Fans suggestion thread for future releases

[Shoebopp]

Please DO NOT implement the "advanced rebel spawn" script. While it may make the mid to late game more interesting, it can easily kill your campaign early-game when your resources are stretched thin. You can fight half a dozen heroic victories to escape a brutal starting situation, then by random chance a giant rebel army too strong for your decimated forces spawn. If you have to keep that script, at least make the severity of the rebellion scale with the size of the player's empire

[Lusitanio]

Please DO NOT implement the "advanced rebel spawn" script. While it may make the mid to late game more interesting, it can easily kill your campaign early-game when your resources are stretched thin. You can fight half a dozen heroic victories to escape a brutal starting situation, then by random chance a giant rebel army too strong for your decimated forces spawn. If you have to keep that script, at least make the severity of the rebellion scale with the size of the player's empire

You haven't even tested that... I have tested that script with multiple factions, Carthage, Lusitania, Celtiberia, Sweboz, Pontus, Bosphorus, Ptolemai, Seleucids and everything is good so far. The best thing is that it keeps your armies experienced and you have good opportunities to give experience to your Generals.

[Shoebopp]

You haven't even tested that... I have tested that script with multiple factions, Carthage, Lusitania, Celtiberia, Sweboz, Pontus, Bosphorus, Ptolemai, Seleucids and everything is good so far. The best thing is that it keeps your armies experienced and you have good opportunities to give experience to your Generals.

I trust you on that. Yeah, I sorta overreacted. What I had in mind for example was playing as Bosphorus, getting your starting stack wasted clearing out the Crimean Peninsula and conquering Skythiapolis, then discovering a stack of Skythian Nobles and Skythian Riders appearing out of thin air. But since you've played some of the more brutal factions (Sweboz, Pontus, Bosphorus) and found it feasible, I guess it's good

[Lusitanio]

I trust you on that. Yeah, I sorta overreacted. What I had in mind for example was playing as Bosphorus, getting your starting stack wasted clearing out the Crimean Peninsula and conquering Skythiapolis, then discovering a stack of Skythian Nobles and Skythian Riders appearing out of thin air. But since you've played some of the more brutal factions (Sweboz, Pontus, Bosphorus) and found it feasible, I guess it's good

Bosphorus in an especially hard campaign, not due to the rebel spawns but due to the other scrips already in place.
Sweboz was hard too because the rebel stacks would hide in the forests but it's still manageable.

[Satapatiš]

AI Sweboz is doing too well anyway so maybe more rebels will limit them a bit.

Here's hoping that usually slow Rome AI can survive the experience.

[QuintusSertorius]

Please DO NOT implement the "advanced rebel spawn" script. While it may make the mid to late game more interesting, it can easily kill your campaign early-game when your resources are stretched thin. You can fight half a dozen heroic victories to escape a brutal starting situation, then by random chance a giant rebel army too strong for your decimated forces spawn. If you have to keep that script, at least make the severity of the rebellion scale with the size of the player's empire

Lusi has tested that more than anyone else, so can give the most accurate feedback on the experience of it. But it's worth noting that not only is the frequency quite low (with a cooldown, so you can't get rapid recurrences of them), but the spawns are usually only 5 units. The biggest one is 8 units. They're not Rebel doomstacks by any means.

The difficulty it brings is not that you might have to face something bigger than your depleted forces can handle. Instead, that if you don't appropriately garrison your regions, you might lose them before you can get an army to deal with a spawn.

[RodriguesSting]

I presume this will force me to rethink some of my strategies. Namely, raiding (lone FMs clustered in Rebel lands without any units at all) and blooding (keep Green FM under the command of an older general outside the settlement for them to gain Auxiliary General time, mostly for KH, Celts, Rome, and Sauromatae, and to a lesser degree, other Hellenics). Keeping these characters alone might risk losing them to an attack by these local brigands.

However, isn't it possible these rooving bands might join up in a doom stack?

[Satapatiš]

Bah. I murder everything unaffiliated appearing in my territories with a healthy dose of extremely extreme prejudice. It will not affect my campaigns much.

[Lusitanio]

However, isn't it possible these rooving bands might join up in a doom stack?

It is possible. They usually represent quite a challenge unless you have a strong army. Be in mind that these stacks represent local revolts, so they will not be composed of elite troops, usually just the General.

