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Thread: The latest anti-liberal rant thread (get your daily dose here)

  1. #781
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    Default Re: The latest anti-liberal rant thread (get your daily dose here)

    Quote Originally Posted by Legio_Italica View Post
    The “progressive” left joined the rest of us in condemning a vocal minority’s controversial rise to prominence, its deliberately destructive racial grievance rhetoric, and its brazen, politically motivated assault on American institutions and public servants, as long as doing so suited them politically. Now we are obliged to accept the same deliberate destruction as “change” when the shoe is on the other foot. Label me whatever you want. I’ll pass.
    Pass all you want. Hyperbole isn't helping you. Nor the fact you are making mountains out of mole hills. All over as you described, a vocal minority.

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    Default Re: The latest anti-liberal rant thread (get your daily dose here)

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanoi View Post
    They're all afraid of the same thing. Change.
    Using a cliché to rebuke an alleged cliché. Impressive.



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    Default Re: The latest anti-liberal rant thread (get your daily dose here)

    Quote Originally Posted by Cope View Post
    Using a cliché to rebuke an alleged cliché. Impressive.
    Well sure if you ignore the rest of that quoted post. Not gonna change it's just a poor speech full of hyperbole and fear-mongering about America dying\changing. Those speeches are a dime a dozen and are always pretty much centered around a change that is occuring. In this case its just overblown.

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    Default Re: The latest anti-liberal rant thread (get your daily dose here)

    Quote Originally Posted by Legio_Italica View Post
    All nations are founded on a mixture of legend, luck and fact.
    This is a confusing bit of nonsense. The US was founded by armed rebels: thats a fact. They declared independence and wrote a Constitution. There are some silly legends about all this, and some luck in the unfolding of events (eg George III was batty and the French helped) but the US is founded on some documents, and the military reality of French intervention.

    Quote Originally Posted by Legio_Italica View Post
    American culture, American morals, American heritage, is vested in the self evident truth of “the inalienable rights endowed by our Creator,” and the journey to carry that mission statement to fruition.
    This sounds like utter rubbish. A small elite appealed to a mishmash of christian and classical ideas when they hurriedly cobbled together their paperwork. Their culture heritage and morals pre-existed the writing of the foundational documents: states joining the union later brought their own culture, morals and heritage, and there were people in the Americas included in the US at its creation and later who had no say in the foundational documents but whose culture, morals and heritage remain a part of the US and America. For example the indigenous nations, the Hispanic, Francophone and other non-British peoples annexed to the US. Culture, morals and heritage are constantly evolving, not some an antique inheritance.

    Quote Originally Posted by Legio_Italica View Post
    To dismiss this as naive or fanciful is a fairly generic critique of patriotism or the creation of nation states at a conceptual level.
    But your opening statement appears extremely naive and fanciful, not to mention stupid. I mean you can't just give yourself a pass at this point, that's even more naive and fanciful.

    Quote Originally Posted by Legio_Italica View Post
    It also fundamentally invalidates the argument posed by those who attack American patriotism or naturalism on the basis of it being unjust, discriminatory or consequently unlawful, because like the abolition of slavery, female suffrage or other social progress, America’s journey to create “a more perfect Union” is predicated on the collective, codified affirmation of these God-given rights, and whom those rights apply to.
    The CSA argument about abolition were not decided by the Constitution (which they held supported their position) or God (who does not forbid slavery) but by men on the battlefield. Indeed Lincoln used decidedly unconstitutional means to achieve his noble and just victory, and its possible to see the freeing of the slaves as a triumph of an un-Founding Fatherly act of violence against their intent.

    Quote Originally Posted by Legio_Italica View Post
    America is not an ethnic nation, but a new nation in a new world, conceived in Liberty by the consent of the governed.
    This is a mishmash of terms. The US is not really a nation (a synonym of ethnos BTW) despite Lincolns' solemn (and most effective) rhetoric. Its a federation of states. Lincoln uses the term loosely as his hearers might understand it from its misuse in newspapers and his sloppiness can be excused because he was addressing a crowd on the subject of honouring war dead not Constitutional matters. Your rhetoric is less forgivable as you;re not president, its not solemn or well crafted and you are describing the US as an entity.

    Quote Originally Posted by Legio_Italica View Post
    As such, American identity is not passed in the bloodstream. We are a nation of laws, not men. If it is not cherished and affirmed today, it will cease to exist tomorrow. That is what is under attack and at stake.
    There are competing visions of "American Identity" (as I imagine there were in all eras of US history). Its a shame the inalienable rights endowed by the creator are so easily alienated.

    The USwill cease to exist tomorrow? You seem to lack a coherent understanding tf the strength of the US system. I see the current unrest having a few obvious causes. 1. The US has unequal wealth distribution (I mean thats part of its success, the lure of wealth creating more wealth, but its been fairer in the past) 2. You have a troll president that spends more time troolling The People than leading them and 3. there's a plague on and the resultant deaths and economic impacts (including those from control measures) have led to more poverty.

    Quote Originally Posted by Legio_Italica View Post
    Thus, as summarized in the opinion piece, you can throw the baby out with the bathwater, but you cannot get rid of the bathtub, much as one might try.
    https://grist.org/living/what-should...y-old-bathtub/

    There are a number of sensible things to do with an old bathtub.

    Quote Originally Posted by Legio_Italica View Post
    And so we are left with a “Revolution” that is a perverse, putrid slop of racial and ethnic tribalism, fueled by grievance narratives and recycled Soviet propaganda tactics. As such it is organized warfare upon the Republic itself, designed to divide and conquer Americans against one another and redefine our national identity as a massive fraud perpetrated by a vast, nebulous conspiracy of oppression. Not only is such a “Revolution” openly counterfactual and revisionist, the Politburo of yesteryear could only dream of such success.
    I mean if we change a few words this could be a rant by Lord North against the rebellious colonials. Its not that coherent. You could just say "US politics includes some stupidity".

