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Thread: [Amendment] Pater Familias or Patronus Award

  1. #61

    Default Re: [Amendment] Pater Familias or Patronus Award

    Quote Originally Posted by PikeStance View Post
    I am glad that you ask... we actually do, so i will explain.
    Small medium and large awards have three different qualifiers; Notable, Significant, and Exceptional.

    1 to 3 patronage fits within the "Notable" descriptor, but 9, 14 would not fit into "notable," but fits "significant." The same could be said of 15 or more patronage. We are at the "exceptional" level. To utilized 6 levels, it would fit better to have two in each rather than an uneven number. To put it another way, based on the number of patronages, one size does not fit all, so we need more than 6 colors, we need different sizes of awards to fit the accomplishments.

    I hope this is clearer.
    I don't see a reasoning, only a description. You are also recipient of not just one, or two, but three awards that utilize 6 separate levels without the need to complicate it.
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  2. #62
    Akar's Avatar I am not a clever man
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Pater Familias or Patronus Award

    I'm with POVG here.

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  3. #63

    Default Re: [Amendment] Pater Familias or Patronus Award

    I am not sure why? You can't give a medium or large award for just one patronage, as well s a small or medium award for 15 plus patronages.
    Three would be best. People said they like more levels. I accommodated. What's the point in using six colors if you are already changing the size of the award? Only staff service awards uses the 6 color scheme.

  4. #64
    Akar's Avatar I am not a clever man
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Pater Familias or Patronus Award

    You can't give a medium or large award for just one patronage, as well s a small or medium award for 15 plus patronages.
    Says who?

    Only staff service awards uses the 6 color scheme.
    And every other tiered award uses a similar system except with less iterations. What's your point?

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  5. #65
    ggggtotalwarrior's Avatar hey it geg
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Pater Familias or Patronus Award

    My last interjection in here is gonna be 1/3/7/15/30 using POVG’s naming convention in post #54

    Not a fan of Pike’s proposal or IMO needlessly splitting the same criteria into 3 separate awards rather than just a single award with more tiers. I don’t even really think this award is necessary but if it is adapted I think this is the best way to do it. It seems everyone is pretty entrenched so I think I’ll just go back to the sidelines and see the sparks fly.
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  6. #66

    Default Re: [Amendment] Pater Familias or Patronus Award

    Quote Originally Posted by Akar View Post
    Says who?
    And every other tiered award uses a similar system except with less iterations. What's your point?
    The color awards are used for service rendered over a period of time. (it is hard to ell with the staff awards, because they removed the wording). It isn't tiered. It is just showing a passage of time that you have spent doing something.
    The tiered awards are just three levels, Bronze, Silver and Gold and are a recent inclusion.

    it is silly to give anything but a small award for one patronages, as well as giving a small award for 15 patronages. You need small, medium and large for the range you proposed. it doesn't make sense otherwise. I am little baffled by the resistance.

    Anyway, I updated the OP with the last suggestions. I am sure it will not pass between those who would rather do nothing to those who cannot compromise. Such as the Curia I supposed.

  7. #67
    Akar's Avatar I am not a clever man
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Pater Familias or Patronus Award

    When you're the only one advocating for the proposal as it's currently written and multiple people are advocating for a different wording it would seem obvious that you are the one who is unable to compromise.

    Anyway, I updated the OP with the last suggestions.
    As far as I can tell you didn't update it with any suggestions except your own, which multiple people have already said they do not support.
    Last edited by Akar; December 02, 2021 at 03:39 AM.

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  8. #68
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Pater Familias or Patronus Award

    From my understanding, staff award tiers are a combination of merit and time, and the discretion in judging that is why the descriptions remain general.
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  9. #69
    Flinn's Avatar His Dudeness of TWC
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Pater Familias or Patronus Award

    Quote Originally Posted by Dismounted Feudal Knight View Post
    From my understanding, staff award tiers are a combination of merit and time, and the discretion in judging that is why the descriptions remain general.
    Pretty much this, yes
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  10. #70

    Default Re: [Amendment] Pater Familias or Patronus Award

    Quote Originally Posted by Akar View Post
    When you're the only one advocating for the proposal as it's currently written and multiple people are advocating for a different wording it would seem obvious that you are the one who is unable to compromise.
    As far as I can tell you didn't update it with any suggestions except your own, which multiple people have already said they do not support.
    No, my proposal was just three levels. I changed it from 3 to 6 based on the suggestions.

