View Poll Results: Whom do you support and to what extent?

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  • I support Ukraine fully.

    103 69.59%
  • I support Russia fully.

    15 10.14%
  • I only support Russia's claim over Crimea.

    4 2.70%
  • I only support Russia's claim over Crimea and Donbass (Luhansk and Donetsk regions).

    11 7.43%
  • Not sure.

    7 4.73%
  • I don't care.

    8 5.41%

Thread: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

  1. #6441
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    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyriakos View Post
    That is rather too qualified a condition, to take some tangent of the conflict, as the entire conflict (= Ukraine didn't invade Russia, so Ukraine has nothing to do with Russia invading Ukraine). This type of tangent-to-function view leads to all sorts of fun stuff, to mention a flamboyant one: Japan didn't nuke US, so if Japan nukes US in the future it's solely due to US in the past.

    => it's always a problem to treat tangents as the entire thing
    You're right, apart from that utterly unhinged and irrelevant bit about Japan nuking the US. Seriously wut?

    The problem is Russia is invading a lot of its neighboring states and this seems tied to rhetoric around reclaiming former Soviet territories which, taken to its illogical conclusion, would bring them to Berlin and Vienna.

    A solution to this problem would be eroding Russia's army to an unfit state, which Putin is engaged in. We should not interrupt him by forcing Ukraine to surrender, that would be mistaking a tangent for the whole.
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  2. #6442
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    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    Quote Originally Posted by Sar1n View Post

    Edit: Funny that in your "being here all the time", you failed to notice that Czechoslovakia ceased to exist almost 30 years ago.
    I was born and lived in "Czechoslovakia" until my early adulthood (yes I am old), so still even at present use "Czechoslovakia", when asked where I was from (due to my Czechoslovak accent still asked this a lot even today).
    Throws some people off but most know the country and would then follow up with "Czech" or "Slovak"?...
    You are most likely young so probably were born after Czechoslovakia ceased to exist hence why you said "as Czech" which is fair enough.
    By the way my friends from Slovakia are not happy w the current situation, saying they are now flooded w Ukrainian refugees that get more governmental financial support (around double) the Slovak pension, and the (Ukrainians) go to the shopping malls to buy goods and then refuse to pay for them et cetera...I guess Czechia is somewhat shielded from the influx of Ukrainian refugees as it doesn't border Ukraine, unlike Slovakia...But now I digress...

    Quote Originally Posted by Sar1n
    The amount of aid to Ukrainians that we mobilized is unprecedented in our history both in speed and amount. Beside the government aid that in terms of GDP percentage exceeds USA
    Ye sure the Czech and Slovak gov's love Ukraine. The gov also loved/pushed the split between Czechia and Slovakia... the regular folk not so much. When I say "we" hate the Ukrainians just as much as the Russians I speak of regular folk, not corrupt gov officials only looking to line their pockets or looking to get re-elected...
    Besides a lot of the gov officials in office in both Czechia and Slovakia today were still in their nappies/ or unborn prior to the 90's so haven't experienced any of that s*hit first hand and are so 'woke' they have no idea of reality; this by the way generally applies to most western politicians these days -not just having a dig at Czechia/Slovakia here.



    https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/20/w...t-ukraine.html

    Seems like NY Times confirmed the authenticity of videos of Ukrainian soldiers appearing to execute Russian POWs.

    “It looks like most of them were shot in the head,” Dr. Rohini Haar, a forensic expert and faculty member at the University of California at Berkeley’s School of Public Health, said in an interview. “There are pools of blood. That indicates that they were just left there dead. There appears to have been no effort to pick them up or help them.”

    Dr. Haar noted that when they surrendered, the Russian soldiers had been lying down, apparently unarmed, with their arms outstretched or behind their heads. “They’re considered hors de combat, or noncombatants — effectively prisoners of war,” Dr. Haar said..."



    But what's more interesting other than (the Ukrainian regime is the "same s*hit different smell" as the Russian regime), is it seems like the MSM is starting to change their views about Zelinskyy; especially after the lies, he told when Ukrainian missile hit Poland trying to pin it on Russia and now this...
    I doubt such an article as this (by NY Times) would have been allowed to be published in Feb/March of this year. Good to finally see some neutral reporting and hopefully an investigation to follow.
    Last edited by Stario; November 22, 2022 at 11:26 PM.

