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  1. #1
    Denny Crane!'s Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Ontological anxiety - Uncertainty

    As anyone who has discussed buddhism with me knows I draw quite a lot of parallels between existential psychology and buddhism as they seem to focus on the same problems but attack them from different approachs. The existential approach seems more of an escalade than a siege, a deep and intense read that catapults you over the walls of your mind rather than sitting waiting, starving it out hoping for a breach when you can finally storm the seemingly impregnable fortress. Depending on the type of walls you have depends on the approach you prefer.

    My latest subject for investigation is Ontological anxiety. The two main protagonists of existentialism on this subject are Heidegger and kierkagaard, though I have been unable to purchase books on them yet there are many works to be read on the internet.

    The first assertion about the nature of anxiety is this:
    anxiety is the state in which
    a being is aware of its possible nonbeing.
    The same statement, in a shorter form, would read:
    anxiety is the existential awareness of nonbeing.
    "Existential" in this sentence means that
    it is not the abstract knowledge of nonbeing which produces anxiety
    but the awareness that nonbeing is a part of one's own being.
    It is not the realization of universal transitoriness,
    not even the experience of the death of others,
    but the impression of these events on the always latent awareness
    of our own having to die that produces anxiety.
    Anxiety is finitude, experienced as one's own finitude.
    This is the natural anxiety of man as man,
    and in some way of all living beings.
    It is the anxiety of nonbeing,
    the awareness of one's finitude as finitude.
    —Paul Tillich The Courage to Be p. 35-36
    (New Haven, CT: Yale UP, 1952)


    Anxiety is something individual to humans and inextricably linked to awareness. It is only as we become aware of ourselves, develop a consciousness that we feel anxiety. Animals do not suffer this trait peculiar to humans. It is reasonable to say that the more intelligent and individual suffer more than others.

    Kierkagaard thought the story of the expulsion of adam and eve was a metaphor for the process of humans becoming aware of themselves, the fact that the apple bestowed knowledge and self consciousness. It is the moment a human becomes self aware and a process we all go through in early childhood. This realisation of being seperated from the rest of the world brings with it the uncertainty that is slowly buffered and dissipated by the indoctrination of culture, religion and community. The strength people feel in groups and collectives is a blanket that protects them from anxiety.

    Anxiety is not a bad thing, it shows awareness of the human condition. The social constructs that protect us from the uncertainty of life lead to a false self. The more aware we are the more anxiety we feel. This is not to be confused with fear which is a fear of something direct and real, anxiety is the fear of the unknown and are diagnosable in real terms by the psychosomatic effects on the body.

    (fear being concern for the biological death, actual dangers. Anxiety being a fear of the cessation of self, addressed later)

    Existentialists talk about being able to move beyond existential anxiety into another state, I would draw a comparison here between nibana and this state for those that are interested.

    The most powerful catalyst of anxiety and the biggest ontological confrontation we must face is death. The fear of death is a broad subject:

    The objective empirical biological death, the cessation of our physical bodies.

    Our subjective fear of mortality and ceasing to be, the extinction of the self

    Ontological anxiety


    Most of the sources I have drawn from in reading this seem to confuse the second and the third point quite regularly. The fear of death that is most apparent is the first biological death which people most often focus on, this is an easy way to mask the more latent fears. Others hide behind religion as a way of stifling the fear in the hope that the first death will not lead to the second, the cessation of self. The hope that the self will carry on in another form is a construct specifically designed to address the fear. In other cases it is trivialised, ignored or masked in nihilism or blinded by philosophy. This allows people to view death objectively as a spectator rather than as a central fact of their being and recognising their participation in the process.

    If we can move past the objective passive observation of death as an objective event, past the very real fear - the inner fear of a cessation of being and look at the third more pervasive anxiety which occurs with self awareness and has little to do with death. While ontological anxiety has little to do with death, a lot of our fear of ceasing to be is linked to ontological anxiety.

    To move behind this requires transforming yourself into a more authentic being. Deconstructing the social constructs and beliefs, working past the repression and getting past the tricks of the mind that help in the repression of anxiety.

