Battle of Blackfire Pass trailer analysis and discussion

**LinusLinothorax** · August 05, 2015, 05:00 AM

Originally Posted by GatoVolador

He never actually said that.

He said we will see it in the walkthrough. Half of the preview-animation is missing in the walkthrough=Animation is different and much more simple. That means that the previewed animation isnt in the final game.
Conclusion: The employer dont said the truth.

**Aanker** · August 05, 2015, 06:52 AM

Why would they go to the lengths of making that custom animation and then not include it in the final game...

**DavidtheDuke** · August 05, 2015, 08:53 AM

Originally Posted by Aanker

Why would they go to the lengths of making that custom animation and then not include it in the final game...

It doesn't matter!!! The employee lied! The particles is now better than before, BUT the animation was different! This proves that CA is inaccurate in their marketing, tee total PROOF!! God, sometimes I wish I was an admin so I could block people who clog up good threads like this with inanity.

**BalrogOfMorgoth** · August 05, 2015, 09:26 AM

The Blackfire gameplay video was made around may, as people saw it at E3

The custom animation for the light priest we saw during the july video was made after, that's why it's not in the blackfire gameplay. They were talking avout the Luminark animation, not the wizard's one, that was made after

**englisharcher89** · August 05, 2015, 10:38 AM

Originally Posted by frenchyvinnie

Ah. Battle pacing has been an ongoing debate for years now. At this point, I think it just boils down to personal preference. Some people like fast-paced battles with blood and slaughter everywhere in a matter of minutes. Other people prefer slower engagements, which allow the player to enjoy the battle and make elaborate strategies.
So far, I think the two extremes were Shogun 2 and Rome 2's DeI mod.

I think Shogun 2 was way too fast paced. Units got obliterated in minutes. You rarely had the time to flank, counter charge or make a slightly elaborate tactic.
And I think DeI was too slow. Two heavy infantry units fighting on a city wall, or bottled in a street could fight each other for more than 30 minutes in that mod.

I guess the ideal game would be somewhere in the middle. IMO, vanilla Med2TW had the best battle pacing so far. I never felt bored in a battle in that game, but I could also use my cavalry to flank or chase skirmishers and use other tactics against the AI.
I haven't played Attila yet, though.

Agreed just got angry and removed both games from my HDD lol

Shogun 2 and Attila are equally the same, fast paced... units are dying too fast for my taste. I much prefer a bit slower battles, using more tactics. Hope they will avoid that this time... and I absolutely hate when is mass charging with everything they have.

**Majorbookworm** · August 06, 2015, 11:42 PM

Originally Posted by LinusLinothorax

He said we will see it in the walkthrough. Half of the preview-animation is missing in the walkthrough=Animation is different and much more simple. That means that the previewed animation isnt in the final game.
Conclusion: The employer dont said the truth.

But the BOBFP preview is not the final game, the game doesn't come out till next year some time, so at least 5 months. We can see that the animation has been updated in the Introducing... video.

**GatoVolador** · August 07, 2015, 02:35 AM

Originally Posted by LinusLinothorax

He said we will see it in the walkthrough. Half of the preview-animation is missing in the walkthrough=Animation is different and much more simple. That means that the previewed animation isnt in the final game.
Conclusion: The employer dont said the truth.

Don't quote-mine me darling. I gave you an explanation, if you gonna stick with your conspiration theory, do it without quote-mining me...

**Collateral_dmg** · August 07, 2015, 07:01 AM

Ffs will you guys stop arguing over some stupid unimportant animation? It's as if I came into a kindergarden.

But anyways, concerning the animations. They seem flawless and beautifull, so who ever did them well done, and when people complain about them, I don't think they know what they are actually talking about. But the transition between the animations is still weird, you can see the spider gliding into position before he killed that soldier, also the way empire troops glide when they turn is weird as well.

About other things:

The jumping is a bit excessive yes, if a couple of dudes jumped that would be fine. And horses shouldn't jump at all, maybe wolfs and boars, but not horses.

I really wish that they make the standard bearers for the units, they look too boring without them, and the banners in warhammer are pretty important (and cool).

