Want to rant about rightwings and conservatives? This is your thread.

[alhoon]

Source?

New England seems to be quite safe despite practically non-existent regulations.
Also your list doesn't specify where those crimes occur.

New England is the exception to the rule; as I said there's a visible trend of more gun states = more death states. It is not always true, but it is more often true than not.

Also, while my list doesn't specify where those crimes occur, my list as I have stated includes Arkansas, Wyoming, South & North Dakota that have no large cities but still have astonishingly high murders.
Thus, the argument of yours that murder in USA is just because of a few aberrant cities is clearly wrong; there are murders everywhere in USA, and they have greater concentrations (usually) in gun-happy places.

Here is a rural area in Greece, with population similar to Wyoming and without big cities. Crete... where guns are prevalent although they are technically illegal. Many people own guns and all.
The study is in Greek.
From 1987 to 2021, in 35 years, there have been 337 murders in Crete. That's easily double the ratio of murders in other parts of Greece that don't have as many guns.
And BTW, the ratio of homicides in Crete, is about half that of Wyoming.


And now, about Immigration. Greece does have a problem with illegal immigration. During the Arab Spring years, we had about a million of illegal immigrants and asylum seekers in a country the size of (and the population of) Ohio. That is, about 1/12 people currently staying within borders around 2015 were illegal immigrants. And not people overstaying their visas, but traumatized people coming from war-torn countries.
And yet, we never went more than a quarter of the murders Ohio has.

You are trying to put the blame for the tens of thousands of murders of USA in a few democrat, anti-gun cities and immigration. That is not true and doesn't hold up to scrutiny.

[Coughdrop addict]

https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-brief...aska-election/

Republicans are fuming about ranked choice and “jungle” primary voting systems after Democrat Mary Peltola won a special House election in Alaska over former Gov. Sarah Palin (R) and Republican Nick Begich.
The race in The Last Frontier was the first federal test of the state’s unusual voting system that is gaining influence across the country.


“Ranked-choice voting is a scam to rig elections,” Sen. Tom Cotton (R-Ark.) tweeted after results from Alaska’s special election showing Peltola won Wednesday. “60% of Alaska voters voted for a Republican, but thanks to a convoluted process and ballot exhaustion—which disenfranchises voters—a Democrat ‘won.’”

"Elections are only fair when we win." claims the party that objects to being called fascist.

[Heathen Hammer]

New England is the exception to the rule; as I said there's a visible trend of more gun states = more death states. It is not always true, but it is more often true than not.

Also, while my list doesn't specify where those crimes occur, my list as I have stated includes Arkansas, Wyoming, South & North Dakota that have no large cities but still have astonishingly high murders.
Thus, the argument of yours that murder in USA is just because of a few aberrant cities is clearly wrong; there are murders everywhere in USA, and they have greater concentrations (usually) in gun-happy places.

Here is a rural area in Greece, with population similar to Wyoming and without big cities. Crete... where guns are prevalent although they are technically illegal. Many people own guns and all.
The study is in Greek.
From 1987 to 2021, in 35 years, there have been 337 murders in Crete. That's easily double the ratio of murders in other parts of Greece that don't have as many guns.
And BTW, the ratio of homicides in Crete, is about half that of Wyoming.


And now, about Immigration. Greece does have a problem with illegal immigration. During the Arab Spring years, we had about a million of illegal immigrants and asylum seekers in a country the size of (and the population of) Ohio. That is, about 1/12 people currently staying within borders around 2015 were illegal immigrants. And not people overstaying their visas, but traumatized people coming from war-torn countries.
And yet, we never went more than a quarter of the murders Ohio has.

You are trying to put the blame for the tens of thousands of murders of USA in a few democrat, anti-gun cities and immigration. That is not true and doesn't hold up to scrutiny.

I think you are missing the point here.
Most of violent crime in USA comes from major city areas, where organized crime gangs have their turf wars over who gets to sell hard drugs where, etc. Areas where is is illegal to carry a gun for self-defense, but most gun crime happens - because its done by criminals who don't care about "gun control" laws.
Remove that from equation, and USA is quite a safe place to be.
I can't talk about specifics of things in Greece, but this is the case in North America - the primary driver behind crime and violence are major cities with liberal administrations.
So gun control is something that is simply one of many toxic luxury liberal beliefs espoused by either upper class (which enjoys life in secluded gated mansions and surrounded by an army of armed security guards), or not very intelligent people that buy into purely emotional irrational anti-gun propaganda and simply vote against their interests.

[Heathen Hammer]

Anti-gun hysteria isn't just an inconvenience, it costs human lives:

On September 4, 2022, a stabbing spree occurred in thirteen locations on the James Smith Cree Nation and in Weldon, Saskatchewan, Canada, killing 10 people and hospitalizing 15 others.^[1] It is one of the deadliest massacres in Canadian history.^[2]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022...ewan_stabbings
As we can see, law enforcement has failed to prevent the attackers on time, while victims themselves couldn't defend themselves thanks to existing anti-gun laws.
People that pass anti-gun laws aren't just irrational busybodies, they have blood on their hands.