    It seems like a positive way forward in Tolstoys "The Death of Ivan Ilych" you see someone faced with death discovering a new lease of life, and renewed relationships with family and friends. Its not all roses however:


    Some concern has arisen as to how this investagitive process can actually destabilise some with low self esteem (oh crap ) There isn't really a clear consensus on this as yet. Patrick C Thauberger and his colleagues used a construct called "avoidance of ontological confrontation" as a basis for an empirical study which confronts the notion that awareness of death is a positive answer to the problem of this anxiety. Individuals who confronted death showed a higher use of soft drugs and stimulants and a lower self reported state of health and quality of life. So they showed no better than the "avoiders of confrontation with death" who required certain aids to help cope with reality. The study was inconclusive and complex, with a lot of variables.


    The consequences of ontological confrontation can be discerned empirically. In one experimental study, Christian subjects either considered or not considered the question of their own death, and were then asked to rate target persons on an interpersonal attraction scale. Ontological confrontation caused them on the one hand to rate a target peron significantly more favorable who was presented as a fellow Christian, that is an ingroup member. On the other hand, thinking of their own death led to much less favorable ratings of target persons who were presented as Jews, that is outgroup members. The same pattern was found in a second study when subjects rated target persons who either held very similar or very dissimilar attitudes. Thus it seems that mortality salience leads to more negative evaluations of outgroup members and those who criticize one's culture. It provokes harsher punishment for moral transgressors and increased aggression against those who challenge one's beliefs. Another study has shown that for individuals for whom driving ability is a barometer of self-esteem, mortality salience leads to increased risk-taking while driving and while driving in a simulator task.


    This puts more solid foundations on some of the views I have expressed in my concern with how religion effects us. Previously I labelled it as tribalism, which I believe is still an adequate answer but this brings into more focus why we feel strength in groups and permanence in community and the collective conscious. Also it provides some evidence that these things are damaging.

    We have seen there may be consequences of ontological confrontation, a price to pay to be authentic and free. There is evidence that you can be happy without doing it however I would suggest that anyone who has anyone interest in self development and progression should consider asking some deep questions of oneself.

    I will remain silent on whether a state can be progressed beyond this confrontation and a cessation of anxiety until I have achieved it, regardless of whether this state is possible I suspect the journey is worthwhile.

    Peter

  2. #2

    Default Re: Ontological anxiety - Death in its many forms

    I think you don't desire a theist's answer to your question ,but what if after all ?
    I think the anxiety that you describe is not biological,I mean result of feeling yourself alone between a tribe of other humans and animals and you must survive .On the contrary it is an expression of the soul crying for an eternal confirmation of its eternal existance .In other words-its the soul's awareness that in spite the ability to live eternally as created,it may die ? And then comes the question -why should I die ?Why not continue as I feel natural to never cease existing ? And this feeling is inborn but not biological rather -inscripted spiritually .
    You might also ask yourself-if it is biological,is it overcomeable ? I mean what will grant you eternity ? You come to the only possible answer-nothing .Then you should either live with this fear forever,or reconsider your assumptions .
    Last edited by felicissimus; May 16, 2007 at 05:22 PM.
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    Denny Crane!'s Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: Ontological anxiety - Death in its many forms

    Your in the avoiding confrontation with anxiety camp then. The anxiety being biological or not is really immaterial, and the anxiety has little or nothing to do with death but causes a lot of our unease about death.

    Really its more about life than death I guess I should change the title to stop it being misleading don't know what I was thinking.

    Peter

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    Default Re: Ontological anxiety - Uncertainty

    I've always known I would die. I never truly faced this fact and explored all possibilities of my death until just a few weeks ago. The result: panic attack. I was completely debilitated, almost paralyzed by fear (anxiety in this context, yes?).

    Being a highly introverted person, the thought of never interacting with other people again didn't really bother me. What bothered me was the concept of obllivion. Living as much of my life as I do within the confines of my own head, the idea that I would one day cease to imagine, and think, was utterly horrifying. I convinced myself that no matter how I died, it would be the most painful process any person will ever experience to lose touch with their self. To cease to mentaly be.

