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Thread: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: the Seljuks of Rum (and the Ottomans)

  1. #81
    dogukan's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: the Seljuks of Rum (and the Ottomans)

    Oghafgadpıjsa haha well, well, well...I have never seen such a detailed work on an Ottoman Army modelling. You know, Hessam you and the other guys should mail the Turkish Cultural Ministry to pay for your work.
    This here is some really valuable stuff.
    Well done and thank you very much.

    I am more of a fan of the early and high period but those late period units, gosh. We need some competing Safavids to those now!!


    Quote Originally Posted by Danishmend View Post
    I am not sure about bill but hooks are called "kanca" and pollaxe/halberds are called "baltalı kargı" in Turkish, which literally means "lance with axe". There is also "tığ-ı teber" (I guess this one is Persian) that has similar meaning.

    This type of axes (berdiche?) are called "Aybalta" (crescent-shaped axe).
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    Isn't it called Teber?
    Last edited by dogukan; June 09, 2017 at 09:39 AM.
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  2. #82
    Visarion's Avatar Alexandros
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    Default Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: the Seljuks of Rum (and the Ottomans)

    Yeah that would... chest discs... that's it and the specific coif

  3. #83
    Visarion's Avatar Alexandros
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    Default Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: the Seljuks of Rum (and the Ottomans)

    Quote Originally Posted by zsimmortal View Post
    Mirror armour, char aina, krug, etc. are all 16th century and factions are designed with that 15th c limit in organization and dress. Therefore, you won't see that here. Now, maybe some chest disks could be used more, but no krug.

  4. #84

    Default Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: the Seljuks of Rum (and the Ottomans)

    Quote Originally Posted by You_Guess_Who View Post
    No. That was sarcasm_pt just incredibly baffled at Visarion trying to correct him saying the "Polearm Janissary" into "Siege Janissary" as if Visarion is the one working the Ottoman roster.
    Thank you.

    And merely a suggestion. Notice the question mark.

  5. #85

    Default Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: the Seljuks of Rum (and the Ottomans)

    Quote Originally Posted by dogukan View Post
    Isn't it called Teber?


    Yes, they are also called Teber, there is no sharp distinction between aybalta and teber it seems.

  6. #86
    Visarion's Avatar Alexandros
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    Default Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: the Seljuks of Rum (and the Ottomans)

    Quote Originally Posted by dogukan View Post
    Oghafgadpıjsa haha well, well, well...I have never seen such a detailed work on an Ottoman Army modelling. You know, Hessam you and the other guys should mail the Turkish Cultural Ministry to pay for your work.
    This here is some really valuable stuff.
    Well done and thank you very much.

    I am more of a fan of the early and high period but those late period units, gosh. We need some competing Safavids to those now!!





    Isn't it called Teber?
    That would be Teber Yeniceri, Teber Yerli Yeniceri, Teber Mustahfiz, Teber Hisarli or Teber Yerli Kulu... smth like Tabardaryya... yeah that would do I guess...

    https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...issary&f=false
    Last edited by Visarion; June 09, 2017 at 12:12 PM.

  7. #87
    Visarion's Avatar Alexandros
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    Default Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: the Seljuks of Rum (and the Ottomans)

    @ hessam

    With all respect with the work done so far if you are willing to enlarge the roster you should take in consideration this book.

    https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...issary&f=false

    Edit: It's from the older days but it tells a story because later days were better documented and because of the Ottoman conservatorism.

    Basically I would add more types of Janissary:

    Beylik Ocaklari

    Cemaat Ocaklari

    Sekban Ocaklari

    http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/...anissary_corps

    And also their field and siege versions simply because there were so many ortas and they were organised separatly and used distinctive gear just like the Roman Cohors system. The current situation is limited. They should give a all round possibility of tactic use.
    Last edited by Visarion; June 09, 2017 at 12:34 PM.

  8. #88

    Default Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: the Seljuks of Rum (and the Ottomans)

    Quote Originally Posted by Visarion View Post
    That would be Teber Yeniceri, Teber Yerli Yeniceri or Teber Yerli Kulu... smth like Tabardaryya... yeah that would do I guess...

    https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...issary&f=false
    The current names are good, maybe yeniçeri billmen can be renamed.

    As for "yerli kulu", the term was used to refer to garrison Janissaries as you can see, which is irrelevant.

  9. #89

    Default Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: the Seljuks of Rum (and the Ottomans)

    @hessam

    Maybe you can edit your Startpost with a little like that for some others better understanding:

    EARLY ERA

    Bodyguards
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 




    HIGH ERA

    Bodyguards
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 




    LATE ERA

    Bodyguards
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    Im more for avoiding this "Yeniçeri Archers" - in the one hand you call them like in turkish "Yeniçeri" and in the other hand you give them a english the "Archer" - Please call them directly like "Janissary Archers" or "Janissary Gunners" since many turkish members of this community clearly can see that you started to give some english touch on some turkish word like "Tüfenkcis" <---- What did you mean with that to be Honest

    @Visarion Stop replacing the "ı" with "i" !!!

  10. #90
    Visarion's Avatar Alexandros
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    Default Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: the Seljuks of Rum (and the Ottomans)

    My keybord is limited. Mobile phone.

    Anyway agree with Nebaki.

    Also your Late units are in fact mid High... there is a emblematic era that is not covered in this roster. That is what I am trying to say.