    Quote Originally Posted by Legio_Italica View Post
    A people filled with introspective doubt, distrust and self loathing in place of national values, utterly demoralized by the endlessly shifting goalposts, manufactured conflict, vengeance narratives, puritanical inquisitions and revisionism cannot possibly unite to express our collective will, nor defend our national interests, let alone project power externally with any longevity or consistency. That is the endgame begun long before the opportunistic acceleration presented by the historic domestic crises in our midst; one seized upon by the foreign authoritarian antagonists of today. It has spread across the western world as the elites parrot political actors prodded by ideological activists. It is a crisis of leadership which believes in nothing in particular, as much as a crisis of a culture being purged of itself. It is the nation itself, often those among us who are the poorest and most vulnerable to instability and strife, who will pay the price for the Revolutionaries’ campaign of destruction for destruction’s sake, the harbingers of the state of our decline.
    Yes yes I see. Commies, the death of America, "our enemies are a mixture of dirty stupid and evil" and yet somehow also a threat. It sounds like you feel the People need to be protected from themselves.

    "Shifting goalposts" are a part of the US story (see Native American treaties). "Manufactured conflict" holy cow, from Iraq to 1812 thats been a mainstay of US foreign policy."Vengeance narratives" ditto. "Puritanical inquisitions" from Salem to the Patriot Act by way of McCarthy, thats practically a core American value. "Revisionism" welp you're doing it now ("racial and ethnic tribalism"-its the black people who are the racists!), I can only assume its a core American value as well.

    Its almost like you like these things when they are done by "your side" but not when "dirty commie racists and ethnic tribalists" do them.

    I have to say your posts seem like a complete waste of time. You've piled up silly rhetoric on malapropisms to deliver a poor and confused result.
    Jatte lambastes Calico Rat

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    Default Re: The latest anti-liberal rant thread (get your daily dose here)

    @Cyclops:

    You have exactly put the words out of my mouth.^^

    Soviet propaganda? Sounds as good ol' Mc Carthy has raised from the dead... Some like those witch hunts of so called reds. It seems to be a tradition. Salem shall burn .
    Cause tomorrow is a brand-new day
    And tomorrow you'll be on your way
    Don't give a damn about what other people say
    Because tomorrow is a brand-new day


  6. #786

    Default Re: The latest anti-liberal rant thread (get your daily dose here)

    Quote Originally Posted by Cope View Post
    Using a cliché to rebuke an alleged cliché. Impressive.
    Deja vu. It’s been common knowledge for years now that BLM leadership/founders are self described “trained Marxists” trading on Pan Africanist racial identitarian themes who cut their teeth working with a communist political action group chaired by a known militant communist and convicted violent criminal. Etc etc. There is the accompanying narrative already cited in MSM that insists “anti racism” is necessarily anti capitalism. Another activist trolled conservative news outlets the other day talking about second amendment rights and forming local militias trained by former Special Forces to battle police, and “burning down this system and replacing it if we don’t get what we want from this country....maybe figuratively, maybe literally....it’s a matter of interpretation.”

    It was one thing when these clowns were primarily focused on lying about “hands up don’t shoot.” Now they’re wagging the dog as the arbiters of and completely mainstream lobbyists for “change.” And so we hear the familiar cacophony from sympathetic partisans to downplay and dismiss even the most obvious and incontrovertible criticism as stupid, dishonest, reactionary, hyperbolic, or even entirely fake. Republicans similarly went from keeping Trump at arm’s length in the run up to 2016 to being his own personal PR team and cleanup crew when it became clear he was the man of the hour. Same feckless leadership, different day.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops
    I have to say your posts seem like a complete waste of time. You've piled up silly rhetoric on malapropisms to deliver a poor and confused result.
    And I have to say it’s ironic you nevertheless chose to respond in ostensible detail and yet offer nothing at all save generic appeals to ridicule, willfully uninformed whataboutism and some truly inventive strawmen in lieu of a presumably less wasteful use of your time. Frankly I’m not sure what’s funnier, that you should fail so completely it feels deliberate, or that you beat someone else to the punch.
    Of these facts there cannot be any shadow of doubt: for instance, that civil society was renovated in every part by Christian institutions; that in the strength of that renewal the human race was lifted up to better things-nay, that it was brought back from death to life, and to so excellent a life that nothing more perfect had been known before, or will come to be known in the ages that have yet to be. - Pope Leo XIII

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    Default Re: The latest anti-liberal rant thread (get your daily dose here)

    Quote Originally Posted by Legio_Italica View Post
    ...

    And I have to say it’s ironic you nevertheless chose to respond in ostensible detail and yet offer nothing at all save generic appeals to ridicule, willfully uninformed whataboutism and some truly inventive strawmen in lieu of a presumably less wasteful use of your time. Frankly I’m not sure what’s funnier, that you should fail so completely it feels deliberate, or that you beat someone else to the punch.
    Your poor posting is a source of fun: I'm here to have my time wasted (up to a point). If you think my strawmen are inventive thank you, but its peculiar to read an ostensibly American poster describe the Founding Fathers or Lincoln as made of straw.

    You have failed to argue your points at all, so its just drivel. On the positive side good on you for getting the old thesaurus out and trying some new words. Try and work in bloviation or logorrhea next time .
    Jatte lambastes Calico Rat

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    Default Re: The latest anti-liberal rant thread (get your daily dose here)

    The great thing about self evident truth is, no matter how much its detractors bloviate to the point of logorrhea, it remains just the same. It’s good to see the Brits may have started to see through the bloviation and catch on as well, though I’m sorry to say this particular communist virus originated right here in America, not China or Russia. Given how uninformed said detractors seem to be on the issue despite it having been public knowledge for years, perhaps we Americans, especially the FBI, needed to do more than just publish it on the internet for anyone to see. Hindsight I guess. This morning I came across a recent report from the Telegraph. No digging required.
    A once small American movement that witnessed bursts of activity after individual cases of perceived police brutality has become the most prominent protest movement in Europe, and polarises societies wherever it goes. Unlike predecessors that often fell on the swords of their figureheads, this movement remains impervious to the accountability of a leader, because there are many. What we do know of the few founding members is that many are connected to radical Left organisations.

    An FBI report released in 2017 found that attacks on police in Baton Rouge, Louisiana, and Dallas, Texas were influenced by the Black Lives Matter movement, with 28 pe rcent of those who used deadly force against police officers motivated by a hatred of police. An unclassified FBI study following the Dallas cop-killing spree of 2016 that left 5 officers shot dead reported departments and individual officers increasingly taking the decision to stop proactive policing amid concerns that anti-police defiance fueled in part by movements like Black Lives Matter had become the “new norm.”