[PointOfViewGun]

Anti-gun hysteria isn't just an inconvenience, it costs human lives:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022...ewan_stabbings
As we can see, law enforcement has failed to prevent the attackers on time, while victims themselves couldn't defend themselves thanks to existing anti-gun laws.
People that pass anti-gun laws aren't just irrational busybodies, they have blood on their hands.

Except, Canada has much much much less mass murder committed with any tool compared to what USA has. What you're trying to argue is especially idiotic given the details of this case.

Canada stabbings: Police hunt suspects after killing spree in Saskatchewan

Victims were found in 13 locations in the remote indigenous community James Smith Cree Nation and nearby Weldon.

This has little to do with guns. The only hysteria here is your attempt to connect this to gun regulations. You are not even attempting to provide a coherent argument on it.

[Heathen Hammer]

Except, Canada has much much much less mass murder committed with any tool compared to what USA has.

Yes, Canada has less population then US and less organized crime. Doesn't really change the fact that if those victims had guns they would probably not end up being stabbed to death.

This has little to do with guns.

That's literally the consequence of people not having guns to defend themselves.

[PointOfViewGun]

Yes, Canada has less population then US and less organized crime. Doesn't really change the fact that if those victims had guns they would probably not end up being stabbed to death.

Canada has much less gun violence per capita. Saying that if the victims had guns they would be alive is not a valid argument. It's devoid of any knowledge you currently have on the matter.

That's literally the consequence of people not having guns to defend themselves.

Guns are not banned in Canada and no it is not such a consequence. You're just throwing idiotic buzz claims out there without an inch of intelligent argumentation.

[Heathen Hammer]

Saying that if the victims had guns they would be alive is not a valid argument.

It is a valid argument, because its much harder to stab someone who has a gun. Attacking common sense is just making your irrational anti-gun position look even more irrational.

Guns are not banned in Canada

Carry and use of firearms for self-defense is illegal in Canada.
Perhaps you should do some research before you throw around baseless claims?

[PointOfViewGun]

It is a valid argument, because its much harder to stab someone who has a gun. Attacking common sense is just making your irrational anti-gun position look even more irrational.

It's as easy to stab someone without a gun as it is with someone with a gun. Stabbers don't usually run at you hands up holding a gun yelling "I'm going to stab you" from a distance.

Carry and use of firearms for self-defense is illegal in Canada.
Perhaps you should do some research before you throw around baseless claims?

There is no law banning firearms for self-defense in Canada. Self-defense simply needs to be established in proportion to the threat.

[alhoon]

I think you are missing the point here.
Most of violent crime in USA comes from major city areas, where organized crime gangs have their turf wars over who gets to sell hard drugs where, etc. Areas where is is illegal to carry a gun for self-defense, but most gun crime happens - because its done by criminals who don't care about "gun control" laws.
Remove that from equation, and USA is quite a safe place to be.

And I am telling you, with proof and actual data that this is completely wrong.
Take for example Wyoming, the Dakotas and Arkansas. They are not a safe place to be. The chances to be murdered in Arkansas is ten times higher than in Most of Europe, and three times higher than it is in Berlin or other violent European cities.
And more importantly:
The chances to be murdered in Arkansas are about as high as to be murdered in New York City. The city, not the state. The city, with its gang wars and all.

[Septentrionalis]

And I am telling you, with proof and actual data that this is completely wrong.
Take for example Wyoming, the Dakotas and Arkansas. They are not a safe place to be. The chances to be murdered in Arkansas is ten times higher than in Most of Europe, and three times higher than it is in Berlin or other violent European cities.

I would be interested in learning what data that is. If we leave Europe aside and only look at the United States and the information in the Wikipedia link (the accuracy of which I cannot vouch for), Wyoming has one of the lowest homicide rates in all of US. Particularly among states outside the affluent New England area. Dakotas are not doing that bad. Arkansas is bad, but the less affluent southern states have huge drug, gang, and criminality problems. Particularly Mississippi that is home to a number of Chicago-based gangs with very high membership.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o..._homicide_rate

[alhoon]

I would be interested in learning what data that is. If we leave Europe aside and only look at the United States and the information in the Wikipedia link (the accuracy of which I cannot vouch for), Wyoming has one of the lowest homicide rates in all of US. Particularly among states outside the affluent New England area. Dakotas are not doing that bad. Arkansas is bad, but the less affluent southern states have huge drug, gang, and criminality problems. Particularly Mississippi that is home to a number of Chicago-based gangs with very high membership.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o..._homicide_rate

I have spent a lot of time these past months reading government sites about homicides in the world and in USA. Also, you say "if we leave Europe aside and look at the USA..." why would we leave Europe aside? The West is Europe, USA, Canada and Australia.

But let's talk about different areas: USA has more murders per capita that the Philippines with their gangs and all.
Indonesia, Vietnam, Bangladesh, Pakistan and several other non-at-war Asian countries are at 1/3 or half of USA!

