Syracuse a 'bit' to powerfull?

[Nick_Since_1985]

I started a new game this evening (first time playing Roma Surectum) with Syracuse on campaing Hard and battle Very Hard settings, the year is 265 BC and I've allready taken over all of Carthage provinces except the ones in Spain and Africa Interior, money is flowing, I'am a 'the' navalsuperpower, and nothing seems to be able to stop in the next 50 years as I will be able to yust crush any opposition by yust landing huge army's near any potential enemy city and then destroy it...

My question, is Syracuse a bit to powerfull???

[icydawgfish]

I think in the hands of a skilled player, and faction is, but when the AI uses them in my campaigns, they usually don't expand to much beyond Sicily, that is if they don't get snuffed out by Carthage first.

[tone]

My thinking is that they probably are a bit overpowered...economy probably.

[Conradgeneral]

Any faction getting 30000 + denarii each turn can become a superpower in 10 turns with 0 turn recruitment. That's why I slow myself down...

[icydawgfish]

I think that the problem is that any faction can easily become a super power by 250 BC. It's just to easy, even small factions like Pergamum, can easily become a formidable power with ease.

[Lapata]

I blame the unlimited economy.

[pseudocaesar]

lapata, no need to keep reading the same news every evening ok.

[Lapata]

I dont see your point .

[pseudocaesar]

in the money and economy thread you explained your feelings about the economy and thats perfectly fine but try not too bring it to other threads with little relevance. we appreciate your input and im sure the team will act accordingly to make this mod as perfect as can be

OH and BTW about syracuse, they have to be quite strong for the AI to play them and do anything, usually they either get killed by Carthage or kick Carthage out of Sicily and stop. but when an expansionist human with a navy that knows how to invade by sea takes command all of a sudden your way overpowered.

[Lapata]

I think its relevant to this thread...

[aja5191]

Stop arguing, guys. Now.

Make a "pseudocaesar vs. Lapata" debate thread, for all I care.

Just leave this thread to what it is meant to discuss - Syracuse's power.

[icydawgfish]

upon request aja, it has been done. and it's actually "pseudoceasar vs lapata" so you two can battle it out there in an epic clash of the fates...or something like that.

[Drtad]

When I see Syracuse unite all of Sicily I do a double take. Syracuse is definitely too powerful. It definitely shouldn't be powerful enough to kick out Carthage by itself. For that it should need Carthage distracted+Roman or Epiriotic interference. Sycracuse as a city itself needstoning down while the other cities in Sicily need more resources. I am guessing Dvk wanted Syracuse to have a more divided Sicily, but now it has only created a Syracuse dominated Sicily, which in my opinion is even worse (sorry Dvk).

[GershomPatmos]

When I see Syracuse unite all of Sicily I do a double take. Syracuse is definitely too powerful. It definitely shouldn't be powerful enough to kick out Carthage by itself. For that it should need Carthage distracted+Roman or Epiriotic interference. Sycracuse as a city itself needstoning down while the other cities in Sicily need more resources. I am guessing Dvk wanted Syracuse to have a more divided Sicily, but now it has only created a Syracuse dominated Sicily, which in my opinion is even worse (sorry Dvk).

Are you serious? So you're saying to create a faction that cannot in and of itself expand and do more than try to defend its puny self? And this may be a problem in RTW - but just think of the possibilities if we were able to bring this to M2TW as a conversion with its naval expansion possibilities! Then you wouldn't be the only person "pwning" the seas. I know when I was playing as Syracuse on H/H that Carthage tried bringing in reinforcements by sea at the last second to save it's last city. The fools!

I will say this though...I think those caetrati seem a bit buffed up at times...especially when they slice through my cavalry like they're horsesteaks or something (not talking about their missiles either). But if the RS team makes it too hard it might make you guys bring out the cheatcodes, right? Just messing with ya.

But seriously...I thought that Syracuse had the most difficult starting position apart from their naval pwnage possibilities. But once you start attacking major cities and stealing those treasuries...those other factions end up being "done for." I would suggest, if you're finding it too easy to edit some values yourself though and submit them to the RS team and see what they think...or just keep suggesting them on here and I'm sure everyone will listen (as long as you're specific and helpful - not just a complaint)...

later friend,
Gersh

[Drtad]

Are you serious? So you're saying to create a faction that cannot in and of itself expand and do more than try to defend its puny self? And this may be a problem in RTW - but just think of the possibilities if we were able to bring this to M2TW as a conversion with its naval expansion possibilities! Then you wouldn't be the only person "pwning" the seas. I know when I was playing as Syracuse on H/H that Carthage tried bringing in reinforcements by sea at the last second to save it's last city. The fools!