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/202...ical-movement/

    http://online.wsj.com/public/resourc...dsetReport.pdf
    It may be easy for skeptics to impugn the musings of a former prominent UKIP member, but it doesn’t really matter given that this stuff has been known long before the current crisis. That’s precisely why it’s so bizarre and disgusting to see self-described Marxists elevated to the mainstream by pandemic conditions, institutional complicity and a short public memory. To review:
    Quote Originally Posted by BLM Co-Founder in 2015
    The first thing, I think, is that we actually do have an ideological frame. Myself and Alicia in particular are trained organizers. We are trained Marxists. We are super-versed on, sort of, ideological theories. And I think that what we really tried to do is build a movement that could be utilized by many, many black folk. We don’t necessarily want to be the vanguard of this movement. I think we’ve tried to put out a political frame that’s about centering who we think are the most vulnerable amongst the black community, to really fight for all of our lives.

    And I do think that we have some clear direction around where we want to take this movement. I don’t believe it’s going to fizzle out. It just gets stronger, and we see it, right. We’ve seen after Sandra Bland. We’re seeing it now with the interruption of the Netroots Nation presidential forum.

    https://therealnews.com/stories/pcullors0722blacklives
    Quote Originally Posted by BLM Co-Founder in 2018
    I think, for me, learning and reading the literature that I was given, and then living the life I was living, and then feeling like, "I have all this language. I know what racism is. I know what capitalism is. I'm living this life. What do I do with it?" I think that was the next phase for me and I was hungry for activism. I didn't know that that's what it was called then, but I was hungry for organizing. I joined, I went to a social justice camp called NCCJ, the National Conference for Community and Justice.

    I went through their youth leadership program and became a youth leader, but it still wasn't enough for me. I was like, "Cool. I'm learning more, but how do I take down local government? How do I transform systems? How do I create new pathways?" That's when I came across the Labor Community Strategy Center and the Bus Rider's Union, which is a local civil rights organization ran by an old-school organizer activist from the 60s, 70s, Eric Mann.

    I was organized into the Bus Rider's Union and I spent eleven years there where I really learned my organizing ... was trained as an organizer, base builder, someone that transforms systems. I mean, really that organization gave me my foundation. Then, I went off to start Dignity and Power Now, my local organization that took on the sheriff's department. And then a year later, I would be one of the co-founders of Black Lives Matter.

    https://www.aclu.org/podcast/patriss...es-matter-ep-4
    Quote Originally Posted by The Labor/Community Strategy Center
    The Labor/Community Strategy Center is an urban experiment to root grassroots organizing focusing in Black and Latino communities with deep historical ties to the long history of anti-colonial anti-imperialist pro-communist resistance to the U.S. empire. We teach and study history of the Indigenous rebellions against the initial European genocidal invasions, the Great Slave Haitian Revolution of the 1790s, the Great Slave Rebellions that won the U.S. civil war for the racist north as explained in W.E.B. DuBois’ Black Reconstruction in America. We appreciate the work of the U.S. Communist Party especially Black communists Harry Hayward, the African Blood Brotherhood and Cyril Briggs, Paul Robeson, Claudia Jones, Du Bois, Ben Davis, William L. Patterson, and Lorraine Hansberry. We applaud the great work of the Black Panther Party, the American Indian Movement, Young Lords, Brown Berets, and the great revolutionary rainbow experiments of the 1970s. We also have roots in the new communist movement of the 1970s and 1980s especially the August 29th Movement, I Work Kuen, Congress of African People/Revolutionary Communist League (and Amiri Baraka) and their merger into the League of Revolutionary Struggle. Eric Mann, a member of the ATM and later LRS, was the lead organizer of the U.A.W. Campaign to Keep GM Van Nuys Open, a state-wide organizer for the Jesse Jackson for President Campaign in 1984 and 1988 and an elected leader of the UAW New Directions Movement led by Jerry Tucker.

    Eric Mann is a veteran of the Congress of Racial Equality, Newark Community Union Project, Students for a Democratic Society, the United Auto Workers New Directions Movement, and now director of the Labor/Community Strategy Center and host of KPFK’s Voices from the Frontlines.

    https://web.archive.org/web/20180817...tag/eric-mann/
    Quote Originally Posted by About Eric Mann
    Mann has been identified as instrumental in shaping the environmental justice movement in the U.S.[4] He is also founder of the Labor/Community Strategy Center in Los Angeles, California and has been its director for 25 years. In addition, Mann is founder and co-chair of the Bus Riders Union, identifying what is now called “transit racism” and resulting in a precedent-setting civil rights lawsuit, Labor Community Strategy Center et al. v. MTA.

    When SDS splintered into three groups in 1969, Mann, then a leader in the SDS faction, the Weathermen (Weather Underground), adopted the Revolutionary Youth Movement’s belief that violent "direct action," a euphemism for terrorism, should be used as a tactic to dismantle the group's perceived power centers of “US imperialism”.[20] Mann and 20 others were arrested in September 1969 for participation in a direct action against the Harvard Center for International Affairs, which the Revolutionary Youth Movement saw as a university-sponsored institution for counter-insurgency.[14] [21] Mann and 24 other Weathermen were charged with conspiracy to commit murder after two bullets were fired through a window of the police headquarters on November 8, 1969. Mann surrendered to the police on four counts stemming from the November 8 incident: conspiracy to commit murder, assault with intent to commit murder, promotion of anarchy, and threatening.[22] Mann was sentenced to two years in prison of which he spent 18 months in Billerica, Deer Island, and Concord State Prison (with 40 days in solitary confinement).[20] He was released in July 1971.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Mann
    Quote Originally Posted by About The Weather Underground Organization
    The FBI classified the WUO as a domestic terrorist group,[5] with revolutionary positions characterized by black power and opposition to the Vietnam War.[2] The WUO took part in domestic attacks such as the jailbreak of Timothy Leary in 1970.[6][7] The "Days of Rage" was the WUO's first riot in October 1969 in Chicago, timed to coincide with the trial of the Chicago Seven. In 1970, the group issued a "Declaration of a State of War" against the United States government under the name "Weather Underground Organization".