  3. #6443
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    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    You're right, apart from that utterly unhinged and irrelevant bit about Japan nuking the US. Seriously wut?

    The problem is Russia is invading a lot of its neighboring states and this seems tied to rhetoric around reclaiming former Soviet territories which, taken to its illogical conclusion, would bring them to Berlin and Vienna.

    A solution to this problem would be eroding Russia's army to an unfit state, which Putin is engaged in. We should not interrupt him by forcing Ukraine to surrender, that would be mistaking a tangent for the whole.
    No, it is actually (imo anyway, but I express myself, obviously) very relevant, to note that patterns don't stop existing when you simply speak of something more general. A tangent remains just that, and if you focus on a tangent and expect everyone else to pretend it's not a tangent but in tautology with the full event, conflict inevitably appears.
    Imagine if a student insisted that we shouldn't view derivatives as different from their original: the student would just get a zero in the calculus test. In life outside of something axiomatically set, it's far easier to go on insisting that everything is of the same order.
    Λέων μεν ὄνυξι κρατεῖ, κέρασι δε βούς, ἄνθρωπος δε νῷι
    "While the lion prevails with its claws, and the ox through its horns, man does by his thinking"
    Anaxagoras of Klazomenae, 5th century BC










  4. #6444

    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    Quote Originally Posted by Stario View Post
    But what's more interesting other than (the Ukrainian regime is the "same s*hit different smell" as the Russian regime), is it seems like the MSM is starting to change their views about Zelinskyy; especially after the lies, he told when Ukrainian missile hit Poland trying to pin it on Russia and now this...
    I doubt such an article as this (by NY Times) would have been allowed to be published in Feb/March of this year. Good to finally see some neutral reporting and hopefully an investigation to follow.
    Ignoring video evidence of Russian soldiers gunning down unarmed Ukrainian civilians and then banking on vague footage to cry about dead Russian soldiers quite sums up some people's approach to this conflict.
    The Armenian Issue

  5. #6445

    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    Quote Originally Posted by Muizer View Post
    We will know more if/when the time comes to weigh peace for Ukraine against further weakening Russia.
    Further weakening of Russia and peace for Ukraine, as well as every other nation within Russia's reach, are the same thing at this point. If Russia comes out of this conflict still maintaining the capacity to invade it's neighbors, or ever regains that capacity, then the question is when rather than if it will launch another invasion.

  6. #6446
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    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    Quote Originally Posted by Stario View Post
    https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/20/w...t-ukraine.html

    Seems like NY Times confirmed the authenticity of videos of Ukrainian soldiers appearing to execute Russian POWs.

    “It looks like most of them were shot in the head,” Dr. Rohini Haar, a forensic expert and faculty member at the University of California at Berkeley’s School of Public Health, said in an interview. “There are pools of blood. That indicates that they were just left there dead. There appears to have been no effort to pick them up or help them.”

    Dr. Haar noted that when they surrendered, the Russian soldiers had been lying down, apparently unarmed, with their arms outstretched or behind their heads. “They’re considered hors de combat, or noncombatants — effectively prisoners of war,” Dr. Haar said..."



    But what's more interesting other than (the Ukrainian regime is the "same s*hit different smell" as the Russian regime), is it seems like the MSM is starting to change their views about Zelinskyy; especially after the lies, he told when Ukrainian missile hit Poland trying to pin it on Russia and now this...
    I doubt such an article as this (by NY Times) would have been allowed to be published in Feb/March of this year. Good to finally see some neutral reporting and hopefully an investigation to follow.

    About the nonsense in the NY Times, it was Perfidy, a warcrime commited by the Russians(!).
    The video even shows Russian Soldier #11 stepping out of the building and immediately opening fire on the Ukrainians.
    In depth analysis of events in Makiivka that led to the death of 10 russian soldiers

  7. #6447
    Muizer's Avatar member 3519
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    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    Quote Originally Posted by Coughdrop addict View Post
    Further weakening of Russia and peace for Ukraine, as well as every other nation within Russia's reach, are the same thing at this point. If Russia comes out of this conflict still maintaining the capacity to invade it's neighbors, or ever regains that capacity, then the question is when rather than if it will launch another invasion.
    A view as abounding and righteous anger as it is devoid of reason. Short of nuclear armageddon that will kill us all, it is a given that Russia will remain as a nation that is potentially capable of doing what it is doing now.
    "Lay these words to heart, Lucilius, that you may scorn the pleasure which comes from the applause of the majority. Many men praise you; but have you any reason for being pleased with yourself, if you are a person whom the many can understand?" - Lucius Annaeus Seneca -