    Sorry if this isn't entirely on topic, but I felt the need to share it after reading the article.
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  5. #5

    Default Re: Ontological anxiety - Uncertainty

    Another view is this-an anxiety is ontological,yes .The man was created satisfied of all things existing,before all of them-of the Divinity .You can easily understand that in the platonic terms-exists the ONE(greek-to en) and all things come from it and always take their life from it and have their images and ideas in it forever ,I mean if they stop participating in the One ,they somehow stop existing fully and fruitfully .This is the objective idealism that I believe you well know .This One not only holds in itself the images(greek-eidos) of all things but also does it for eternity .It is considered to be as water coming out of a source or a matrix that smiths everything constantly . So the things that stop participating in the One ,feel a lack of water and life ...shrink in abilities and power and become aware of it . And that naturally causes anxiety .Only these that restore the communion with God-the One, like the saints ,overcome it .This is shortly ,I believe there may be much eloquently said about this from a view of the ob.idealism and in better english than mine
    Last edited by felicissimus; May 16, 2007 at 05:40 PM.
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    Denny Crane!'s Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: Ontological anxiety - Uncertainty

    No that is spot on what you are experiencing their is the fear of ceasing to be. I think it is something anyone could identify with, but beyond the actual fear of death I think it is worth digging to find out what causes this fear and how to move past it.

    Fel: I am sorry I know English is not your first language, when discussing philosophy though it becomes quite difficult to understand.

    Peter
    Last edited by Denny Crane!; May 16, 2007 at 05:46 PM.

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    Pnutmaster's Avatar Dominus Qualitatium
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    Default Re: Ontological anxiety - Uncertainty

    One who appreciates Buddhism and Existentialism, eh? I know a short story that might be up your alley, if you haven't already encountered it in your studies...

    Teddy by J.D Salinger. I don't recall if the main character ponders his ownmost Possibility (I wonder if that phrase flows any better in German...); worth a read nonetheless.
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    Default Re: Ontological anxiety - Uncertainty

    What about the very ontological strangeness of the universe being at all? Why should it exist? Saying 'oh, the Big Bang made it and it all developed from there' may be descriptively correct, but it begs the question instead of actually answering it. Why should there be any matter to explode in a Big Bang initiating the forces of time and space? For all we know 'being' extends beyond the limits of human perception - of what we can see, feel, detect through mechanical observations. For me this kind of immense ineffability, this unknowability, dissolves anxiety about death completely, because it reminds me of one simple and irrefutable truth: I don't matter. I'm unimportant. "The universe was not made you in mind." There's nothing for you to worry about. You concentrate on what's in front of you at any given moment, and let the cosmic matters take care of themselves, since it's intrinsically impossible for you to even understand them.

    Now, if there were an afterlife then it could only be an alternative form of existence which is also wholly ineffable and incomprehensible to the human mind. The 'you' which would be existing after your physical death would not even be your consciousness as you understand it, since we know that consciousness is generated from wholly physical causes (i.e. electrical patterns in the brain) and can be modified by surgical intervention. In short, whether there is an afterlife or not, there's no need at all to be afraid about. It's just one of those things, and since you can't know if there's an afterlife or not anyway, what does it matter?

    By the way, Crab Apple Tea - I experienced exactly the symptoms you described periodically from the ages 8-21, so you're not alone. I thought about death so much that it consumed my entire life. Then I finally got onto anti-depressants for a while and spent several months rebuilding my ideas - and the sensation of relief as it began to sink in that there really was nothing meaningful to worry about was profound.

    Oh, and read the Rubai'iyat of Omar Khayyam. I found them a tremendous inspiration.
    Last edited by Cluny the Scourge; May 16, 2007 at 08:52 PM.
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    Sadreddine's Avatar Lost in a Paradise Lost
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    Default Re: Ontological anxiety - Uncertainty

    Quote Originally Posted by Cluny the Scourge View Post
    Oh, and read the Rubai'iyat of Omar Khayyam. I found them a tremendous inspiration.
    Heh, that ol' drunk poet/scholar. I've seen very few people with such an obsession for wine in a culture that heavily discourages/prohibits drinking alcohol

    There is wisdom in the Rubai'iyat, but reading literally can make you consider commiting suicide before you even realize it...