    In the 1970s, the WUO conducted a bombing campaign targeting government buildings and several banks. Some attacks were preceded by evacuation warnings, along with threats identifying the particular matter that the attack was intended to protest. Three members of the group were killed in an accidental Greenwich Village townhouse explosion, but none were killed in any of the bombings. The WUO communiqué issued in connection with the bombing of the United States Capitol on March 1, 1971 indicated that it was "in protest of the U.S. invasion of Laos". The WUO asserted that its May 19, 1972 bombing of the Pentagon was "in retaliation for the U.S. bombing raid in Hanoi". The WUO announced that its January 29, 1975 bombing of the United States Department of State building was "in response to the escalation in Vietnam".[8][9]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weather_Underground
    Quote Originally Posted by BLM Official Position on Israel
    The policy platform titled A Vision for Black Lives, is a wide-spanning document that was drafted by more than 50 organizations known as the Movement for Black Lives. It goes beyond criminal justice and touches on many issues including education and economics.

    In the Invest/Divest section of the platform, the group criticizes the US government for providing military aid to Israel.

    “The US justifies and advances the global war on terror via its alliance with Israel and is complicit in the genocide taking place against the Palestinian people,” the platform says. “Israel is an apartheid state with over 50 laws on the books that sanction discrimination against the Palestinian people.”

    This characterization drew ire from pro-Israel commentators, and in the week since its release many have penned op-eds and statements condemning the movement.
    On his personal Medium page, the CEO of the Anti-Defamation League Jonathan Greenblatt wrote that, while he agreed with the majority of the document, he called the treatment of Israel “one-sided” and “unfair”.

    “We categorically reject the document’s criticism of the United States and Israel,” he wrote. “It’s repellent and completely inaccurate to label Israel’s policy as ‘genocide’.”

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...israel-critics
    Another activist tied between the need to “abolish the police” to abolishing “the Zionistic state of Israel” and “the United States government,” to cheers from the crowd.
    Also speaking at the event was a pro-North Korean activist, who said: “I believe that within our lifetime, Palestine will be yours again and Korea will be one again! The United States of America and all of its puppet governments will be no more!”

    At another “Day of Rage” event in Washington, DC, protesters linked Black Lives Matter and the Palestinian cause, chanting “Israel, we know you, you murder children, too.”

    The march, from the Lincoln Memorial to the Capitol building, was led by a Harvard student, Christian Tabash, who read a poem about Israel’s crimes against Palestinian Muslims, according to the Washington Examiner. The poem referred to Israel as “puppet master of continents,” an age-old conspiracy theory that Jews run the world.

    https://www.timesofisrael.com/at-bro...israel-and-us/
    When we’ve reached a point where the Vice President of the US is pressured on national TV to embrace this insurgency, it’s a problem, no matter how badly those who benefit from it might want to call it fake news.

    Edit: I thought that Community Strategy commie puke sounded familiar. Lo and behold, virulent racist turned preeminent journalist and educator, Nikole Hannah-Jones, is the propagandist pumping this debunked poison into American schools:
    Quote Originally Posted by Nikole Hannah-Jones
    Dear Editor:
    1 was shocked and disgusted when I read Fred Kelly's article in the November 9 issue of the Observer. What responsible editor would print an article that applauds and dignifies the white race's rape, plunder, and genocide of a whole race of people?

    I find it hard to believe that any member of the white race can have the audacity and hypocrisy to call any other culture savage. The white race is the biggest murderer, rapist, pil- lager, and thief of the modern world.

    Europeans have colo- nized and destroyed the indigenous populations on every conti- nent of this planet. They have committed genocide against cul- tures that have never offended them in their greed and insa- tiable desire to control and dominate every non-white culture.
    Christopher Columbus and those like him were no difi'erent then Hitler . The crimes they committed were unnecessarily cruel and can only be described as aets of the devil. Africans had been to the Americas long before Columbus or any Europeans. The difference is that Africans had the decency and respect for human life to learn from the Native Americans and trade technology with them. The pyramids of the Aztecs and the great stone heads of the Olmecs are lasting manum- nets to the friendship of these two peoples. But as David Walker wrote in his Appeal in 1829, the white men acted "more like devils than accountable men...whites have always been an unjust. jealous, unmerciful, avaricious, and blood· thirsty set of beings, always seeking after power and uuthori- ty." It was not enough for whites to come to the Americas and learn, they looked upon the native people as Inferior and a people to be annihilated. Their lasting monument was the destruction and enslavement of two races of people.

    Using Christianity as their excuse, the white race denied the native people their humanity. Not only did they rape and murder the indigenous peoples of America. but they killed ofT many more by introducing diseases which came from filth and uncleanliness to the native people. The white race used deceit and trickery, warfare and rape, to steal the land from the peo- ple that had lived here for thousands and thousands of years. Over and over again whites made peace treaties with the Native Americans telling them that if they moved just this one last time and gave up their land to the greedy settlers just this one last time they would never have to move again. It was common knowledge that the white man's word could not be trusted.

    Even today, the descendants of these savage people pump drugs and guns into the Balck community, pack Black people into the squalor ol' segregated urban ghettos. and continue ot be bloodsuckers in our communites. Yos, it was Columbus that set the platforms for these racist American institutions. A devil calling someone a savage is like the pot calling the kettln black.

    But after everything that those barbaric devils did, I do not hate them or their descendants. I understand that because of some lacking, they needed ot eonstantly prove their superiori- ty. Kelly felt threatened by NASA-NO's exposm·e of' the true Columbus, so he felt it necessary to degrade their whole cul- ture to maintain his security. Fred Kelly, I pity you for feeling that just because you are white and Christian, you can celtl- brate the destruction of another human being. In closing, a famous American, who was beat down by memers of the chris- tian society, once said "Why can't we all just get ulong?" Why? because white America's dream is colored America's night- mare. To Kelly I say: It does not t'eel good to have your cui· ture put under a microscope, does it?

    http://www.archives.nd.edu/Observer/...21_v27_061.pdf
    Quote Originally Posted by Call them the 1619 riots
    There is a kind of despair, both angry and frightened, haunting the public mind today. After all, if the problem’s in our DNA, there’s precious little we can do about it. Let’s not kid ourselves. The rioters who commit the violence drew one conclusion from that premise: If justice is out of the question, the next best thing is payback, snatching from the oppressor’s hand whatever loot they can.

    The radicals aren’t far behind with their politics of “anti-racism” — a more or less permanent system of racial spoils, protected by speech codes banning criticism as racist “hate speech.”