  8. #6448

    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    Quote Originally Posted by Stario View Post
    I was born and lived in "Czechoslovakia" until my early adulthood (yes I am old), so still even at present use "Czechoslovakia", when asked where I was from (due to my Czechoslovak accent still asked this a lot even today).
    Throws some people off but most know the country and would then follow up with "Czech" or "Slovak"?...
    You are most likely young so probably were born after Czechoslovakia ceased to exist hence why you said "as Czech" which is fair enough.
    By the way my friends from Slovakia are not happy w the current situation, saying they are now flooded w Ukrainian refugees that get more governmental financial support (around double) the Slovak pension, and the (Ukrainians) go to the shopping malls to buy goods and then refuse to pay for them et cetera...I guess Czechia is somewhat shielded from the influx of Ukrainian refugees as it doesn't border Ukraine, unlike Slovakia...But now I digress...


    Ye sure the Czech and Slovak gov's love Ukraine. The gov also loved/pushed the split between Czechia and Slovakia... the regular folk not so much. When I say "we" hate the Ukrainians just as much as the Russians I speak of regular folk, not corrupt gov officials only looking to line their pockets or looking to get re-elected...
    Besides a lot of the gov officials in office in both Czechia and Slovakia today were still in their nappies/ or unborn prior to the 90's so haven't experienced any of that s*hit first hand and are so 'woke' they have no idea of reality; this by the way generally applies to most western politicians these days -not just having a dig at Czechia/Slovakia here.
    At this point, you've succeeded in erasing all the benefit of doubt and convinced me that you're utterly full of crap.

    You totally ignored the fact that I focused on private, non-governmental aid, the extent of which clearly shows what we really think of Ukrainians, regardless of your little third-hand anecdotes. We have many Ukrainians here, too. According to official statistics, over 500k Ukrainians-that's about 5% of Czech population-requested temporary refugee visas. Of course there are some rotten apples in there, but they're few, and incidents like you mentioned are extremely rare.

    And of course, you're totally out of touch when it comes to political reality. Throughout our parliament and government, the average ages are around 50, and we seem to be having difficulties finding a viable presidential candidate who wouldn't have extensive history with the Communist Party. Old and decrepit is our problem, not young and woke. Again, all these are verifiable facts, unlike your anecdotes.

  9. #6449
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    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    Quote Originally Posted by Coughdrop addict View Post
    Further weakening of Russia and peace for Ukraine, as well as every other nation within Russia's reach, are the same thing at this point. If Russia comes out of this conflict still maintaining the capacity to invade it's neighbors, or ever regains that capacity, then the question is when rather than if it will launch another invasion.
    It's rather likely that a very weakened Russia, controlling the largest territory of any country in the world, will lead to more war instead of less war. Or, I suppose, use of nukes there (magically) is expected again, incongruously with how now (also magically) it's not expected.
    Λέων μεν ὄνυξι κρατεῖ, κέρασι δε βούς, ἄνθρωπος δε νῷι
    "While the lion prevails with its claws, and the ox through its horns, man does by his thinking"
    Anaxagoras of Klazomenae, 5th century BC










  10. #6450
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    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    Our favourite discussion panel, hosted by Solovyov on Rassija 1, suggested to draw attention to Kazakhstan. There are apparently Nazi elements there. And oil.

    https://twitter.com/TpyxaNews/status...98856458706944

    Ludi and others. Start researching the topic, we need you ready with new apologisms for Russian imperialism.

  11. #6451
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    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyriakos View Post
    It's rather likely that a very weakened Russia, controlling the largest territory of any country in the world, will lead to more war instead of less war.
    How?

    In other news, the EU parliament finally did something based and recognised Russia as a state sponsor of terrorism. Russia, in an effort to prove that it is indeed the case, continues to bomb critical civilian infrastructure in Ukraine, in an effort to terrorize the population and cause as much suffering and death as possible to civilians.

