Public Research - Medieval Balkan Armies

[NikeBG]

As far as I see, it says "Рускьi опленежe на блъгарьi" (don't forget that... I don't know the English word... the "arc" above "ple"). Then again, I haven't studied old-Bulgarian (unfortunately, although it seems really interesting), so I might be wrong.

[phoenix[illusion]]

As far as I see, it says "Рускьi опленежe на блъгарьi" (don't forget that... I don't know the English word... the "arc" above "ple"). Then again, I haven't studied old-Bulgarian (unfortunately, although it seems really interesting), so I might be wrong.

i really don't know where did you get that "oplenezhe"
here's separate words, i think they should be like this:


Ruski


napajezhe (there's yat in the sentence, it could be napojezhe, it is certainly from word slavic word napad (attack)) but i think it's in written in Pluperfect (Pluskvamperfekt in Serbio-Croatian) which is often used in Slavic languages while telling stories.


na


Balgari

[NikeBG]

Seems I was mistaken. I thought the old-Bulgarian "Н", as in Greek, means "O" (the old-Bulgarian letter for "N" is "N" (as can be seen in the word "na" there), it's "Н" only in modern Cyrillic). However, it seems it actually meant "И" ("I") on Greek. Thus, it would probably be part of the first word - Ruskii.
The second letter in your second pic is П (Latin form - P). Next letter is Л (Latin form - L). Next is the yat (meaning "ya", "a", "ye" or "e"). After that is the arc with the "N". Then it's "E", "Ж" (Latin form - "zh") and "E" again .
Thus, the inscription should, IMO, be "Ruskii pl(j)enezhe na Blugari".

[phoenix[illusion]]

Seems I was mistaken. I thought the old-Bulgarian "Н", as in Greek, means "O" (the old-Bulgarian letter for "N" is "N" (as can be seen in the word "na" there), it's "Н" only in modern Cyrillic). However, it seems it actually meant "И" ("I") on Greek. Thus, it would probably be part of the first word - Ruskii.
The second letter in your second pic is П (Latin form - P). Next letter is Л (Latin form - L). Next is the yat (meaning "ya", "a", "ye" or "e"). After that is the arc with the "N". Then it's "E", "Ж" (Latin form - "zh") and "E" again .
Thus, the inscription should, IMO, be "Ruskii pl(j)enezhe na Blugari".

oh, this seems right. I've mixed L with A, didn't noticed that it is not written the same.

[gogo t]

Ясна е работата...
"Русите налазия бугарите "
For the noncyrlic members- im joking, nothing interesting

[Son of Fire]

Thanks Phoenix...

[Son of Fire]

Now... Croats...
Again, you may have seen some of these images before...

http://s1033.photobucket.com/albums/...eval%20Croats/

[phoenix[illusion]]

Now... Croats...
Again, you may have seen some of these images before...

http://s1033.photobucket.com/albums/...eval%20Croats/

i want to know did Bosnian use those kind of units like Croats or Dalmatians
just in case that i have lack of information on Bosnians

[Son of Fire]

I think I have a couple Boznian pic's... give me a bit to take a look...

If you ask me though... I would say they would be a mix of Serb and Croat influence... so their units would look like either, or a mix of the two...

[matija191]

i want to know did Bosnian use those kind of units like Croats or Dalmatians
just in case that i have lack of information on Bosnians

Nobility was equiped in western way, as Croatian knights, but infantry was armed wery poor, in eastern style.There was difference between some areas of Territory ruled by Tvrtko Kotromanic.Armies of Zapadni Kraji (Western Parts) and Usora and Soli, who where inhabited by Croats were equiped in western way.Armies of central Bosnia were equiped in eastern way.Zachumlia was also equiped in eastern style, because many of its inhabitants were Vlachs and Serbs, except for coastal regions who where inhabited by Croats.

