tom Paine's Avatar Mr Common Sense
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    Default Re: Are gay people mentally deficient?

    How so? I repeat with the examples of say, quantum physics. Or the causation of the origin of the universe. How do those benefit all humanity? Because it is enriched? But is happiness not enriching it also?

  17. #177
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    Default Re: Are gay people mentally deficient?

    Because then intruments become available. Obviously, how someone uses tools is up to him.

  18. #178
    Tom Paine's Avatar Mr Common Sense
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    Default Re: Are gay people mentally deficient?

    And what instruments become available from knowing how the universe's cause was caused? What instrument of benefit to mankind do we get when we understand quantum physics?

  19. #179
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    Default Re: Are gay people mentally deficient?

    Quantum physics has given you lasers (for therapy, distance-measuring, etc.), photovoltaic panels (clean energy) etc.

    Knowing the origins of the universe, besides being fun, gives you an idea of why and how you are here, which is beneficial.

  20. #180
    Tom Paine's Avatar Mr Common Sense
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    Default Re: Are gay people mentally deficient?

    But we do not need to know the origins of the universe to theorise why we are here, and knowing the origins would not help us answer it any more clearly; and lasers predate quantum physics, I believe.

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