I don't understand why people are complaining about state troops. I posted about this before, and I will again it seems. Just take a moment to look at the GW state troops http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Empire-State-Troops. CA did their best to copy them, obviously, and as far as that is concerned, I think they did a good job, apart from that helmet, but who the

even cares about the bloody helmet. I know I don't, and only the hardcore warhammer buffs seem to whine about that. I mean, you finnaly have an amazing game we have been waiting for since forever, and you complain about a stupid helmet? I seriously can't understand people today, and what we have become, it's just sad.

Did anyone else notice the different weapons and shields for orc warbosses? Take a closer look at the one we see figthing the gunners, then look at the karl franz video where the warboss shows up (but also in the demo, if you pay close attention). So different items for characters totaly confirmed? I think so..

The battle itself seems brutal and epic. The sounds of battle are also great (when zoomed in). The sound of guns are not so much though (and those freaking contrails!!! what the hell are they thinking??? They should really remove the whole thing, but oh well, that's what mods are for).

I personally like the spells. I don't see how they are outdated. What do you people want? Spells to look like those from MMOs like WOW or WAR? I can only imagine the number of people who would be able to run such a game if they looked like that (with all the other chaos going on). Plus, we only saw 3 spells basicly, and two of them were pretty much green, so lets just wait and see.

I also don't quite like orc walking animations, they just look clunky (I like the ones they did in WAR a well). And the trools too, they walk too fast and that's why it doesn't look good.

I count around 30+ units on each side (or at least the orcs' side).

I like the flying combat. I don't think that current computers and engines would be able to make what you people are asking for, i.e. flying units going through the air seamleslly circling around each other, picking up units from the ground etc. That stuff is for the movies. It requires a lot of work (and a lot of processing power from the users side). Maybe in a couple of years, but not today.

All in all I am excited to see more (give me more black oooorrrccsss!!!!!!!!!!), and I am satisfied with what I see so far. The game is set to release in 2016, and although we don't know exactly when, even if it's around march or april, they have plenty of time for improvement, and I hope they will use every minute they have.

Keep up the good work CA.

**LinusLinothorax** · August 07, 2015, 01:56 PM

Originally Posted by GatoVolador

Don't quote-mine me darling. I gave you an explanation, if you gonna stick with your conspiration theory, do it without quote-mining me...

Ok honey.

**The Angry Greek** · August 07, 2015, 03:36 PM

The problem is that the state regiments from the Reikland and Altdorf are well known for their discipline and efficiency, and are better equipped and dressed in comparison to most of the Empire. That is Karl Franz's army, and while I personally am okay with the State Troops, I admit that I've been spoiled by the Call of Warhammer Mod, and the Empire forces there. Thats why the ragged and poor appearance of the halberdiers, contrasts to the lore-accurate professional and equipped infantry of the Reikland.

**Zephyrus** · August 07, 2015, 06:39 PM

And on that note, do we need to have every 3rd soldier in the unit without a helmet or some unique garment to separate it from the other 2 soldiers with full uniform on? It seems unnecessary to have such distinguishing features on a unit of cannon fodder.

**DavidtheDuke** · August 07, 2015, 06:59 PM

Originally Posted by The Angry Greek

The problem is that the state regiments from the Reikland and Altdorf are well known for their discipline and efficiency, and are better equipped and dressed in comparison to most of the Empire. That is Karl Franz's army, and while I personally am okay with the State Troops, I admit that I've been spoiled by the Call of Warhammer Mod, and the Empire forces there. Thats why the ragged and poor appearance of the halberdiers, contrasts to the lore-accurate professional and equipped infantry of the Reikland.

A good middleground here (apart from completely removing the Morion helmets please) is the MTW2 upgrading system. I really hope a modder implements this (via being able to upgrade your unit to one with better armor, if CA really doesn't have a armor-upgrading representing on the battlefield).

**HigoChumbo** · August 07, 2015, 10:30 PM

I don't think it's so much a problem of the soldiers having "poor" equipment but a matter of the models not being well designed. A good artist can make a lowly soldier look great, so that's not it.