    The alternative is to reconsider the premise: America is not systemically racist, but is a republic devoted, however imperfectly, to the truth that all men are created equal.

    https://nypost.com/2020/06/19/call-them-the-1619-riots/
    Jones’ rebuttal was to call the explicit association between her propaganda campaign and civil strife “an honor.”
    Violent Protest and the Intelligentsia
    Scholar Gary Saul Morson sees disturbing parallels between Russia before the Revolution and contemporary America.

    The similarities between this week’s riots and the Los Angeles riots of 1992 are obvious. Both were occasioned by appalling video images, and both divided the nation along partisan and ideological lines. The differences between the two events, however, are more revealing. The violence in 1992 came after a court verdict; the beating and arrest of Rodney King had happened more than a year before. This year’s riots came within days of George Floyd’s killing by Minneapolis officers. The riots of 1992 were mostly confined to poor and working-class areas of Los Angeles. This week saw mayhem all over America, and in Los Angeles, New York and elsewhere the rioters targeted wealthy streets and neighborhoods.

    But perhaps the most striking difference is the rationalization, and sometimes full-throated defense, of violence from left-wing elites: the glorification of havoc, the vilification of cops and their middle-class admirers, highfalutin defenses of vandalism. The sense of revolution and class warfare was everywhere this week: the cognoscenti and underclass arrayed against the petty bourgeois shop owners; the elite and those they claim to represent against everybody else.

    Gary Saul Morson says he has no special insight regarding police actions and the death of George Floyd. But he does have a provocative thesis about America’s current political moment: “To me it’s astonishingly like late 19th-, early 20th-century Russia, when basically the entire educated class felt you simply had to be against the regime or some sort of revolutionary.”

    Mr. Morson, 72, is a professor of Russian literature at Northwestern University and an accomplished interpreter of Fyodor Dostoevsky, Anton Chekhov and Leo Tolstoy. Obviously we haven’t arrived at anything like what Lenin called a “revolutionary situation,” Mr. Morson says, but we have arrived at a situation in which well-intentioned liberal people often can’t bring themselves to say that lawless violence is wrong.

    The lesson seems highly relevant today. “When you’re dragged along into something you don’t really believe yourself—because otherwise you are identified with those evil people, and your primary identity is being a ‘good guy,’ not like those people—you will wind up supporting things you know to be wrong. And unless there is some moral force that will stop it, the slide will accelerate.”

    But, he says, “we have a major depression, we have terrible fear from the illness, and now we have mass riots in the street, which our leaders do not seem to know how to handle. That’s a very rapid slide from only a year ago. And there’s no reason to think it will slow down. The slide could well continue.”

    And history can unfold in unpredictable ways. Who would have guessed 20 years ago, he asks, that the First Amendment’s free-speech guarantee would become passé on the liberal left? “I used to get a laugh from students by quoting a Soviet citizen I talked to once. He said to me, ‘Of course we have freedom of speech. We just don’t allow people to lie.’ That used to get a laugh! They don’t laugh anymore.”

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/violent...ia-11591400422
    From whence shall we expect the approach of danger? Shall some trans-Atlantic military giant step the earth and crush us at a blow? Never. All the armies of Europe and Asia...could not by force take a drink from the Ohio River or make a track on the Blue Ridge in the trial of a thousand years. No, if destruction be our lot we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of free men we will live forever or die by suicide. - Abe Lincoln the Cancelled
    Last edited by Lord Thesaurian; July 05, 2020 at 10:48 AM.
    Of these facts there cannot be any shadow of doubt: for instance, that civil society was renovated in every part by Christian institutions; that in the strength of that renewal the human race was lifted up to better things-nay, that it was brought back from death to life, and to so excellent a life that nothing more perfect had been known before, or will come to be known in the ages that have yet to be. - Pope Leo XIII

  9. #789
    Ludicus's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: The latest anti-liberal rant thread (get your daily dose here)

    Quote Originally Posted by sumskilz View Post
    It is essentially a religious belief that comes out of a lineage of explicitly religious philosophy,whether or not one personally associates it with belief in a creator or not.
    Well, you are our anthropologist resident. But, generally speaking,for religious people, the so-called natural rights are of religious and divine origin. Inside Christian religious communities, there is no general agreement on what the human rights are. Let's keep in mind the Protestant rejection of natural law.

    Philosophers often take a skeptical stance. For Jeremy Bentham, "Natural rights are simple nonsense: natural and imprescriptible rights, rhetorical nonsense-nonsense upon stilts. But this rhetorical nonsense ends in the old strain of mischievous nonsense: for immediately the list of these pretended natural rights is given, and those are so expressed as to present to view legal rights. And of these rights, whatever they are, there is not, it seems, any one of which any government can, upon occasion whatever, abrogate the smallest particle.

    All rights are created by laws. It's worth quoting Bentham,

    "Right, the substantive right, is child of law: from laws of nature, fancied and invented by poets, rhetoricians, and dealers in moral and intellectual poisons, come imaginary rights, a bastard brood of monsters, gorgons and chimaeras dire. And thus it is that from legal rights, the offspring of law, and friends of peace, come anti-legal rights, the mortal enemies of law, the subverters of government, and assassins of security".

    For Alastair McIntyre: "There are no such a thing as rights, and belief in them is one with belief in witches and unicorns....every attempt to give good reasons for believing that there are such rights has failed. The eighteenth- century philosophical defenders of natural rights sometimes suggest that the assertions which state that men possess them are self-evident truths; but we know there are no self- evident truths".

    Let's go back to the US, where many people believe that all human rights come from a supreme, unknown being. The believers should be worried by the fact that when the supreme being gave them these natural rights, he allowed slavery until 1865. Following this reasoning, it seems God keeps changing his mind, because the list of human rights keeps constantly changing. So, let's try to avoid derive rights from a supreme being, in the U.S. women had no right to vote until 1920.
    -----
    As Israeli historian Harari points out,

    "No one was lying when, in 2011, the UN demanded that the Libyan government respect the human rights of its citizens, even though the UN, Libya, and human rights are all figments of our fertile imaginations"

    For Harari, the success of Homo sapiens is based on the power of collective myth-making. He says,

    "Thanks to the Cognitive Revolution, Homo sapiens acquired the ability to say, "The lion is the guardian spirit of our tribe". This mental leap enabled cooperation among strangers: Two Catholics who have never met can nevertheless go together on crusade or pool funds to build a hospital because they both believe that God was incarnated in human flesh and allowed Himself to be crucified to redeem our sins.
    Every social construct, then, is a kind of religion: a declaration of universal human rights is not a manifesto, or a program, but the expression of a benign delusion; an activity like using money, or obeying a stoplight, is a collective fantasy. It's like the weak force in physic-which is weak, but still strong enough to hold the entire universe together.
    Fiction has enabled us not merely to imagine things, but to do so collectively. We can weave common myths such as the biblical creation story, the Dreamtime myths of Aboriginal Australians, and the nationalist myths of modern states. Such myths give Sapiens the unprecedented ability to cooperate flexibly in large number".