    A bit depressing at times, I would say.
    Struggling by the Pen since February 2007.

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    Kino's Avatar Citizen
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    Default Re: Ontological anxiety - Uncertainty

    Quote Originally Posted by Cluny the Scourge View Post
    What about the very ontological strangeness of the universe being at all? Why should it exist? Saying 'oh, the Big Bang made it and it all developed from there' may be descriptively correct, but it begs the question instead of actually answering it. Why should there be any matter to explode in a Big Bang initiating the forces of time and space? For all we know 'being' extends beyond the limits of human perception - of what we can see, feel, detect through mechanical observations. For me this kind of immense ineffability, this unknowability, dissolves anxiety about death completely, because it reminds me of one simple and irrefutable truth: I don't matter. I'm unimportant. "The universe was not made you in mind." There's nothing for you to worry about. You concentrate on what's in front of you at any given moment, and let the cosmic matters take care of themselves, since it's intrinsically impossible for you to even understand them.

    Now, if there were an afterlife then it could only be an alternative form of existence which is also wholly ineffable and incomprehensible to the human mind. The 'you' which would be existing after your physical death would not even be your consciousness as you understand it, since we know that consciousness is generated from wholly physical causes (i.e. electrical patterns in the brain) and can be modified by surgical intervention. In short, whether there is an afterlife or not, there's no need at all to be afraid about. It's just one of those things, and since you can't know if there's an afterlife or not anyway, what does it matter?
    This is how I feel. Death has no anxiety over me because I've accepted the thinking above. I may fear death when it is near, but it don't bother me to know I'll eventually cease being. Whether the afterlife is there is not important as there is no knowing. So I adjust, accept and work with what I do know. I have no inner anxiety.

    If I am skipping over something that would cause me to have anxiety...keep it to yourself.
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  11. #11

    Default Re: Ontological anxiety - Uncertainty

    I've always questioned existence without the fear of death. Maybe, as you say, it is because I take the role of the observer and not as part of the experiment. Maybe it's because I am still young. But my ontological anxiety has nothing to do with the pressures of dying; it has to do with the pressures of living.
    Unlike Siblesz I am deeply engrossed in experiencing this "experiment" as much as i possibly can. In this vein the idea of ontological anxiety (as much as i can grasp of it) comes into play quite significantly. On the one hand the awareness of death is obviously a huge inspiration to participate even further in the game of life.

    But on the other hand life becomes a pressured race to do as much as possible before the ever growing presence of non existence hits and takes it all away.

    In many ways living life with this sort of awareness only exacerbates my anxiety, im afraid i don't have the intellectual constitution to look on death with complete ambivalence.

    I hope I can develop enough to accept the inspiration of non existance without the depression but i think ill be taking baby steps. As a sworn romantic im still in love with the idea of immortilisation. Unfortunately an idea that is completely incompatible with the real world if you think about it for more than a minute. But hey im always guilty of hypocracy, today ill add gravedigging to the list.

    (I don't think i have quite grasped the idea of ontological anxiety fully so any pointers or help would be appreciated)

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    Siblesz's Avatar I say it's coming......
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    Default Re: Ontological anxiety - Uncertainty

    I've always questioned existence without the fear of death. Maybe, as you say, it is because I take the role of the observer and not as part of the experiment. Maybe it's because I am still young. But my ontological anxiety has nothing to do with the pressures of dying; it has to do with the pressures of living. And on that note, I quote Wagner's Tristan and Isolde:

    "Through the gates of death when it flowed into me, wide open it unlocked for me my waking dream of other times, the magic realm of night."
    -Wagner, 'Die Alte Weise'