They also fail to capture the feeling of Warhammer units, those soldiers could be used in any historical TW and no one would notice the difference.

**Påsan** · August 07, 2015, 10:51 PM

The fact that you have to 'unite' the elector counts tells me that every county in the empire will have their own skin at least. And since you are 'unlocking' units then that tells me you get more units by uniting elector counts/orc tribes/karaks/vampire clans.

**scoicarius** · August 08, 2015, 05:15 AM

Originally Posted by Collateral_dmg

But anyways, concerning the animations. They seem flawless and beautifull, so who ever did them well done, and when people complain about them, I don't think they know what they are actually talking about. But the transition between the animations is still weird, you can see the spider gliding into position before he killed that soldier, also the way empire troops glide when they turn is weird as well.

I agree that most animations look great, and also with regard to the transition between animations (great point). Ideally animations should transition seamlessy from any state to any other state. They keep showing us single model animations (I'm referring to the ones with untextured models); I'd rather they showed flowing animations, with (hopefully) seamless transition between states.

The jumping is a bit excessive yes, if a couple of dudes jumped that would be fine. And horses shouldn't jump at all, maybe wolfs and boars, but not horses.

I agree that jumping is a bit excessive, in terms of frequency and effect. Notice the height jumpers reach:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

They look like basketball players in flight. Judging by their bulk, Orcs don't seem physically capable of jumping this high. I like the idea of jumping into the fray, but not the execution. And I want to see jumping where it makes sense.

I really wish that they make the standard bearers for the units, they look too boring without them, and the banners in warhammer are pretty important (and cool).

I also really want to see banners. The fact that the Orcs did have banners in the first trailer gives me hope:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

I don't understand why people are complaining about state troops. I posted about this before, and I will again it seems. Just take a moment to look at the GW state troops http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Empire-State-Troops. CA did their best to copy them, obviously, and as far as that is concerned, I think they did a good job, apart from that helmet, but who the

even cares about the bloody helmet. I know I don't, and only the hardcore warhammer buffs seem to whine about that. I mean, you finnaly have an amazing game we have been waiting for since forever, and you complain about a stupid helmet? I seriously can't understand people today, and what we have become, it's just sad.

Here I disagree. People have been complaining about a few things with regards to the State Troops, not just the helmets:

(1) overall design
(2) lack of details
(3) color scheme
(4) out-of-place morion helmets

For some people some of these aspects are more important than others. For me for instance it's all of them.

The battle itself seems brutal and epic. The sounds of battle are also great (when zoomed in). The sound of guns are not so much though (and those freaking contrails!!! what the hell are they thinking??? They should really remove the whole thing, but oh well, that's what mods are for).

I think the sounds of the battle could be greatly improved. Here's a wonderful post from the official board that perfectly expresses what I'd like to see (it's a bit long, but well worth the read):

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

So hear me out on this and let me know what you all think.

I get that battlefield units even for races like orcs need to be snappy in responsiveness and lets face it, no one ( at least not me) wants to be in a battle and have half my army turn on me because "DEY AIN'T GETTUN DER FARE SHARE O DA KILLNZ! WAAAGH!" or wait for the horde to stop watching two black orcs play punch for punch with each others faces (like the battle for middle earth), etc.

So the BEST way to become IMMERSED to make up for that is with one simple thing.

Audio.

In Many threads people have already come up with great ideas like having banners and hearing them snap and whip in the wind along with musicians which is a great start but we need to ask for more than that.

First off we need a really badass soundtrack. For the sake of simplicity lets skip details and just agree on that. Each race needs their own, and it has to rock that races flag like no other (like dawn of war 1 did)

Second, AS SOON AS you zoom in on a unit you should start to hear chatter, the empire should be shouting orders down the ranks, the greenskins should be just god awfully hilarious, undead hissing and wailing, dwarfs shouting oaths and grudges to right, etc etc.