Now, you mentioned how nice Wyoming is, with it being just as bad as Berlin, one of the most violent EU (not European; Kiev is in Europe for example ) cities. That Wyoming's 2.5 murder's per 100K, in a rural land never-the-less where each murder is felt by the local society, is actually "one of the less bad" in USA is astonishing.

[Coughdrop addict]

https://www.cnn.com/2022/09/06/polit...gia/index.html

A Republican county official in Georgia escorted two operatives working with an attorney for former President Donald Trump into the county's election offices on the same day a voting system there was breached, newly obtained video shows.The breach is now under investigation by the Georgia Bureau of Investigation and is of interest to the Fulton County District Attorney, who is conducting a wider criminal probe of interference in the 2020 election.
The video sheds more light on how an effort spearheaded by lawyers and others around Trump to seek evidence of voter fraud was executed on the ground from Georgia to Michigan to Colorado, often with the assistance of sympathetic local officials.

It's time for the DOJ to use RICO on the Republican party and treat it the same way they would any other criminal organization. Once low-level goons like these start talking it will inevitably lead up the hierarchy to Trump.

[Heathen Hammer]

And I am telling you, with proof and actual data that this is completely wrong.
Take for example Wyoming, the Dakotas and Arkansas. They are not a safe place to be. The chances to be murdered in Arkansas is ten times higher than in Most of Europe, and three times higher than it is in Berlin or other violent European cities.
And more importantly:
The chances to be murdered in Arkansas are about as high as to be murdered in New York City. The city, not the state. The city, with its gang wars and all.

For that you have to thank the lawmakers that started "war on drugs", which again, isn't really related to actual firearms issues, just dumb or corrupt politicians criminalizing victimless recreational activities and thus giving monopoly on high-value market to violent organized crime groups.
.

[Septentrionalis]

Also, you say "if we leave Europe aside and look at the USA..." why would we leave Europe aside?

[...]
Now, you mentioned how nice Wyoming is, with it being just as bad as Berlin, one of the most violent EU (not European; Kiev is in Europe for example ) cities. That Wyoming's 2.5 murder's per 100K, in a rural land never-the-less where each murder is felt by the local society, is actually "one of the less bad" in USA is astonishing.

I misunderstood you. You weren't trying to highlight bad places in Americas. In Finland where I am from, the corresponding figure (homicides per 100,000 per year) would be 1.8 on a particularly bad year and 1.2 on a particularly good year (I am not sure why there is such variation), which would make it the second or third least violent state in the US if it was a state in the US.

[Roma_Victrix]

The Washington Post just revealed in a new article that among the items taken from Mar-a-Lago in the FBI raid were top secret documents regarding the nuclear military capabilities of a foreign nation, the type of classified intel kept secure in a SCIF and known only by a handful of individuals on a need-to-know basis. The foreign nation in question has not been specified, but could likely be Israel given how clandestine it is about its possible nuclear capabilities. On a possibly related note, Trump's son-in-law Jared Kushner's private equity firm recently received $2 billion from the royal family of Saudi Arabia. There is a smell stronger than "fishy" here, and as I've said in a previous post, Trump could very well go to prison on charges of espionage (the charge the Rosenbergs were executed for when they shared US nuclear secrets with the Soviets). Trump going to prison certainly wouldn't do anything good for cooling tempers and calming the asinine civil war rhetoric of some on the right wing, but they've pretty much already gone for the jugular anyway with the January 6th riot at the Capitol.

[Heathen Hammer]

according to people familiar with the matter,

Translated from journo newspeak as "just trust me bro".

[Lord Thesaurian]

It’s interesting speculation but story wise, I would think the Iranians would pay double what the Saudis would for “Israeli nuclear secrets.”

[Coughdrop addict]

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...ecti-rcna46669

A federal judge in Texas has ruled that a provision of the Affordable Care Act that mandates free coverage of certain drugs that prevent HIV infections violates the religious beliefs of a Christian-owned company.
The ruling by U.S. District Judge Reed O’Connor came in response to a lawsuit filed by Jonathan Mitchell, a former Texas solicitor general and a conservative activist, on behalf of Braidwood Management Inc. and other self-described Christian employers and employees.

The 2020 lawsuit challenged a provision of the ACA that required free coverage of the HIV drugs Truvada and Descovy, commonly known as PrEP, that hundreds ofthousands of people in America — mostly gay and bisexual men — take.

I wonder how these people would react to a suit claiming the government not forcing Christians to pay the jizya violates the religions freedoms of Muslims? Or not throwing Christians to lions violates those of certain neo-pagans?

[alhoon]

For that you have to thank the lawmakers that started "war on drugs", which again, isn't really related to actual firearms issues, just dumb or corrupt politicians criminalizing victimless recreational activities and thus giving monopoly on high-value market to violent organized crime groups.
.

What are you talking about? Drugs are illegal in most of Europe, aside a couple of pothead nations - and those nations have above-average murders.
It doesn't have to do with decriminalizing drugs. Colorado, that decriminalized Canabis first, has ~6 murders per 100K people, more than 5 times the European average.

The war on drugs certainly increased violent crime, but it is certainly not responsible for the majority of murders.