Re: [Faction research topic]: The Great Moravia,Serbia, Anciliaries and titles.
So I tried to play a bit of Moravian campaign. In order to make it a bit more enjoyable I decided to mess around some files and change names for some Moravian units and added description similar to one I posted here. Looks like success. Stats however are all over place so I might mess with them too. Perhaps I will learn something. Wish I knew how to do 2D art, so I could help a bit in this matter.
Re: [Faction research topic]: The Great Moravia,Serbia, Anciliaries and titles.
Make a list on the unit names you sugest.
Also please tell me where did you find the buildings UI cards to ask permision to use them.
My attempts were to use ROME1/BI buildings UI cards modified with Photoshop to create TGC's unique ones.
TGC in order to continue its development seak one or more desicated scripters to put our campaign scripts mess to an order plus to create new events and create the finall missing factions recruitment system. In return TGC will give permision to those that will help to use its material stepe by step. The result will be a fully released TGC plus many mods that will benefit TGC's material. TGC settlements previews. Adding MARKA HORSES in your mod and create new varietions of them. Tutorial RESTORED.
Re: [Faction research topic]: The Great Moravia,Serbia, Anciliaries and titles.
So far I have only changed names and description of few units. Mostly those that have finished skins. Plus one generic unit which has not been reskinned to moravian theme yet. So I changed: "moravian spearman" to "kopijnici", "moravian archers" to "lukostrelci", "moravian javelinmen" to "ostepari", "moravian horsemen" (heavy cavalry) to "Kmeti" and one generic unit, not reskinned yet. It was called "moravian regular warriors" so I changed it to "axeman" and added description. I am about to write description for "heavy moravian swordsemn" and change its name to "Pesi Kmeti" and I want to change "heavy moravian spearman" into something else, did not decide name yet. I do not want to edit other units since they are not reskinned/finished yet.
I did not change any buildings UI yet. I may try it if I feel in mood but there are not many tutorials or such so I only change stuff that I can figure out on my own. Neither did I copy anything from other mods and I do not plan to but if I did I will surely ask for permission.
I noticed, that Serbia also have four or five units already done. Just like Moravia it has its basic militia roster > Suličari, javelinmen, local spearman, heavy spearman and serbian hunters. So I will try to find some books on early serbian warfare and maybe come up with some generic names and description. But it might prove to be more difficult thank I think.
Re: [Faction research topic]: The Great Moravia,Serbia, Anciliaries and titles.
Great Moravia will be followed Arabic rosters.
Serbia uses 100% placeholder units.
A Moravian rostser must have:
A number of units of peasant status (javelinmen, spearmen and archers or even tribal light horsemen).
A number of Proffesional units (those the live with the spoils of war and ussualy have chain mail as starting armor or atleast padded ones or heavier). The will include axemen OR swordmen , spearmen and heavy cavalry.
Atleast a unit to represent the local nobillity like Roman Aristocrats.
2-4 Palace units both on foot or on horse to represent King's personal army.
Tarkani of Bulgarian roster is such a unit.
A total number 0f 10 to 14/15 are enough.
The buildings UI cards can you tell us where you found them to ask permision to use them?
TGC in order to continue its development seak one or more desicated scripters to put our campaign scripts mess to an order plus to create new events and create the finall missing factions recruitment system. In return TGC will give permision to those that will help to use its material stepe by step. The result will be a fully released TGC plus many mods that will benefit TGC's material. TGC settlements previews. Adding MARKA HORSES in your mod and create new varietions of them. Tutorial RESTORED.
Re: [Faction research topic]: The Great Moravia,Serbia, Anciliaries and titles.
I finished descriptions on Moravian units (including placeholders) and changed their recruitment model. Result looks like this.
BARRACKS CHAIN (militia infantry and missile units)
moravian archer > changed to > lukostrelci
moravian javelinmen > oštepári
moravian spearmen > kopijníci
moravian regular warriors > sekerníci
STABLES CHAIN (light and medium cavalry)
great moravian horsemene > changed to > jazdci
*at least one more light or medium melee cavalry model needs to be done, then I will create description*
ARCHERY RANGE CHAIN of buildings
no units here, it is used for experience upgrade for slavic and nomadic factions apparently
SMITHS building chain (as far as I understood, it is for professional/armored units)
heavy moravian spearman > changed to > starší kopijníci
rikote tjarlai (*placeholder unit) > zbrojnoši
peshatsi draugai (*placeholder unit) > odenci
moravian regular archers (*placeholder unit) > starší lukostrelci
DUKAL MANOR building chain (used for noblemen; but there are extra units in capital cities)
heavy moravian horsemen > changed to > kmeti
heavy moravian swordsmen > peší kmeti
Now I believe Moravia needs one more light melee cavalry and one more heavy cavalry unit. That would make 12 units roster. Which is not big but I believe it is enough. No need to have multiple units with same role. It is hard to come up with names and descriptions because in past there were not so many definitions and differences. Also, it is easier for people creating unit skins and models.