    Having a small award that is Bronze and Silver, a medium award that is Gold and Emerald, and a large award that is ruby and Amethyst looks silly to me.

  11. #71
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Pater Familias or Patronus Award

    @ Pike

    since you posted this, do you want to me to close and archive this?

    Possibly you can change this into a discussion for the sake of giving people further opportunities to discuss this idea, but having two Amendments up about the same stuff, form the same member, could be confusing and will probably be detrimental for that new Amendment proposal.

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  12. #72

    Default Re: [Amendment] Pater Familias or Patronus Award

    The two are not mutually exclusive. I only use the term, "alternatively" for those that objected to this proposal.

  13. #73
    Flinn's Avatar His Dudeness of TWC
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Pater Familias or Patronus Award

    As you wish
    Under the patronage of Finlander, patron of Lugotorix & Lifthrasir & joerock22 & Socrates1984 & Kilo11 & Vladyvid & Dick Cheney & phazer & Jake Armitage & webba 84 of the Imperial House of Hader

  14. #74
    Akar's Avatar I am not a clever man
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Pater Familias or Patronus Award

    I'm not sure how that's an "alternative" lmao.

    It's like saying beheading is an alternative to decapitation.

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  15. #75
    ggggtotalwarrior's Avatar hey it geg
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Pater Familias or Patronus Award

    That one is legitimately far worse than this one
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  16. #76

    Default Re: [Amendment] Pater Familias or Patronus Award

    I don't know if beggars can be choosers right now.

    2021 - 6
    2020 - 7
    2019 - 7
    2018 - 25
    2017 - 11
    2016 - 23
    2015 - 28
    2014 - 36
    2013 - 37
    2012 - 47

    We have less patronages in the past three years than we had of all of 2018.
    The idea of having a committed group of citizens to seek out potential citizens was already voted down (It didn't even go to vote).
    They are not a lot of options out there. promoting the Curia is a waste of time if they aren't enough citizens to populate it.
    I am not sure being a negative Nancy is the best option.

  17. #77
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Pater Familias or Patronus Award

    The sheer irony and hypocrisy of your statements could incapacitate a bear

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  18. #78

    Default Re: [Amendment] Pater Familias or Patronus Award

    Quote Originally Posted by Akar View Post
    The sheer irony and hypocrisy of your statements could incapacitate a bear
    Oh, saying we should try something,...anything, rather than nothing makes me a hypocrite.

  19. #79
    ggggtotalwarrior's Avatar hey it geg
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Pater Familias or Patronus Award

    Change isn’t necessarily a bad thing but the idea that change on these specific issues is somehow what is necessary to revitalize the site is naive. The lack of citizenships in recent years isn't the illness, it’s a symptom of things completely unrelated to the curia and way above what playing with some award icons is going to solve. That said, even if these were the steps necessary to fix the issue, that doesn’t mean that a lot of your proposals on these specific issues aren’t terrible. Some come off as attempting to create an elite tier/divide citizenship among its few remaining active users in an unhealthy way while others have a misguided obsession with increasing patronization while not addressing that the number of active non-citizens positively contributing isnt very high for other reasons that the Curia should attempt to find a solution for first, and yet others like this one seem really insistent on creating shiny pieces of hardware that very few people (usually yourself being one) qualify for while not accounting for if it creates an even feasible goal for others to attain.