    -----
    Quote Originally Posted by Menelik_I View Post
    Europeans are being judged for things like "500 years of slavery of the black people"...Since they can't undo history, they have to punish those in the present"
    Who is being punished? statues? we are not talking about the Halloween massacre in Luanda, 1962, the killing of José Van Dúnem e Sita Valles, among others, the violence between MPLA and UNITA supporters, or the tragedy of Africa's greatest exodus of a singular population group in Africa in the modern history.

    But in fact,things like 500 years of slavery of the black people are not to be forgotten.It's unfair to judge the past by the standards of present, but there are lessons to be learned from our common past.
    On a side note: do you have any idea how much your first President suffered, merely because he was married to a white woman?

    Last edited by Ludicus; July 05, 2020 at 02:02 PM.
    Il y a quelque chose de pire que d'avoir une âme perverse. C’est d'avoir une âme habituée
    Charles Péguy

    Every human society must justify its inequalities: reasons must be found because, without them, the whole political and social edifice is in danger of collapsing”.
    Thomas Piketty

  10. #790

    Default Re: The latest anti-liberal rant thread (get your daily dose here)

    Jewish/christian moral basis, are the base western society morals culturally whenever you like it or not. That includes human rights declaration.


    But in fact,things like 500 years of slavery of the black people are not to be forgotten.It's unfair to judge the past by the standards of present, but there are lessons to be learned from our common past.
    This is universal. Not a particular country nor a particular people with a particular skin color.
    Last edited by Knight of Heaven; July 05, 2020 at 05:02 PM.

  11. #791
    Menelik_I's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: The latest anti-liberal rant thread (get your daily dose here)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ludicus View Post
    Who is being punished? statues?
    The point is that they will NOT STOP AT STATUES, in fact is you read social media comments or bother to read opinion pieces the statues or corporate virtue signaling is seen like a lot of empty gesturing, the next topic is reparation or bloodshed.

    You first erase the history, then you erase the people.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ludicus View Post
    we are not talking about the Halloween massacre in Luanda, 1962, the killing of José Van Dúnem e Sita Valles, among others, the violence between MPLA and UNITA supporters, or the tragedy of Africa's greatest exodus of a singular population group in Africa in the modern history.
    Jose Van Dunem and Sita Valles had it coming, their pawn Nito Alves was preparing a coup under the premise that the government had excess of half-whites and whites, their number was never more than 2% of total population, while at the same time promising to the be ruthless against the blacks who "sold out", that after more than 100.000 where run off the country at gun point and lost everything. They took him seriously and acted first.

    Post revolution purges are just business as usual among communists, I feel sorry for the innocent civilians, but feel nothing commies suffering lead poisoning.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ludicus View Post
    But in fact,things like 500 years of slavery of the black people are not to be forgotten.It's unfair to judge the past by the standards of present, but there are lessons to be learned from our common past.
    First it wasn't all blacks that suffered slavery, if you are an African living now in Africa the chances that you are descendant of people who suffered from being slave in America are near zero, that you are descendant of people that were victim of slave raids and or people that made slave raids to sell to the Europeans are roughly equal.

    History has to be based on perspective and proportion, this sudo-fact is used to create hatred between blacks and whites.
    First lesson of the real lesson of slavery is that blacks can be tyranical to blacks, but since we were sold that only whites are colonial exploiter, Africa made a continental picachu face when our first leaders turned into dictators, with some explaining it from the stand point that it is the white man fault

    Quote Originally Posted by Ludicus View Post
    On a side note: do you have any idea how much your first President suffered, merely because he was married to a white woman?

    He got more from black Angolans for marrying into the enemy, as there was a limited culture of high class Africans men, especially of partial European ancestry, marrying European ladies between the 1910 to 1940, because before the 1910 European woman wouldn't bear children due to poor medicine so up to half of the local Portuguese where partially African, so Neto taking up a white wife was not so shocking because people that looked like him did it. It was becoming a rarity by the time of Neto because it was now possible for European man to have European wives, but still his kids would be seen as normal by Europeans. Low class black marrying an European lady of course was not possible because it was an European state and white were by definition of high social status for being the dominant class, as it happened in all the empires before.

    Blacks in contrast seem the kids from interracial marriage as threat and many hate them with a passion.

    The Black Angolans felt betrayed that Neto talked big game against colonizers and then slept with one, same issue with the second president daughter, who is half Russian, who is told to shut up for not being "full blooded African", Angolans can be pretty xenophobic and this has nothing to do with slavery because the the Coastal tribes from which the Van Dunem and MPLA are from were business partners with the Portuguese in the slave trade.


    Actually you have now an "anti-racist" movement in Angola that blames all the country problem on the 2% of half-Europeans, who are some form of secret government, they want to force them to renounce their white ancestry for 500 years of Racist Slavery and declare themselves black with "melamine deficiency".

    Lucio Lara, Neto vice president, was denied the presidency for being half-European despite being the second in the succession line when Neto died, because the black populace would not take accept it and the Party was not ready to face another racist uprising like the one Nito Alves and Sita Vales tried in 77. Even today some people complain if you have more than 2 half-european minister in a government that has 80+ ministers equivalent posts.

    You don't know how it feels like to be seen as "colonial left-over", hated for your skin color and told to renounce your ancestry. Some tribes even target their half-European members to be married with especially dark person to "clean the blood", and current Black Identity movement have a "colorism" theory which denounce mix kids for being "privileged", read white", and thus perpetuating racism inside the black race because "people give more value to light skin", they call them "rape kids" because the only reason the first Mulato was created was by rape of a black slave and all those created after are rape kids if the male is white because he was using his white privilege.