    Here's a relevant essay called, 'Redemption Revalued in Tristan und Isolde: Schopenhauer, Wagner, Nietzsche' that I think you might consider extremely interesting a read...
    http://progressiveindependent.com/dc...&topic_id=4936
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    Denny Crane!'s Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: Ontological anxiety - Uncertainty

    Quote Originally Posted by Siblesz View Post
    I've always questioned existence without the fear of death. Maybe, as you say, it is because I take the role of the observer and not as part of the experiment. Maybe it's because I am still young. But my ontological anxiety has nothing to do with the pressures of dying; it has to do with the pressures of living. And on that note, I quote Wagner's Tristan and Isolde:

    "Through the gates of death when it flowed into me, wide open it unlocked for me my waking dream of other times, the magic realm of night."
    -Wagner, 'Die Alte Weise'
    As I said of course ontological anxiety is all about the fear of living and the realisation of consciousness, it is where the fear of death is sourced not an effect but a cause.



    Here's a relevant essay called, 'Redemption Revalued in Tristan und Isolde: Schopenhauer, Wagner, Nietzsche' that I think you might consider extremely interesting a read...
    http://progressiveindependent.com/dc...&topic_id=4936
    Cheers Sib I will peruse this.

    Peter

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    Denny Crane!'s Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: Ontological anxiety - Uncertainty

    I was kind of hoping someone was an existentialist and could put me straight on it. I'll try and lay out a basic idea of what it is and isn't using the appendix of a book I've just ordered as a guide:

    As we have seen there are three things to consider in this subject, our fear of ceasing to be, the biological fear of death and ontological anxiety

    REPRESSING OUR FEAR OF CEASING-TO-BE

    A. Death is a Completion, a Fulfillment, a Culmination.
    B. Death is a Sleep.
    C. Death Happens to the 'They'.

    REPRESSING OUR ONTOLOGICAL ANXIETY
    A. Death is a Transformation—Religious Illusions about Death.
    1. Immorality.
    2. Resurrection.
    3. Reincarnation.

    DISTINGUISHING THE TWO DEEPER DIMENSIONS OF DEATH

    Differentiating between the fear of ceasing to be and ontological anxiety

    1. Ceasing-to-Be Threatens Specific Values.
    2. The Fear of Ceasing-to-Be Always Has a Cause.
    3. The Fear of Ceasing-to-Be is Temporary.
    4. The Fear of Ceasing-to-Be is Limited and Isolatable.
    5. The Fear of Ceasing-to-Be Can be Confronted.


    This is an interesting work I found on the subject.


    ONTOLOGICAL ANXIETY AS THE IMPETUS FOR AUTHENTICITY

    A. Conformity, Inauthenticity, Lostness.

    We were born into a world of quiet conformity.
    Initially everything we do and say and think and believe
    have been done and said and thought and believed before.
    The activities we regard as worthy of our time and effort (learning, work, play),
    the ultimate values and meanings we pursue (achievement, love, children),
    and the particular styles and forms thru which we pursue these goals
    have all been provided by our various human cultures.
    How different our lives are from the lives of ancient 'cavemen'!

    Unless we find ways to wrest control of our own lives from society,
    all of our decisions will continue to be made for us
    by the unnoticed forces of the cultures in which we live.
    We may not be told which spouse to 'choose' or which job to take,
    but how free are we to reject both marriage and work as basic styles of life?
    How have we been carried along so successfully by culture without noticing it?

    'They' even hide the process by which 'they' have quietly relieved us
    of the 'burden' of making choices for ourselves.
    It remains a complete mystery who has really done the choosing.
    We are carried along by the 'nobody', without making any real choices,
    becoming ever more deeply ensnared in inauthenticity.
    This process can be reversed only if we explicitly
    bring ourselves back from our lostness in the 'they'.
    But this bringing-back must have that kind of being
    by the neglect of which we have lost ourselves in inauthenticity.

    [Martin Heidegger Being & Time, Macquarrie p. 312-313; Stambaugh p. 248; paraphrase]

    How can we bring ourselves back from our lostness in conformity?
    What have we neglected, which has allowed our culture to absorb us?
    How can we re-possess our lives, wrench ourselves away from the 'they'?

