EU law is formulated by the unelected commission. Only one of them is British, the rest are not. I’m just not happy with the commission being the only one to put new legislation to the floor.
The Commission is nominated and confirmed to these positions by elected and state officials. The European Council and the European Parliament. Those two institutions maintain the sole right to amend and/or approve any legislative proposal submitted by the EC.
EDIT: The exception to this process is I guess the Union's primary law, but I don't think you were talking about that specific subset. Since that is entirely within the purview of member-states.
Last edited by Alastor; May 31, 2019 at 07:10 AM.
What I laid out shows that this process is controlled by elected officials. If that is a democratic deficit then your problem isn't with the EU but western democracies as a whole. I won't disagree with you if that is indeed your issue. It's simply not relevant to the discussion.
The top issue for leavers was British law should be made by britons in britain, and that we should control immigration. I’m trying, (and quite possibly failing) to convey why this is.
It has already been conveyed why this is. It is because they don't understand how the EU works. It is because various groups within the UK made sure to misinform and lie to the people about these processes. It is because successive UK governments benefited from the EU boogeyman to deflect criticism over their own policies. Really it is quite clear why.
Last edited by Alastor; May 31, 2019 at 07:27 AM.
This is like complaining that unelected civil servants devise policy initiatives that go into the budget. Just like the budget, anything devised by the Commission has to be approved by both (elected) legislatures.
You're conveying your point fine: that lots of people felt that the EU was undemocratic. We're simply pointing out to you that it's not at all.
Patron to Lord Mov, Azog 150, JaM, Lord William, Grouchy13
"For what it’s worth: it’s never too late to be whoever you want to be. I hope you live a life you’re proud of, and if you find that you’re not, I hope you have the strength to start all over again."
Well Aexodus does have a point about a democratic deficit, if only purely because the matter of scale, which means that the larger the population, the less each vote counts. I used to be concerned about these things, but the older I get the more abstract such concerns seem to me. I'm more inclined to base my judgements on practice rather than theory. Perhaps it is even better to have a union governed by a body that's come about through horse trading between national governments rather than one based solely on a majority in the European parliament, even if the latter would evidently be more democratic in a procedural sense. It may be better that compromise is hard coded this way than risk the kind of adversarial attitude and entrenchment that is poisoning quite a few national democracies.
"Lay these words to heart, Lucilius, that you may scorn the pleasure which comes from the applause of the majority. Many men praise you; but have you any reason for being pleased with yourself, if you are a person whom the many can understand?" - Lucius Annaeus Seneca -
Patron to Lord Mov, Azog 150, JaM, Lord William, Grouchy13
"For what it’s worth: it’s never too late to be whoever you want to be. I hope you live a life you’re proud of, and if you find that you’re not, I hope you have the strength to start all over again."
Immigration isn't the top issue for most , except for racist parties.It's inequality. If the issue is about British law being made by Britons in Britain, why the outrage when the UK Parliament rejects Brexit?
Indeed. For too long the UK have been sold this lie that their improverishment was a necessary evil (austerity) or the fault of feckless working class benefit claimants, migrants, and so forth. all this whilst corporation tax was reduced to daft levels, or in some cases bugger all.
Last edited by mongrel; May 31, 2019 at 10:14 AM.
Absolutley Barking, Mudpit Mutt Former Patron: Garbarsardar
"Out of the crooked tree of humanity,no straight thing can be made." Immanuel Kant
"Oh Yeah? What about a cricket bat? That's pretty straight. Just off the top of my head..." Al Murray, Pub Landlord.
I actually don’t like the EU council system. In my opinion it gives leaders too much Executive power.
You're out of step with the masses, then. 54% want a strong leader.
Patron to Lord Mov, Azog 150, JaM, Lord William, Grouchy13
"For what it’s worth: it’s never too late to be whoever you want to be. I hope you live a life you’re proud of, and if you find that you’re not, I hope you have the strength to start all over again."
Patron to Lord Mov, Azog 150, JaM, Lord William, Grouchy13
"For what it’s worth: it’s never too late to be whoever you want to be. I hope you live a life you’re proud of, and if you find that you’re not, I hope you have the strength to start all over again."
The underlying complication is that the EU's foundations are unsuitable for the superstate ideal. That the Union was established on top of industrialist arrangements rather than democratic philosophies and/or institutions shows: there is a fundamental lack of clarity in the purpose and design of the Union's constitutional settlement. It now has that feel of an outdated video game engine crumbling underneath the weight of all its modifications.
Last edited by Cope; May 31, 2019 at 11:52 AM.
LIES.
When it comes to the referendum, immigration was the top worry for voters:
https://www.ipsos.com/ipsos-mori/en-...-eu-referendum
You just called 1/3 of the country racist. Good job.
It's down in terms of priority now because May and her government messed up so hard that people started focusing on that.
The main issue here is that many liberals have come up with the insane idea that the solution to racism is ethnically cleanse white people, because only white people can be racist. Under that logic, shutting down debate over immigration and calling everyone racist is necessary so that the ethnic cleansing can swiftly continue without interruption.
Last edited by chriscase; June 01, 2019 at 02:58 AM. Reason: inflammatory removed
Why can't 1 be abolished? An anti-gun government makes anti-gun laws, why can't a pro-gun government make pro-gun laws?
The fact that matters is that when we get the UK into pro-gun, we DO NOT WANT to hear from the government or from Brussels that because we are still in EU, we still must abide to EU laws.
I think UKIP raised it. I don't see how that's odd when the point is we DO NOT WANT an additional layers of laws from a SUPERSTATE that require MULTI-NATIONAL VOTES to change.
You are dancing around this point because you know this is true.
Last edited by REhorror; May 31, 2019 at 09:24 PM.