    Sorry for being passionate, but you inverted the sense of the picture.
    Last edited by Menelik_I; July 05, 2020 at 05:43 PM.
    « Le courage est toujours quelque chose de saint, un jugement divin entre deux idées. Défendre notre cause de plus en plus vigoureusement est conforme à la nature humaine. Notre suprême raison d’être est donc de lutter ; on ne possède vraiment que ce qu’on acquiert en combattant. »Ernst Jünger
    La Guerre notre Mère (Der Kampf als inneres Erlebnis), 1922, trad. Jean Dahel, éditions Albin Michel, 1934

  12. #792
    Vanoi's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: The latest anti-liberal rant thread (get your daily dose here)

    Quote Originally Posted by Menelik_I View Post
    The point is that they will NOT STOP AT STATUES, in fact is you read social media comments or bother to read opinion pieces the statues or corporate virtue signaling is seen like a lot of empty gesturing, the next topic is reparation or bloodshed.

    You first erase the history, then you erase the people.
    First off thats just a slippery slope fallacy. Second, tearing down statues doesn't erase history.
    Last edited by Vanoi; July 05, 2020 at 06:34 PM.

  13. #793
    Menelik_I's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: The latest anti-liberal rant thread (get your daily dose here)

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanoi View Post
    First off thats just a slippery slope fallacy. Second, tearing down statues doesn't erase history.
    Politics is made of slippery slope: You present your more appealing and cheap initiative first to get power and foothold, then you poison pill.

    Calling it a fallacy is not an argument.

    Edit:

    Also it is not a slipery slop argument is THE SAY that they want reparations and bloodshed next:

    https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...s-reparations/

    https://nypost.com/2020/06/25/bet-fo...pling-statues/

    Johnson, who recently called for the government to provide $14 trillion in reparations to the descendants of slavery, told FOX News Wednesday that the movement to take down statues, cancel TV shows and fire professors is meaningless to help the black community.


    If your history is not part of your environment, be it in statues, street names, building or public praise of it, it doesn't exist as a socially relevant information.

    Even if in the strict form it is "not erased"

    Also funny argument you are making here because the removal of the statues is based on erasing any other reason the Confederacy fought the war and reducing it to the meme that it was a war to "defend slavery", which is like claiming that Germany fought in WW2 because of the Holocaust.
    Last edited by Menelik_I; July 05, 2020 at 07:48 PM.
    « Le courage est toujours quelque chose de saint, un jugement divin entre deux idées. Défendre notre cause de plus en plus vigoureusement est conforme à la nature humaine. Notre suprême raison d’être est donc de lutter ; on ne possède vraiment que ce qu’on acquiert en combattant. »Ernst Jünger
    La Guerre notre Mère (Der Kampf als inneres Erlebnis), 1922, trad. Jean Dahel, éditions Albin Michel, 1934

  14. #794
    Vanoi's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: The latest anti-liberal rant thread (get your daily dose here)

    Quote Originally Posted by Menelik_I View Post
    Politics is made of slippery slope: You present your more appealing and cheap initiative first to get power and foothold, then you poison pill.
    Thats and you know it. There's nothing indicating at all removing statues will lead to outright killing and genocide. Its slippery slope fear mongering at best with nothing to support.

    Calling it a fallacy is not an argument.
    You don't have one though. You just made a while claim with nothing backing it at all.

    Edit:

    Also it is not a slipery slop argument is THE SAY that they want reparations and bloodshed next:

    https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...s-reparations/

    https://nypost.com/2020/06/25/bet-fo...pling-statues/

    Johnson, who recently called for the government to provide $14 trillion in reparations to the descendants of slavery, told FOX News Wednesday that the movement to take down statues, cancel TV shows and fire professors is meaningless to help the black community.
    No its still slippery slope. Tabloids like the NY Post won't help you. There's also no majority for reparations nor legal basis to get any. And who is "they" that you describe? It sounds like a group.


    If your history is not part of your environment, be it in statues, street names, building or public praise of it, it doesn't exist as a socially relevant information.
    Statues are just statues. Taking them down doesn't stop people from reading about who they were. In fact there is a variety of ways to learn history that have nothing to do with statues.

    Also funny argument you are making here because the removal of the statues is based on erasing any other reason the Confederacy fought the war and reducing it to the meme that it was a war to "defend slavery", which is like claiming that Germany fought in WW2 because of the Holocaust.
    The did fight a war to defend slavery. My state of South Carolina who formed the Confederacy made that real clear in the secession document where they detailed exactly why they seceded from the United States.

    Those Confederate statues were built by sore losers who wanted to change the narrative of the Civil War in their favor all the while enacting Jim Crow and segregation across the South.

  15. #795

    Default Re: The latest anti-liberal rant thread (get your daily dose here)

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanoi View Post
    Thats and you know it. There's nothing indicating at all removing statues will lead to outright killing and genocide. Its slippery slope fear mongering at best with nothing to support.

    You don't have one though. You just made a while claim with nothing backing it at all.

    No its still slippery slope. Tabloids like the NY Post won't help you. There's also no majority for reparations nor legal basis to get any. And who is "they" that you describe? It sounds like a group.

    Statues are just statues. Taking them down doesn't stop people from reading about who they were. In fact there is a variety of ways to learn history that have nothing to do with statues.
    I'm reminded of when liberals lined up to insist that the denunciation of Confederate statues wouldn't act as a catalyst for the demonization/destruction of other icons. This was a view which I openly endorsed. Two years later, and the mob is defacing and tearing down monuments to Washington, Lincoln, Jefferson, Roosevelt, Grant, Columbus and even Christ. Leftist radicals and their liberal enablers constantly lie about their objectives to make their positions seem more electorally palatable. You can cry "slippery slope" till kingdom come for all I care. I'm not buying it anymore.

    The did fight a war to defend slavery. My state of South Carolina who formed the Confederacy made that real clear in the secession document where they detailed exactly why they seceded from the United States.

    Those Confederate statues were built by sore losers who wanted to change the narrative of the Civil War in their favor all the while enacting Jim Crow and segregation across the South.
    Nothing to disagree with here.
    Last edited by Cope; July 07, 2020 at 07:28 AM.