Third, animation sound effects have to have some B/ALLS. Marching needs to be thunderous and echo especially if the force is of decent seize or if there are large units like giants and trolls ( this also includes the flapping of wing beats and siege and warmachines moving) and when units hit each other there needs to be SERIOUS power behind each sound effect. Does anyone remember when Gears Of War, the very first one came out? They went for the really gritty high gravity and huge force feel AND IT WAS AWESOME. This game needs that. If a giant swings its club and the players screen is ANYWHERE near it, there should be a primal survival instinct just slightly triggered inside them to duck.

Fourth, Combat sounds ok from the demo, but I barely heard ANY voices just clanking of weapons (which didn't impress me combat sound effect wise tbh, not being a ****, just would like something better) and there needs to be LOADS of people screaming orders, asking for help and screaming in rage, fear, or agonizing death throws (it happens a lot more than you think when someone dies, but if they actually get audio for it i can see that one being the rarest as if even remotely done right it can be quite disturbing) on the empire side, and ALL that PLUS more stuff on the greenskin side, especially hilarious stuff. The greenskins have always been warhammers soft spot for comedic relief, and they need to show (hear) that!

I think this game SORELY needs all these things stated above. Im not saying anything bad about it, or that it might not have these things already. I just thought it definitely couldn't hurt if the devs read there forum and saw us clamouring for amazing audio immersion and detail.[/QUOTE]

I also agree with respect to the contrails. However they also appeared in previous titles and could be disabled, so I'm confident it will also be the case here.

I personally like the spells. I don't see how they are outdated. What do you people want? Spells to look like those from MMOs like WOW or WAR? I can only imagine the number of people who would be able to run such a game if they looked like that (with all the other chaos going on). Plus, we only saw 3 spells basicly, and two of them were pretty much green, so lets just wait and see.

Here we have two issues: the visual effect of spells, and the visual effect of spell-casting. I like the former, but the latter not so much.

I also don't quite like orc walking animations, they just look clunky (I like the ones they did in WAR a well). And the trools too, they walk too fast and that's why it doesn't look good.

I agree here as well. I want Orcs and Trolls to look menacing, and their walking animations kind of break the spell. In my case, I also dislike the aspect of Trolls. The design of Trolls I like most is that from Mark of Chaos, and the official miniatures:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

I like the flying combat. I don't think that current computers and engines would be able to make what you people are asking for, i.e. flying units going through the air seamleslly circling around each other, picking up units from the ground etc. That stuff is for the movies. It requires a lot of work (and a lot of processing power from the users side). Maybe in a couple of years, but not today.

Dynamic air-to-air combat would indeed be hard to implement, but air-to-ground not so much. In fact it's already been beautifully done in Battle for Middle Earth quite a while ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEY4vf8PK0A&t=3m23s

**Orkfaeller** · August 08, 2015, 10:29 AM

I agree here as well. I want Orcs and Trolls to look menacing, and their walking animations kind of break the spell. In my case, I also dislike the aspect of Trolls. The design of Trolls I like most is that from Mark of Chaos, and the official miniatures:

The Mark of Chaos / Battle March troll has to be directly based on GW's Battle for Skull Pass, plastic troll miniature.

( the one on the right is the original model )

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

I'm not quite sure what CA's troll designs are based on.
Maybe a mix between the later metal troll miniatures and the old stone trolls?
With the bigger noses, ears and long arms?

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

Another option could be that they tried to "reverse enginier" Throgg, the chaos troll king.
You know, since Throgg is the latest troll model that GW released.
At least the head of CA's trolls reminds me alot of Throgg, a bit chubbier but without the chaos mutations ofcourse; and then put on a regular troll's body.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

Even the colour sceme is quite close. Closer to any of the other trolls at least.

**scoicarius** · August 08, 2015, 10:38 AM

Originally Posted by Orkfaeller

The Mark of Chaos / Battle March troll has to be directly based on GW's Battle for Skull Pass, plastic troll miniature.

( the one on the right is the original model )

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

I didn't know that. Great models. Thanks for the info.

**Doktor Soviet** · August 09, 2015, 02:08 PM

One thing I noticed is that halberdiers are far too spaced out. I always pictured them as being a tight formation, like how the Swiss used them in the 30 Years War.