Summa summarun: If someone edit placeholder units (moravian regular archer, regular warrior, rikote tjarlai and peshatsi draugai) and then make two new models - one light cav and one heavy cavalry, I would add some description and names and moravian roster would be finished. I will add files if someone wanna take a look what changes I made.moravian WIP roster.7z
Last edited by Majkl; September 19, 2023 at 04:35 AM.
Re: [Faction research topic]: The Great Moravia,Serbia, Anciliaries and titles.
I replaced church building lines for northern european culture (franks, moravians) with pictures from Barbarian Invasion. I always loved BI art style on buildings.
Last edited by Majkl; September 19, 2023 at 07:42 AM.
Re: [Faction research topic]: The Great Moravia,Serbia, Anciliaries and titles.
Our recruitment system relies on the each unit starting armor.
For example Scutatoi start with no body armor . They require only Baracks.
Kontaratoi require Padded Armory building + Baracks
Menaylatoi srat with chain mail armor and they require Iron smithy +Baracks
Cavalry units exept their starting armor they require Stables building as well. Just Stables.
TGC in order to continue its development seak one or more desicated scripters to put our campaign scripts mess to an order plus to create new events and create the finall missing factions recruitment system. In return TGC will give permision to those that will help to use its material stepe by step. The result will be a fully released TGC plus many mods that will benefit TGC's material. TGC settlements previews. Adding MARKA HORSES in your mod and create new varietions of them. Tutorial RESTORED.
Re: [Faction research topic]: The Great Moravia,Serbia, Anciliaries and titles.
Oh, I see. That is interesting approach. I will change Moravian roster to reflect that but I need some example. Is Croatian roster 100% finished? Or maybe Bulgarian?
Re: [Faction research topic]: The Great Moravia,Serbia, Anciliaries and titles.
Last edited by AnthoniusII; September 22, 2023 at 08:35 AM.
TGC in order to continue its development seak one or more desicated scripters to put our campaign scripts mess to an order plus to create new events and create the finall missing factions recruitment system. In return TGC will give permision to those that will help to use its material stepe by step. The result will be a fully released TGC plus many mods that will benefit TGC's material. TGC settlements previews. Adding MARKA HORSES in your mod and create new varietions of them. Tutorial RESTORED.
Re: [Faction research topic]: The Great Moravia,Serbia, Anciliaries and titles.
Lombards have more armory depended units as example:
Nottice that in this example Baracks + stables ONLY give some unarmored starting units.
TGC in order to continue its development seak one or more desicated scripters to put our campaign scripts mess to an order plus to create new events and create the finall missing factions recruitment system. In return TGC will give permision to those that will help to use its material stepe by step. The result will be a fully released TGC plus many mods that will benefit TGC's material. TGC settlements previews. Adding MARKA HORSES in your mod and create new varietions of them. Tutorial RESTORED.
Re: [Faction research topic]: The Great Moravia,Serbia, Anciliaries and titles.
So I changed it according to mod frame you provided. *names I added are in italics
1. Družina/General's bodyguard PALACE UNITS:
2. There are none so far. Once there is some placeholder unit or skins provided I will add description. I propose cavalry unit - called Moravania, which would represent ruling elite, smaller duces who participated on rule and were very close to ruler. They are mentioned in historical records as distinct social group. For example in time of baptism, it was written that "Rastislav together with his Moravians..." which mean ruler and his closest companions who no doubt participated in war. Other than that I have no idea what "palace units" there could be. REGIONAL UNITS:
Barracks: 3. Moravian spearman (Kopijníci)
4. Moravian javelinmen (Oštepári) and
5. Moravian archers (Lukostrelci) are all available in barracks at 1st level. Stables: 6. Greatmoravian horseman (Jazdci/skirmisher cavalry with no armour) are available in stables at 1st lvl.
7. Another light/medium melee cavalry skin/placeholder is needed, so I can write description and name. It would wear light chainmail and so it would be available from stables at 2nd level, which requires blacksmith. So stables + blacksmith - new medium cavalry
Smiths:
1st level - leather/padded armour
8. access to Moravian regular warriors (Sekerníci)
2nd level - chainmail
9. access to Moravian regular archers (Staršílukostrelci)
10. access to Rikote Tjarlai (placeholder) (Odenci)
3rd level - heavy chainmail
11. access to Peshatsi Draugai (placeholder) (Zbrojnoši)
12. access to Moravian heavy spearman (StaršíKopijníci)
ESTATES
13. Moravian heavy horseman (Kmeti)
14. Moravian heavy swordsman (PešíKmeti)
I am getting used to changing this stuff so once placeholder units are finished I will revise it all make all necessary updates.