But seriously...I thought that Syracuse had the most difficult starting position apart from their naval pwnage possibilities. But once you start attacking major cities and stealing those treasuries...those other factions end up being "done for." I would suggest, if you're finding it too easy to edit some values yourself though and submit them to the RS team and see what they think...or just keep suggesting them on here and I'm sure everyone will listen (as long as you're specific and helpful - not just a complaint)...

later friend,
Gersh

Hmm... I tried playing as Syracuse a bit with the latest patch, and even though I couldn't play a Greek faction if my life depended on it I united Sicily in 10 turns. This is on M/M (I know, I'm a wimp at least with Greeks). The AI is always aggressive, and if Syracuse attack the Carths early on they will end up dominating Sicily, and usually go on to invade and sack Carthage itself. That is disturbing. If you try to keep the peace with Carthage, yes you will have a tough game because Carthage will just build up and attack you with a lot. You have everything to lose on Sicily, while Carthage doesn't.

[removeduser_426582376423734]

Historically, Syracuse was not some sort of puny city. Under Hiero II (the tyrant, in many cases), Syracuse prospered into a hugely successful city, could have rivalled Carthage if it wasn't cut short. Don't forget, Archimedes was from Syracuse!

[♔Jean-Luc Picard♔]

i like Syracuse as it is. my super powered Sicilians are the best and should remain as such. if you know how to play, I'm sure you can dominate easily with a good economical base no matter what faction you play.

Skandranon Rakshae

[Samuel Adams]

I was playing as Syracruse last night. After a 15-year period of neutrality between Carthage and I, in which we flourished in trade with each other, I was assailed by them. And I mean, wholeheartedly, too; they were landing full to half stacks on Sicily every turn to reinforce their front lines, and here I was going from a 50,000 denarii treasury to a 30,000, 20,000, 15,000, etc, trying to build army after army after army; Yet they kicked me out of three of four of my cities within ten turns, and everytime I would play the battle out I'd win, but no matter what if I auto-resolved it my guys lost. So I took my faction heir and with a token force of reserves and a unit of Greek Infantry I took Malta, so I could fortify it. But Syracruse held firm, and I gradually took back two of my cities after staying up till 2:30 AM fighting a dozen battles against the carthagenians. Meanwhile, Rome is expanding west, and Carthage wants to deal with little ol me instead of Rome; they're gonna have a nice wake up party when I kick em outa Sicily and send them scurrying back to the white city.

MORAL OF THE STORY: maybe I just got lucky, but Playing as Syracruse has proved to be not as easy as some people make it out to be!

[dvk901]

As has been said, Syracuse has a very hard starting position. But let me explain a few things so you'll understand why this has to be the way it is.

1. Syracuse 'economic sphere' or 'homeland' is limited to Sicily. This means that outside Sicily, it's income will be weak, and all conquests will have to be finded by that income.

2. Each of the factions that start with only one or two regions poses a very 'awkward' problem in trying to configure them so they can, a) survive and b) even be playable. Pergamum starts with one region, Syracuse two, Epirus three, Bosporan two. Their positions are as historically correct as possible, but bear in mind this is a game that has no respect for history.

3. In order to give these small factions a fighting chance, they have an income that is, in terms of 'denarii per region' a lot better than the bigger factions. This is because, in a '0' turn game, they have to be able to produce a military, and have people to be warriors, just like any other faction. So they start with a good economy, a high population growth, and yes...a bit of an advantage over the larger factions.

4. The object of PLAYING one of these factions is, IMHO, to win. It's also meant to be fun. Some people blitz. Some people like to build defense and go slow (me). It's hard to provide for every method of play. So what I tried to do was provide the opportunity for a 'small faction' player to be able to win when they start with only one or two regions. Syracuse faces rather less competition than Pergamum does, and is in an area where they won't run into the Free People for a while....but when they do, things should get tougher.

It's all a 'balancing act' of trying to keep factions alive so you can fight them, and playable so you can win with them. My tests have shown that the small factions are configured pretty close to what they have to be in order to have both possible.

[dan101]

I agree with dvk and have played em (on patch 8 though) and it was fun, I think they are just right and if they dont get wiped out to early they can pose a threat when invading scicily(sp)