    Also there are so many more options for additional units including Early and High, as you said yourself the Janissary, Kapikulu and Sipahi and even Akinci and Timarli systems if not Azab too started in the mid 14th century. For late you can better represent the Janissary guild and sect, the ortas of the specific ocaks. Bodyguard Janissary (Beylik Ocaklari), Frontiersmen Janissary (Cemaat Ocaklari), Bulk Janissary, Suburbs and poor Farmlands (Sekban Ocaklari), Garrison Janissary (Yeli Kulu), Siege Janissary (Zerhli Nefer), Assault Janissary (Serdengecti). And of course sappers, connon crew, engineers, gunmen or Tufenkci. Most likely the siege Janissary combined all the three tactics, spear/polearm deffensive warfare, melee with axes, bardiches, maces and curved swords for agressive, shock actions or assault and the ranged traditional capabilities by using the bow and arrows while the Serdengecti made use solely of the sword and buckler in assault missions, surprise attacks. I have a list for the Early and High tiers as well if you want me to shate it with you. Not to confuse Solak that were Senior Janissary left wing foot guards of the Sultan with the rest of the ortas, these were basically the captains chosen by the Sultan himself able to wield the weapons with both hands, skilled in using the left hand as well, ambidexterity in other words. Peyk as well, missionaries. Also not to confuse the Kapikulu Infantry Palace Guards system with the Janissary garrisons, conscripts or voluntiers where I include the Bosnian Yerli Kulu or with the militia or simply the bulk or even farm horsemen provided by each Timarli or the tribal gathering of raiding parties.
    Last edited by Visarion; June 09, 2017 at 03:04 PM.

  11. #91

    Default Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: the Seljuks of Rum (and the Ottomans)

    Quote Originally Posted by Visarion View Post

    Also your Late units are in fact mid High... there is a emblematic era that is not covered in this roster. That is what I am trying to say.

    Let´s wait for a answer from hessam.

  12. #92
    Visarion's Avatar Alexandros
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    Default Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: the Seljuks of Rum (and the Ottomans)

    I would suggest due to the fact that this is such an important faction adding four tiers, two major ones separated by a military reform by using the pre-marian and marian Roman units and reform system example only not for cohors but for ortas as this is in fact the same case and the Ottomans are the continuators of the Romans so Ghulam/Noker era and Janissary/Sipahi reforms in the mid High tier. From Ghazi and Muqti to Azap and Timarli and so on.
    Last edited by Visarion; June 09, 2017 at 03:19 PM.

  13. #93

    Default Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: the Seljuks of Rum (and the Ottomans)

    @Visarion

    Although I don't agree with your posts I respect your right to share your opinion, but please avoid overposting about a certain subject. The last two pages are full of your repetetive posts about unit names.

  14. #94
    Visarion's Avatar Alexandros
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    Default Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: the Seljuks of Rum (and the Ottomans)

    I see. Ty. Will do that. Over and out.

  15. #95
    hessam's Avatar Miles
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    Default Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: the Seljuks of Rum (and the Ottomans)

    @Nebaki... the part Turkish part English names were intentional just like Delis instead of Deliler, etc. They way I usually do this is I give the name or type of the equipment or weapon (Heavy, Archers, Horse Archer, Lancer, etc) in English for clarification but give the historical name of the unit in its own language. There are of course exceptions to that rule.

    @Visarion... Four tiers is unnecessary and indeed undersirable. The three tiers is part of the constitution of this mod. Also, I explained in my note after the main post that while Yeniceris are set as late units they actually start in 1370s. Akincis, Timarlis, and Azaps already ARE in the 14th century (high era) roster. Finally, there were more than 100 Yeniceri ortas at the end of 15th century. I can't make different versions of Yeniceris based on where they were stationed, but rather how they fought and what weapons they used. There's one with polearm, one with bow (and swords and axes obviously), and one with guns. There's also the heavy Kapikulu infantry which technically is in the same group as Yeniceris, being an infantry unit of the Porte.

    p.s. And there are more than 50 units in this roster for God's sake and you think it's incomplete????

  16. #96
    Visarion's Avatar Alexandros
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    Default Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: the Seljuks of Rum (and the Ottomans)

    Yeah well I was hoping for a Roma Surrectum like system but for the ortas... that would have been something... oh well...

  17. #97

    Default Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: the Seljuks of Rum (and the Ottomans)

    @hessam

    I would really appreciate it when you can change the "Yeniçeri Tüfenkcis" into Tüfekçileri or even into Handgunners.

  18. #98
    Visarion's Avatar Alexandros
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    Default Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: the Seljuks of Rum (and the Ottomans)

    I revisited the roster and it's very good!

  19. #99

    Default Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: the Seljuks of Rum (and the Ottomans)

    Nice work Hessam! You've really outdone yourself. Regarding the name stuff, it's really a minor adjustment in the build so while it's noted it's really not a big deal.

    Also, Visarion, do you mean like the legion naming stuff, the stuff that is only in one faction of that mod? I mean the only faction with that many units would be the Earldoms but we've been moving away from that approach for a reason.

  20. #100

    Default Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: the Seljuks of Rum (and the Ottomans)

    The roaster looks fantastic to somebody who is not an expert of Turkish / Ottoman military.
    But two questions:
    Why some of the Nöker units have neon colours under their Armour? Will u change it? It reminds me of that Electric Boogaloo pic from the Spoof thread.
    Also i hope Nöker Foot Guards get shields so they can function as Melee Unit too.


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    Last edited by Locus_Devium; June 10, 2017 at 06:59 AM.

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