    B. Who Am I?

    But if we notice our conformity, inauthenticity, & lostness,
    perhaps we have the possibility of emerging from our cultural cocoon
    and creating lives that we clearly own.
    Initially we are creatures of our genetic make-up and cultural conditioning.
    And if we do not notice our conformity and find ways to retrieve our beings,
    we will remain in our culturally-given, inauthentic selves all our lives.

    However, in addition to being products of human culture,
    we are also our powerful and pervasive internal threat-to-being.
    On this foundation, we can begin to construct our Authentic Existence.

    C. How Do We Become More Authentic?

    What can reverse the process of sinking deeper and deeper into the 'they'?
    How can extract ourselves from our conformity, rise above our enculturation?
    How is it possible to become more whole, centered, & integrated
    in a world that prevents precisely these qualities from emerging?
    Beginning as conformists whose 'decisions' have already been made by culture,
    how can we become more free, unified, & focused?

    Our Existential Predicament—perceived, perhaps, as ontological anxiety—
    is the rope by which we can climb out of the pit of inauthenticity;
    it is the handle by which we can grip our own beings.

    First we must acknowledge our ontological anxiety.
    This includes peeling away the protective evasions we have so cleverly woven
    to protect ourselves from the deepest truth of our being.

    Once we have revived our ontological anxiety, we must keep it alive,
    not allow it to die away into comfortable obscurity once again.
    Instead of letting our being-towards-death fade back
    into the diversionary small-talk of the 'they',
    we must focus our lives around this 'threat'.
    Then our ontological anxiety can become the light of our being
    —purifying, refining, & integrating
    our otherwise diffuse, preoccupied, & fragmented existence.
    In the light (or in the shadow) of this constant internal threat-to-being,
    we are empowered to choose our Authentic projects-of-being
    —those basic endeavors that correlate best with our ontological anxiety.
    Returning to this deepest truth of our being can bring us back to ourselves.




    To try and develop this further I am going to prepare a rather large piece of writing on the differences in existential on ontological anxiety as well.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Ontological anxiety - Uncertainty

    @Seneca,

    Born, Old, Ill and Death.

    (The root of Fear)

  16. #16

    Default Re: Ontological anxiety - Uncertainty

    @Seneca,

    I found this article:

    The Buddha's Silence

    When the questioner himself was not in a position to understand the real significance of the answer to his question and when the questions posed to Him were wrong, the Buddha remained silent.

    The scriptures mention a few occasions when the Buddha remained silent to questions posed to Him. Some scholars, owing to their misunderstanding of the Buddha's silence, came to the hasty conclusion that the Buddha was unable to answer to these questions. While it is true that on several occasions the Buddha did not respond to these metaphysical and speculative questions, there are reasons why the Buddha kept noble silence.

    When the Buddha knew that the questioner was not in a position to understand the answer to the question because of its profundity, of if the questions themselves were wrongly put in the first place, the Blessed One remained silent. Some of the questions to which the Buddha remained silent are as following:

    Is the universe eternal?
    Is it not eternal?
    Is the universe finite?
    Is it infinite?

    Is soul the same as the body?
    Is the soul one thing and the body another?

    Does the Tathagata exist after death?
    Does He not exist after death?
    Does He both (at the same time) exist and not exist after death?
    Does He both (at the same time) neither exist nor not exist?

    ....

    http://www.budsas.org/ebud/whatbudbeliev/34.htm

  17. #17
    Ummon's Avatar Indefinitely Banned
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    Default Re: Ontological anxiety - Uncertainty

    It's an interesting thing that ontological anxiety. It's been ages since I have been experiencing something like that. Even in the face of recent illness, which may have caused my death or permanent disability, though the possibility of the former was remote to say the least, I don't remember anything like that.

    Anyhow, Heidegger is not particularly good as a philosopher, IMHO, nor is any existentialist after him. Just for having co-caused the appearance Sartre's works, the punishment of Heidegger is ensured for all eternity. Mediocrity, mediocrity. :wink:

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