  12. #6452
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    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    Quote Originally Posted by nhytgbvfeco2 View Post
    In other news, the EU parliament finally did something based and recognised Russia as a state sponsor of terrorism.
    Largely symbolic,the EU does not have a legal framework in place to back it up, something that is not currently possible.And this measure would still have to be approved by the parliaments of the EU countries- and, as a foreign policy tool, any change to the list would require the unanimity of all 27 EU countries. Not going to happen.Your country, Israel, labeled Russia as a state sponsor of terrorism?I'm asking because the US has so far refused to list Russia as a state sponsor of terrorism.
    ---
    Regarding the previous question ( see my previous post) can the electrical power system used by civilians (in Ukraine) be a lawful "military objective"? decide for yourself. Read the exhaustive western legal analysis Is attacking the electricity infrastructure used by civilians..?
    ---
    When I am told that I shouldn't mention the past, what happened in history a few decades ago, because "everything has changed”, I would like to remind you that even today there are many people who continue to justify the use of the atom bombs on Japan as A Moral Necessity
    ---
    Anton Gerashchenko, Advisor to the Minister of Internal Affairs of Ukraine on Twitter
    Russia is getting ready for 2nd wave of mobilization in January. The plan is to draft 500,000-700,000. The 300,000 drafted before - already killed/wounded/demoralized.

    Judging from the comments on Twitter,
    the infantilization of the audience sometimes works well for propaganda purpose.
    --
    The religious/political divide, Ukraine's security service raids Russian-backed monastery in Kyiv

    The Ukrainian Orthodox church formally split from under Moscow’s leadership three years ago, with Russia losing multiple Ukrainian parishes, but many historic churches and monasteries have remained loyal in religious practice and political allegiance to Russia. A 2020 survey by the Kyiv-based Razumkov Centre found that 34% of Ukrainians identified as members of the main Orthodox church of Ukraine, while 14% were members of Ukraine’s Moscow patriarchate church.
    --
    Orban seems to want a slice of Ukrainian territory, although he denies it: "The Hungarian national team belongs to all Hungarians, wherever they live!” (looks at "Great Hungary" Orban's scarf). And angers Romania, too.



    Ukraine has always been coveted by all neighboring countries, including Hungary, Poland, and Romania. Read below the 1918 article from the N.Y.Times. The UNR (Ukrainian National Republic) was a country that existed between 1917 and 1920.
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 






    Since 2005, Lieven has been a Senior Researcher (Bernard L. Schwartz fellow and American Strategy Program fellow) at the New American Foundation, where he focuses on US global strategy and the War on Terrorism. Though the author does not mention Donbas, he provides an excellent analysis Russia's War in Ukraine Is Like World War I, Not World War II
    Excerpts,
    The West is using the wrong analogy for Russia’s invasion—and worsening the outcome.
    It often seems as if the hawkish elements of the U.S. establishment have only ever heard of one war: World War II in Europe. This is because whatever else they forget or get wrong about that war, they are right that it was planned and initiated by a deeply evil and megalomaniac force which posed a threat to the entire world, which had to be completely defeated, and with which no morally acceptable compromise was possible.

    The perennial and exclusive references to that war allow U.S. hawks to portray every conflict in which they wish to involve America as an existential struggle against evil, which if not engaged in will lead to catastrophic consequences for America and the world. This has been true of their approach to Vietnam through Iraq to the present war in Ukraine, with disastrous results for America and the world.
    This, however, is precisely what makes World War II so exceptional. The great majority of wars in modern history and indeed in American history have been far more morally complex in their origins and have ended not with the complete victory of one side but with some form of messy compromise. Most wars (and this includes World War II) also illustrate the law of unintended consequences. The end results are very often not those predicted or desired even by the ostensible “victors.”
    From this point of view, World War I is a far better historical analogy than World War II for the present war in Ukraine.

    …In World War II, aspects of German policy were uniquely evil, in line with the uniquely evil racist ideology set out in Adolf Hitler’s Mein Kampf. In World War I, things seem far less clear cut. The allied propaganda line of the war being a war of democracies against autocracies was rendered ludicrous by the fact that until it collapsed in 1917, the Russian Empire was a key ally against Germany. Nor of course were the British and French colonial empires democratic.

    Today we can all agree that principal responsibility for the war in Ukraine lies with the Russian government, which invaded Ukraine. But will historians of the future attribute sole responsibility to Russia, and exonerate the U.S. and NATO member governments of all blame for trying to integrate Ukraine with the West, and thus threatening what both Russians and a long row of Western experts (including the present head of the CIA, William Burns) warned were seen in Moscow as vital Russian interests?