Here's hoping that usually slow Rome AI can survive the experience.

Not only they can but those stacks help the AI increasing the experience in their armies. With Carthage I was facing more experienced Roman armies than what was usual.

[Shoebopp]

May I suggest some slight mass balancing for a few units? Thorakitai ATM have a mass of 1.05, which is quite low considering their heavy armament and professional discipline. You'd expect them to resist cavalry charges better than the similarly armored but sword-bearing Thracian Colonists (1.1 mass), no? Perhaps a mass of 1.10 or even 1.15 would better reflect their staying power. This extends to a few other infantry units with surprisingly low or high mass. For example, both Sabaean elite archer-spearmen units have masses of 1.1 and 1.2. Yes, they're elite troops who are probably extensively trained to counter a cavalry charge, but no amount of training can make up for a measly shield of 2. They can't brace themselves properly as a result. Of course, the EBII team knows a hell lot more about IRL combat mechanics, so please correct me if my logic is flawed.

[Shoebopp]

Certain factions whose core provinces are landlocked on the edges of the map have hard times trying to retrain some of their units, especially if their foreign governments do not provide "core units". For example, the entire Sabaean roster can only be trained in southern and western Arabia, with their elites only from the southern tip of Arabia. The Sarmatians fare better, but two of their iconic units, the Roxolani Riders and Sarmatian Armored Riders, can only be trained in their starting capital. There's also the Taksashilans, whose non-retinue Indian roster can only be trained in India. Although this logistic hurdle adds to the challenge and realism of the game, it makes it infeasible to field certain units.

I have a few suggestions to fix each of the aforementioned factions. For the Sarmatians, allow Urban Land of the Sauromatae to be constructed in converted cities, allowing Sarmatian Armored Riders to be trained in Maoitis and Ksiragatai. For the Sabaeans, make the Sabaean Royal Infantry a low-refresh retinue unit, and the Sabaean Elite Urban Infantry available from a special government requiring large city. Finally, maybe slightly increase the native Indian AOR to include indogreek regions?

[Neyak]

Maybe make the Stasis penalty in part culture dependent. As in, -10 Law at 0% Hellenistic Culture, -15 at 30%, -20 at 60% and -25% at 90% (values just examples) ... right now it seems odd that control over places like Histrie or Olbia, for example, that have a Greek emporion but whose surrounding countryside is full of barbarians and nomads, are affected by stasis the same as Korinthos or Athens, that are 100% full of philosophical people interested in bashing each others' heads in over politics (albeit with the appropriate decorum).

[Satapatiš]

I think that Hellenic Thureophoroi could use the free_upkeep_unit attribute. Effectively they're replacing Hemithorakitai and Hoplitai in the late game and the metioned units come with this attribute.

[Neyak]

I've recently started a Bosporos campagin, and I just can't get over the fact that the family tree tells me that Eumelos "died peacefully" in 304 BC. Since when is dying in a chariot accident "peaceful"? I suppose adding
"[SMT_DIED_IN_CHARIOT_ACCIDENT] Died in a chariot accident:"
to the stat.txt for defining a new category of death does not work ... darn the historical accurateness of my campaign is ruined. Seriously though, there is "[SMT_DIED_TRAGICALLY] Died tragically:" ... maybe change Eumelos' death to that category?

Also, what happened to Eumelos two other brothers, Satyros and Prytanis? I mean, yes, killed in a fraternal civil war / assassinated by his brother's goons, but I don't think they've been eliminated from history? Maybe include those in the KB family tree?

[Satapatiš]

I've recently started a Bosporos campagin, and I just can't get over the fact that the family tree tells me that Eumelos "died peacefully" in 304 BC. Since when is dying in a chariot accident "peaceful"? I suppose adding
"[SMT_DIED_IN_CHARIOT_ACCIDENT] Died in a chariot accident:"
to the stat.txt for defining a new category of death does not work ... darn the historical accurateness of my campaign is ruined. Seriously though, there is "[SMT_DIED_TRAGICALLY] Died tragically:" ... maybe change Eumelos' death to that category?

Also, what happened to Eumelos two other brothers, Satyros and Prytanis? I mean, yes, killed in a fraternal civil war / assassinated by his brother's goons, but I don't think they've been eliminated from history? Maybe include those in the KB family tree?