    If you want citizenship patronization to grow, a curia medal or badge is not the solution but taking extreme measures to grow the site is. I understand that your concern amounts to “citizenship=Retention of good users within the community” but there is no one to be retained or patronized if there’s no new long-term active users coming to the site. I didn’t come here for a medal or from even knowing the curia existed, but from interest in TW->Mods->staying for other areas when my interest in TW dried up. This proposal may have had merit years ago, maybe, but with the current state of the site it won’t increase patronization or retention of worthy users AND it just functions to give you specifically and maybe just a small handful of people still active a useless medal. This idea doesn’t even account for with how small a user base there is, that anyone who would want to patronize 1 worthy user a year to keep their medal is literally going to have to compete with others for that same right and patronization could just devolve into popularity contests among patrons rather than the usual where two friendly users develop a rapport and one offers to help the other. This risks making patronization rather than something you do to award a friend who you feel is an exemplary member of the community and have extensive interaction with into “ I gotta find one guy within the next few weeks who can squeak by to keep my medal”. Even as someone with relatively low citizenship standards who agreed with you and felt that years ago it was too much of an elitist club, I do feel it necessary to point out that you personally should be aware of how bad it can look for the site to patronize and let extremely unworthy members in as well.
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  20. #80

    Default Re: [Amendment] Pater Familias or Patronus Award

    Quote Originally Posted by ggggtotalwarrior View Post
    Change isn’t necessarily a bad thing but the idea that change on these specific issues is somehow what is necessary to revitalize the site is naive. The lack of citizenships in recent years isn't the illness, it’s a symptom of things completely unrelated to the curia and way above what playing with some award icons is going to solve. That said, even if these were the steps necessary to fix the issue, that doesn’t mean that a lot of your proposals on these specific issues aren’t terrible. Some come off as attempting to create an elite tier/divide citizenship among its few remaining active users in an unhealthy way while others have a misguided obsession with increasing patronization while not addressing that the number of active non-citizens positively contributing isnt very high for other reasons that the Curia should attempt to find a solution for first, and yet others like this one seem really insistent on creating shiny pieces of hardware that very few people (usually yourself being one) qualify for while not accounting for if it creates an even feasible goal for others to attain.

    If you want citizenship patronization to grow, a curia medal or badge is not the solution but taking extreme measures to grow the site is. I understand that your concern amounts to “citizenship=Retention of good users within the community” but there is no one to be retained or patronized if there’s no new long-term active users coming to the site. I didn’t come here for a medal or from even knowing the curia existed, but from interest in TW->Mods->staying for other areas when my interest in TW dried up. This proposal may have had merit years ago, maybe, but with the current state of the site it won’t increase patronization or retention of worthy users AND it just functions to give you specifically and maybe just a small handful of people still active a useless medal. This idea doesn’t even account for with how small a user base there is, that anyone who would want to patronize 1 worthy user a year to keep their medal is literally going to have to compete with others for that same right and patronization could just devolve into popularity contests among patrons rather than the usual where two friendly users develop a rapport and one offers to help the other. This risks making patronization rather than something you do to award a friend who you feel is an exemplary member of the community and have extensive interaction with into “ I gotta find one guy within the next few weeks who can squeak by to keep my medal”. Even as someone with relatively low citizenship standards who agreed with you and felt that years ago it was too much of an elitist club, I do feel it necessary to point out that you personally should be aware of how bad it can look for the site to patronize and let extremely unworthy members in as well.
    Geg, there is a lot agree with here.
    The notion that the Curia is an elitist club developed as standards for the amount of content that was "needed" in order to become a citizen grew. Citizenship did not start out that way. What I have promoted was what it was when it was created. At the time, it was all about being active and making good post. I have read comments when people inquire about citizenship that they need to do some "staff" position and then come back. Well, no. When I say "exemplary" I am talking about the average poster who is polite and engaging on the forum. You do not need to volunteer for staff or other committees. This is far from a lower standard. if anything, a premium on attitude and behavior means we will have polite and engaging citizens rather than one with a lot of trinkets in their profile.

    I think if I was error is keeping with what was traditionally done. A medium award for people patronizing. I took the idea and double down. Our mindset should not be about recognizing the super patronizer. They (myself) already have the intrinsic motivation to patronize. I do not need motivation to do it. Would a medal work? I don't know. It is worth a try, but we need to keep it more focus on what we want to do. here is what I suggest.

    All small awards
    1 - Bronze
    3 - Silver
    5 - Gold.

    That's it. it is also not going to be retroactive. This proposal is not about what has been done, it is about what needs to be done.
    If we want to recognize those who have patronize a lot; we have the Curial Service Award and the Loinscloth.

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