    …The Russian high command has at the very least displayed indifference towards civilian casualties in its air campaign against Ukraine. However, we should be very careful not to portray these crimes as in some way culturally special to Russians, or as “genocide,” if only for the very obvious reason that Western forces have themselves repeatedly carried out similar actions. To use the “genocide” label in this way would put American and British commanders and air crews in World War II, Korea, Vietnam, and Syria on the same level as Hitler’s SS.

    Under the laws of war, it is not a crime for Ukrainian forces to establish positions in populated areas, otherwise they could not defend their country at all. But nor is it a crime for Russian forces to bombard those positions. All of this is stated quite clearly in international treaties and conventions on the laws of war.

    Above all, we should not let justified moral outrage become hypocritical moral hysteria—as during World War I—because this can very easily become an obstacle to seeking a peace settlement that may be in the best interests of ourselves and the victims of the war.
    The same goes for negotiations over territory. If today it seems lunatic almost beyond belief that millions of German, French, and British soldiers should have died in a war that began over whether Austrians or Serbs should rule Sarajevo, let us consider the contemporary example of Sevastopol, the Russian naval base in Crimea. The present line of the U.S. administration and most of the U.S. establishment is that negotiations for peace are purely a matter for the Ukrainian government. And the Ukrainian government has repeatedly declared that its aim is to drive Russia from all the territory it has occupied in Ukraine, including Crimea.

    Thirty years ago, the overwhelming majority of Americans would have simply assumed that Crimea was part of Russia, as indeed it was until the Soviet government transferred it by decree to Ukraine in 1954. Before the Russian conquest of 1783, the peninsula was ruled by Tatars, before that by Byzantines, before that by Scythians, and before that, well, whoever it was, it was certainly not Ukrainians.

    Every officially connected Russian with whom I have spoken, and most ordinary Russians, have said that to defend Crimea, Russia should in the last resort use nuclear weapons, as the United States would to defend Hawaii and Pearl Harbor. This would very likely begin a ladder of escalation that would lead to the destruction of America, Russia, and civilization itself in a nuclear war.

    We should not need to wait a century for historians (if there are any) to tell us that this is not an outcome that would serve the interests of any country, including Ukraine, and that the risks involved colossally outweigh any conceivable benefits to the United States.

    …aim at total victory for Ukraine, looks like unwarranted hubris on the part of Washington. And we should also not need historians of the future, or the lessons of the World War I, to tell us that hubris invariably leads to nemesis.
    --

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithradates View Post
    The video even shows Russian Soldier #11 stepping out of the building and immediately opening fire on the Ukrainians.
    I don't normally talk about these kinds of war crimes, because there is always an excuse to justify them, no matter how implausible.When the war is over, we will know (or not), but what we will hear will be the truth from the victor, be it Russian or Ukrainian.
    Last edited by Ludicus; November 23, 2022 at 10:23 AM.
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  13. #6453
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    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    Ignoring video evidence of Russian soldiers gunning down unarmed Ukrainian civilians and then banking on vague footage to cry about dead Russian soldiers quite sums up some people's approach to this conflict.
    Here I thought I couldn't have been more clearer when I said both the Zelenskyy and Putin regimes = "same s*hit different smell."

  14. #6454
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    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    Quote Originally Posted by Ludicus View Post
    Your country, Israel, labeled Russia as a state sponsor of terrorism?
    Unfortunately no. I wish that it would, but I doubt it would happen, especially under Netanyahu. He's way too cowardly to take a stance on anything.
    Regarding the previous question ( see my previous post) can the electrical power system used by civilians (in Ukraine) be a lawful "military objective"? decide for yourself. Read the exhaustive western legal analysis Is attacking the electricity infrastructure used by civilians..?
    Are you trying to justify the destruction of civilian infrastructure with the intent of causing millions of civilians to freeze to death or flee to a different country? Wow. You've fallen far.

    Orban seems to want a slice of Ukrainian territory, although he denies it: "The Hungarian national team belongs to all Hungarians, wherever they live!” (looks at "Great Hungary" Orban's scarf). And angers Romania, too.