It's best to ignore the family tree. It's a hardcoded leftover from the vanila M2TW mechanics. It's very simplified, has to start with a single ancestor and eventually will include even the faction members who wouldn't be blood relatives. It's there because it can't be replaced with anything else (or removed), as the Teutonic system didn't work for EB2.

If you think that's ahistorical and immersion-breaking for the Bosphoran kingdom, then think about how Pahlava should have a separate family tree for each great clan. Or SPQR for every gens. Let's not even go into the KH with their mixture of democratic and oligarchic poleis. But those are simply hardcoded engine limitations.

[Neyak]

Komata Toxotai (Dacian Archers) should have the is_peasant attribute, which they currently don't have (making them have the best garrison-bonus-per-cost out there) -- all comparable units in the game have it and their description is all about how farmers are good at shooting.

Plus, weird thing, as KB I destroyed the Skythian Enclave in Olbia, yet I still seem to be able to recruit the units that came from it and still have that extra recruitment slot. Some kind of bug with the game itself? Or something that can be fixed?

[Gigantus]

Regarding the 'character killing' info. If scripted then a cause of death can be added, only the battle death gets a in-game message, but all are displayed in the family tree.

Which means you could script a disaster death (starvation is a RTW left over and does not display associated text) and then change the text a bit, eg 'a tragic accident...' and have a more detailed historic_event message.

[Shoebopp]

The Pontus reform requirement requires winning 10 battles against the eastern Hellenistic factions. It's a bit hard to keep count, especially when there's ambiguity on what makes the battle count (do you need to be the attacker? Does the enemy army need to be led by a FM?). Perhaps a scripted popup message every 3 qualifying battles updating the player on his/her progress would be useful? Something like:

3 victories: "Hail Basileus! You have secured 3 victories against the Hellenes. You are well on your way to establishing yourself as the true heir of the Achaemenid Empire"

6 victories: "Hail Basileus! You have won 6 great victories against the Hellenes. Your influence grows and many are beginning to recognize your burgeoning kingdom"

9 victories: "O Great King, you have achieved 9 glorious victories against the Hellenes. No longer would they question your legitimacy as King of Asia. Perhaps one more blow to their pride would make them prostate themselves before your feet?"

10th victory: "THE KINGDOM OF PONTUS HAS BEEN REORGANIZED INTO THE FIRST. ASIAN. EMPIRE. FOR A SAFE, AND SECURE, SOCIETY"

The worst feeling is when you fulfill the territorial requirements, prematurely wiping out Pergamon and Bosphoros in the process but still haven't hit the 10 victories requirement, forcing you to poke the sleeping bear that is the Seleucids/Ptolemies.

[Neyak]

It's best to ignore the family tree. It's a hardcoded leftover from the vanila M2TW mechanics. It's very simplified, has to start with a single ancestor and eventually will include even the faction members who wouldn't be blood relatives. It's there because it can't be replaced with anything else (or removed), as the Teutonic system didn't work for EB2.

Hmmm ... maybe for family trees that are meant to contain several independent family trees, one could have the single ancestor be some mythic forefather of the culture in question. Is there anything in the game that stops you from having someone die in 1100 BC or who knows when?

I think that Hellenic Thureophoroi could use the free_upkeep_unit attribute. Effectively they're replacing Hemithorakitai and Hoplitai in the late game and the metioned units come with this attribute.

But Thureophoroi aren't citizen soldiers in the same way that Hoplitai are, and that's what matters, I would think.

Some other observations pertaining to my ongoing KB campaign: Maybe there could be some mission related to the conquest of Thraike? The Spartokidai, which make up the entire family tree, are after all of Thracian origin. Or at least a unique trait for the FM conquering the place, like "Nikator Thrakes", with something like +1 to Influence and ... don't know, Fertility? (I mean, having conquered your families ancient homeland does make you irresistibly attractive ...)

[Satapatiš]

But Thureophoroi aren't citizen soldiers in the same way that Hoplitai are, and that's what matters, I would think.

On the other hand, Thureophoroi recruitment is increased by the military reform which has a prerequisite of giving grants of free land to the citizen to increase the amount of citizenry able to serve.