  16. #796
    alhoon's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: The latest anti-liberal rant thread (get your daily dose here)

    Quote Originally Posted by Abdülmecid I View Post
    It may sound harsh, but I find the author's belief [...] Personally, I don't approve of [...]
    Abdulmecid, this is a rant thread. For us conservatives to fume and talk about "kids these days!" and blow off steam and progressives to come here and call our views racist or how we don't understand what some people go through etc.
    Your post is too civilized.
    alhoon is not a member of the infamous Hoons: a (fictional) nazi-sympathizer KKK clan. Of course, no Hoon would openly admit affiliation to the uninitiated.
    "Angry Uncle Gordon" describes me well.
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    Default Re: The latest anti-liberal rant thread (get your daily dose here)

    Quote Originally Posted by Legio_Italica View Post
    An excellent piece from WSJ opinion that captures the fundamental, insidious anti-Americanism of cancel culture, as well as the unique threat posed by its support from the elites.
    Quote Originally Posted by Abdülmecid I View Post
    It may sound harsh, but ...
    Quote Originally Posted by Legio_Italica View Post
    All nations are founded on a mixture of legend, luck and fact. ...
    Could you guys please consider re-posting these indeed thoughtful and good posts in the Floyd thread? That thread could use some well grounded, impersonal and coolheaded arguments and debate about ethnogenesis etc.


    My take: The black people of USA go through a kind of nation-building process. They have their own culture, art, traditions and in some cases even language. They now form diverging morals from much of the USA. Many black people are for years using some harsh words for people born with dark skin that are not considered "black" people. In USA today, you can be of dark skin and not be perceived as a "true" black person by the black people that have embraced the new culture.
    I don't think this is inherently a bad thing, but I fear it will lead to bad things and this nation-within-USA building arguably started from very bad things, and I don't just mean slavery (many nations were enslaved including much of Africa, Korea, Latin America, whatever the Mongols enslaved etc) but racism. Black people were ostracized for centuries so of course they formed closed groups - at times they were by law required to do that - that slowly started forming their own traditions.


    And another thing: In my sister's wedding, I saw the painting of a saint, I think either St George or St Demetrius, as a man of very dark skin (although with near-east features, not sub-Saharan). Nobody here cared. I doubt most even noticed.
    That's because we don't feel "threatened" by angry people that call us racists for what other people with the same skin color did to them.

    _______________________________________________________________________________________________

    @Legio and @Cyclops:
    Both of you make nice and solid arguments IMO. I wouldn't say either of you is completely right or wrong. They are both opinions grounded in reality and IMO they are both mostly right. Most of what you both say (about what's going on and why, not about the quality of each other's posts) is indeed true.
    I happen to agree 70% with Legio, but that doesn't mean Cyclops is wrong. Indeed the pandemic, the PotUS-spread divisiveness and mostly, the inequality heavily contribute to... the trained marxists doing their new revolution.

    They are Marxists, what do you expect them to do? They strongly dislike income inequality (with its good and its bad) and they have a ton of reasons to dislike racial discrimination and want a classless society. And they believe in revolutions - cultural in this case.
    Do I agree with them? Mostly no but there is income inequality and very low social mobility.
    Do I believe racism is as bad as BLM say it is? Not everywhere in USA. But USA is big. In some places, yes it is. And in the police.

    Etc.
    Last edited by alhoon; July 06, 2020 at 02:38 AM.
    alhoon is not a member of the infamous Hoons: a (fictional) nazi-sympathizer KKK clan. Of course, no Hoon would openly admit affiliation to the uninitiated.
    "Angry Uncle Gordon" describes me well.
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  18. #798
    Vanoi's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: The latest anti-liberal rant thread (get your daily dose here)

    Quote Originally Posted by Cope View Post
    I'm reminded of when liberals lined up to insist that the denunciation of Confederate statues wouldn't act as a catalyst for the demonization/destruction of other icons. This was a view which I openly endorsed. Two years later, and the mob is defacing and tearing down monuments to Washington, Lincoln, Jefferson, Roosevelt, Grant, Columbus and even Christ. Leftists radicals and their liberal enablers constantly lie about their objectives to make their positions seem more electorally palatable. You can cry "slippery slope" till kingdom come for all I care. I'm not buying it anymore.
    Oh i'll keep calling it what is it is. Slippery slope. Vandalizing statues is still far far away from outright killing and genocide which is what Menelik implied in his post. Maybe you should read my post again to understand why i said slippery slope?

    And give me a break. Conservatives are taking full advantage of this statue issue to try and paint an entire movement as un-American and in the words of Legio and you, "cultural marxists." Reality is that only a small minority of people are vandalizing statues related to the men you mentioned or even want them taken down. You're just making mountains put of mole hills.

  19. #799

    Default Re: The latest anti-liberal rant thread (get your daily dose here)

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    Could you guys please consider re-posting these indeed thoughtful and good posts in the Floyd thread? That thread could use some well grounded, impersonal and coolheaded arguments and debate about ethnogenesis etc.
    If a good faith discussion of BLM and Marxism in the context of current events naturally develops, I’ll be glad to join in where appropriate. I won’t hold my breath in the meantime. The head-in-sand opportunistic partisanship that has whitewashed an organization founded by self-described “trained Marxists” with “an ideological frame and clear direction” into a modern day Southern Christian Leadership Conference has become a matter of institutionalized propaganda at this point, and it’s not going anywhere any time soon. The same people who insist Trump is running Nazi sleeper cells through his Twitter feed now openly demand fealty to Marxism from the VP of the United States.

    I have minimal interest in endlessly compiling evidence that has been freely available online forever for the sake of people who have no interest in considering it in the first place. I’ve done it for the last 4 years and I’m too blackpilled to care as much anymore.
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    Of these facts there cannot be any shadow of doubt: for instance, that civil society was renovated in every part by Christian institutions; that in the strength of that renewal the human race was lifted up to better things-nay, that it was brought back from death to life, and to so excellent a life that nothing more perfect had been known before, or will come to be known in the ages that have yet to be. - Pope Leo XIII

  20. #800
    Vanoi's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: The latest anti-liberal rant thread (get your daily dose here)

    You haven't posted one shred of evidence showing the BLM is a Marxist movement. You are using an old conservative tactic to discredit them. Thought McCarthyism was dead but i guess not. Not the first time either conservatives used this tactic against black political movements. J Edgar Hoover used this tactic against MLK Jr. and the civil rights movement in general.

    Not surprised though. Conservative tactics never change.

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