    Ukraine has always been coveted by all neighboring countries, including Hungary, Poland, and Romania. Read below the 1918 article from the N.Y.Times. The UNR (Ukrainian National Republic) was a country that existed between 1917 and 1920.
    I'd like to test your historical knowledge for a second here: Can you think of any other instance within the last century when a fascist/nazi state attempted to get Hungary on their side by promising them territory from neighbouring state? The same exact piece of land, in fact. Any such case spring to mind?

  15. #6455

    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    Quote Originally Posted by reavertm View Post
    Our favourite discussion panel, hosted by Solovyov on Rassija 1, suggested to draw attention to Kazakhstan. There are apparently Nazi elements there. And oil.
    Maybe first they finish their Special Military Operation in Ukraine? otherwise:

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



  16. #6456

    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    Quote Originally Posted by Stario View Post
    Here I thought I couldn't have been more clearer when I said both the Zelenskyy and Putin regimes = "same s*hit different smell."
    That doesn't address the glaring hypocrisy in your arguments here.
    The Armenian Issue

  17. #6457
    antaeus's Avatar Cool and normal
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    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    That doesn't address the glaring hypocrisy in your arguments here.
    It is a position that doesn't address the following:

    1. The legality of the Russian invasion - does not depend on how nice the Ukrainian Government is.
    Even bad regimes benefit from international law, unless the UN agrees on action.

    2. Defining whether war crimes committed are that of passion in the moment vs those that are systemic as a matter of policy.
    The former are going to happen sooner or later in a conflict and should be dealt with via criminal proceedings within a military or national setting and targeted at individuals involved. The latter should be dealt with via international institutions and target both individuals and leaders.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB MARENOSTRUM

  18. #6458
    Mithradates's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    Quote Originally Posted by Ludicus View Post
    Orban seems to want a slice of Ukrainian territory, although he denies it: "The Hungarian national team belongs to all Hungarians, wherever they live!” (looks at "Great Hungary" Orban's scarf).
    Hungarians living in the territories formerly belonging to Hungary have the right to vote in the Hungarian parliamentary elections, and they are overwhelmingly Fidesz voters. When Orban uses symbols of Great Hungary, he is sending them the message that they are not forgotten and he expects them to vote for him again. Really, nothing to see here.

    Orban seems to want a slice of Ukrainian territory...
    You are obviously not okay with this, cool.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ludicus View Post
    Thirty years ago, the overwhelming majority of Americans would have simply assumed that Crimea was part of Russia, as indeed it was until the Soviet government transferred it by decree to Ukraine in 1954. Before the Russian conquest of 1783, the peninsula was ruled by Tatars, before that by Byzantines, before that by Scythians, and before that, well, whoever it was, it was certainly not Ukrainians.
    Right. Did You know that Transcarpathia was part of Hungary for like... more than a thousand years?

    It doesnt matter that Crimea belonged to Russia back then. Now, it belongs to Ukraine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ludicus View Post
    I don't normally talk about these kinds of war crimes, because there is always an excuse to justify them, no matter how implausible.When the war is over, we will know (or not), but what we will hear will be the truth from the victor, be it Russian or Ukrainian.
    Nope, no need for testimonies or declassified documents, everything is on camera. It is a fact that the Russians committed a war crime by faking a surrender to ambush the Ukrainians.

  19. #6459
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    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    Since Putin's serfdom has now been declared a terrorist state, can we arrest all pro-Kremlin protestors and members of pro-Kremlin parties such as LRU as terrorists?

    Also the soldiers. After all, terrorists in terrorism attacks are not accorded the privileges of enemy soldiers. They cant be POWs and there are no rights whatsoever.

  20. #6460
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    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyriakos View Post
    No, it is actually (imo anyway, but I express myself, obviously) very relevant, to note that patterns don't stop existing when you simply speak of something more general. A tangent remains just that, and if you focus on a tangent and expect everyone else to pretend it's not a tangent but in tautology with the full event, conflict inevitably appears.
    Imagine if a student insisted that we shouldn't view derivatives as different from their original: the student would just get a zero in the calculus test. In life outside of something axiomatically set, it's far easier to go on insisting that everything is of the same order.
    So we agree, Russia's invasion of Ukraine is part of a pattern of military adventurism by Putin, rather than a specific instance addressing specific conditions that will end if they are resolved.
    Jatte lambastes Calico Rat

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