Last edited by Majkl; September 26, 2023 at 07:13 AM.
Reason: formatting text here is pain in the ass
Re: [Faction research topic]: The Great Moravia,Serbia, Anciliaries and titles.
Remember that in estates the units that all faction produse REPRESENT THE LOCAL NOBILLITY.
Heavy horsemen can be recruited either as Palace units or as ellite regional/tribal units.
So far so good. The materal you already publiushed gives me an idea of what Rusichi adn TGC materials will be used to make the roster.
TGC in order to continue its development seak one or more desicated scripters to put our campaign scripts mess to an order plus to create new events and create the finall missing factions recruitment system. In return TGC will give permision to those that will help to use its material stepe by step. The result will be a fully released TGC plus many mods that will benefit TGC's material. TGC settlements previews. Adding MARKA HORSES in your mod and create new varietions of them. Tutorial RESTORED.
Re: [Faction research topic]: The Great Moravia,Serbia, Anciliaries and titles.
Ok so I was digging in files. As far as I understood 2 leves of "estate" building chain is for local nobility, available everywhere (if you choose military over economy), third level is only in capital of faction and produce "palace units" and fourth level is only available in Constantinople and Rome. So I moved gm_heavyhorsemen and their dismounted version into "royal_palace" which is 3rd level in capital of Mikulcice. So they now serve as "palace units" and so I changed their name and description. I am also learning how to make some 2D art for buildings but it is painfully difficult. I tried to change pictures for "estates" buildings, they are not great but I think they look better than placeholders from Attila TW. If I get better one day, I may replace them too. Here is example how it looks in game.
EDIT: I made pictures by taking screenshots from document that is available online on historical webstie and I also made building icons from them. They look a little bit clunky but I hope I will get better with that in some months or years.
Last edited by Majkl; October 08, 2023 at 09:33 AM.
Re: [Faction research topic]: The Great Moravia,Serbia, Anciliaries and titles.
Great when you are ready use the 2 Recruitment examples to make a 10-14 max units Roster .
I asked Roar for 2d help ages ago , he responded positive but never hepled.
TGC in order to continue its development seak one or more desicated scripters to put our campaign scripts mess to an order plus to create new events and create the finall missing factions recruitment system. In return TGC will give permision to those that will help to use its material stepe by step. The result will be a fully released TGC plus many mods that will benefit TGC's material. TGC settlements previews. Adding MARKA HORSES in your mod and create new varietions of them. Tutorial RESTORED.
Re: [Faction research topic]: The Great Moravia,Serbia, Anciliaries and titles.
Ok so I did proposed roster according to your format but I put it in word document because I dunno how to do it in forums. Moravian roster.rar
EDIT: "GM_heavy_spearman" could be used as unique unit and moved from smith line building into estates instead of "lesser_druzhina" placeholder. Moravia is described as specialized in axes and spears so this could fit and it would mean one less unit to model for you. A lot of tweaks are possible, it is up to you how much work do you want to put into Moravia roster. But I would prefer smaller roster because many units fit same role anyway. Anyway, many tweaks are possible, just tell me what you think. Can even use PM.
Last edited by Majkl; October 09, 2023 at 10:43 AM.
Re: [Faction research topic]: The Great Moravia,Serbia, Anciliaries and titles.
So after weeks of watching tutorials and trying, I decided today to try make simple 2D icon for dirt roads for Franks and Moravia. I think I succeded. Description picture is quite generic, however I am a little proud on that icon. Looks decent enough. Took me "only" three hours of figuring out stuff. And I think this is the simplest icon to make.
Re: [Faction research topic]: The Great Moravia,Serbia, Anciliaries and titles.
I made icon for land clearence and civil focus buildings. I made distinction in way of different animals, so level 1 farms are chicken, level 2 has pig and level 3 has a cow. Gonna go back and fix estates with new icons and perhaps description pictures too. But it is hard to find some decent pictures and illustrations of any Frankish or Moravian architecture that could resemble carolingian nobleman's villa or something similar. I think it is getting better though.
Last edited by Majkl; October 11, 2023 at 02:50 PM.
Re: [Faction research topic]: The Great Moravia,Serbia, Anciliaries and titles.
Awesome stuff, I'm so glad to see you are progressing. I will see what images (contemporary) I can find to help you out. Any other information or images you can think of that will help?
Re: [Faction research topic]: The Great Moravia,Serbia, Anciliaries and titles.
@_TotalWar_ Thanks
@Antiokhos I do not think too much forward so, no idea what else I will need. For now I am trying to create estates. We will see, it is very time consuming though. :S