[phoenix[illusion]]

Nobility was equiped in western way, as Croatian knights, but infantry was armed wery poor, in eastern style.There was difference between some areas of Territory ruled by Tvrtko Kotromanic.Armies of Zapadni Kraji (Western Parts) and Usora and Soli, who where inhabited by Croats were equiped in western way.Armies of central Bosnia were equiped in eastern way.Zachumlia was also equiped in eastern style, because many of its inhabitants were Vlachs and Serbs, except for coastal regions who where inhabited by Croats.

you've got that point right, but i was wondering if putting dalmatian infantry or croat infantry into regular Bosnian army would be non-histoical. dunno do they have to have only pure bosnain named units or also croatian and dalmatian, like bulgars have tatar units

[matija191]

you've got that point right, but i was wondering if putting dalmatian infantry or croat infantry into regular Bosnian army would be non-histoical. dunno do they have to have only pure bosnain named units or also croatian and dalmatian, like bulgars have tatar units

well informations about medieval bosnian state are few and most of the are wrong.informations about bosnian army doesn´t exist, at least I don´t know for them.I have seen only two illustrations of bosnian soldiers.One, completely wrong, from Osprey book, and other from Chronica Hungarica.I will post the second picture soon as I uploaded her.

For croatian units, you could add some units, for example: Usoran militia (composed of Croats) etc.

[Matthæus]

Nobility was equiped in western way, as Croatian knights, but infantry was armed wery poor, in eastern style.There was difference between some areas of Territory ruled by Tvrtko Kotromanic.Armies of Zapadni Kraji (Western Parts) and Usora and Soli, who where inhabited by Croats were equiped in western way.Armies of central Bosnia were equiped in eastern way.Zachumlia was also equiped in eastern style, because many of its inhabitants were Vlachs and Serbs, except for coastal regions who where inhabited by Croats.

and where did you find that armies in central Bosnia were equipped in eastern style ?
cause i can prove to you that nobility wore imported Italian armors. and there is almost no information about infantry armour whatsoever (expect archers). majority of weapons of Serbs in early 15th century had "western" influence or were bought from the west (swords, crossbows).
maybe it would be more clear if you explain what do you mean by "eastern" style.

PS
Dalmatians in Bosnian army. possible if Bosnia conquers the provinces and recruit them there

[slavic_crusader]

Oh my god Matko is back. YEah!!! lol.

Gald to see u matko ^^

[Son of Fire]

This is all I have for Bosnians...

http://s1033.photobucket.com/albums/...al%20Bosnians/

[matija191]

and where did you find that armies in central Bosnia were equipped in eastern style ?
cause i can prove to you that nobility wore imported Italian armors. and there is almost no information about infantry armour whatsoever (expect archers). majority of weapons of Serbs in early 15th century had "western" influence or were bought from the west (swords, crossbows).
maybe it would be more clear if you explain what do you mean by "eastern" style.

PS
Dalmatians in Bosnian army. possible if Bosnia conquers the provinces and recruit them there

I already writted that the nobility was equiped in western style, but infantry...
My source is Ian Heath´s book: Armies of the middle ages, volume 2

[matija191]

This is all I have for Bosnians...

http://s1033.photobucket.com/albums/...al%20Bosnians/

all of them are Croats except for first picture of osprey books and pictures of shields

[Son of Fire]

Meh... I just nicked them and labeled them what they were labeled initially...
Even if they are... then heck... count them as the Croatian contingent in the Bosnian army...

Behold, my sneakiness...

[Vojdoo]

Now... Croats...
Again, you may have seen some of these images before...

http://s1033.photobucket.com/albums/...eval%20Croats/

Is it me or some of those units look Venetian?

[Matthæus]

I already writted that the nobility was equiped in western style, but infantry...
My source is Ian Heath´s book: Armies of the middle ages, volume 2

yes i read heath, but fact is that even he has very little primary sources.
when you say eastern equipment i think of lamellar armor, composite bows and such stuff which you wont find in Bosnia.

all of them are Croats except for first picture of osprey books and pictures of shields

and last picture. there are kotromanic and hrvatinic there. i posted those pictures originally.