Do you think that belief in God is logical?

[TheKwas]

I've been getting in some debates with some other posters on some other boards and lately I've gotten a few to admit that belief in God is illogical, but they still believe in God based on pure faith. Now I simply couldn't understand such a position and there was no real way for me to attack it. How can I debate someone if we can't even agree on the logical rules of debate?

So this is a question, how many of you theists agree that belief in God is illogical, and how many of you think that belief in god is totally justified logically.

[Darth Wong]

Believe it or not, some people actually oppose the use of logic. This was once common practice; as Martin Luther said, Reason is the enemy of faith.

[Lord Bohemond]

Believe it or not, some people actually oppose the use of logic. This was once common practice; as Martin Luther said, Reason is the enemy of faith.

Believe it or not, these people consistently defeat the people who do believe in logic. Both demographically and in war.

[Lord Condormanius]

I think it really depends on the person. It is possible to have faith in something that is not logical. Likewise, it is possible do disbelieve something that is logical. Logic is relative, IMO.

I think that it is perfectly logical that God exists. On the other hand, one can logically say that the entire world is the result of a chemical reaction that happened a long, long time ago. In fact, one can logically say that both are true.

However, I do not believe it is possible to prove that God does not exist. But that is true of many things.

"God is a concept by which we measure our pain." -John Lennon

[enoch]

Believe it or not, these people consistently defeat the people who do believe in logic. Both demographically and in war.

you mean, people who use logic to manipulate the inherently religious <(openness to religion is biological/ cutting edge but we are studying it and have determined that there is a biological factor)> beat people who use logic to manipulate the unreligious

it's still pragmatists in charge baby, and religion is antithesis to pragmatism

and I know, you are screaming where is the evidence, what is your source

my source is god baby, il popa

not only were the majority of them unchristian in there personal lives, but all the ones who got anything done were as religious as Darth Wong, and maybe even as smart



I still think I am right about the messenger

[bdh]

As a theist, I fall firmly into the "God is illogical" category.

[enoch]

its not supposed to be logical, that is something people who can't deal with the irrationality of it think up

if there is a god[s], IT is so beyond our understanding that not even logic would be enough for us to determine whether or not a belief in IT was logical

[Darth Wong]

if there is a god[s], IT is so beyond our understanding that not even logic would be enough for us to determine whether or not a belief in IT was logical

Since logic is a ruleset, it can most certainly determine whether a particular belief is logical, no matter how incomprehensible that belief is. In fact, belief in an incomprehensible idea is definitely illogical because you don't even know exactly what you're believing in.

[enoch]

thus logic can never used to determine the logic of the belief in god until we understand what god is

[Darth Wong]

thus logic can never used to determine the logic of the belief in god until we understand what god is

Incorrect. Belief in a concept you do not understand is definitely illogical, because you do not even know exactly what it is that you believe in. Logic defines whether conclusions follow from premises. You are saying that when comprehension is impossible, logic cannot declare whether the conclusions logically follow from the premises, but it most certainly can: by definition, without comprehension they must not logically follow from the premises, because reasoning requires comprehension.

[turtle]

I don't think the belief in mainstream concepts of God, such as Christian/Catholic etc, Muslim, Judaism beliefs go is logical at all. There are other concepts of God that seem to make more sense than the others. Such as the Native belief in a Creator, which has come to be closer to what I think than any other. Most likely becuase the belief in Creator is not a belief that it is a God at all... more like an entity, or an existence of some kind. Their belief is almost an agnostic one... depending on the tribe. They look at the Creator as an occurance or a thing, something they have no idea about, but something they respect as being there non-the-less. They don't look at it as something concrete, as other monotheistic religions do, they hold their views in a much more open minded manner. I'm not saying I believe what most northern Native peoples believe, I'm just saying they seem to be on the right track, when thinking of higher beings or higher forms of existence.

To believe in something you have no understanding of is and always will be illogical, for the very fact that you believe it without substantiation. Now, having ideas and theories about something you have no understanding/comprehension of is not illogical, it is very logically openminded. Well, that's what I think anyways.

[VoodooTengo]

The belief in God is completely logical. Everything must come from something.

[Sétanta]

Uh, yeah. Of course it is logical. Faith is just one aspect of knowing God.

[enoch]

Incorrect. Belief in a concept you do not understand is definitely illogical, because you do not even know exactly what it is that you believe in. Logic defines whether conclusions follow from premises. You are saying that when comprehension is impossible, logic cannot declare whether the conclusions logically follow from the premises, but it most certainly can: by definition, without comprehension they must not logically follow from the premises, because reasoning requires comprehension.

so if comprehension was somehow, someway, someday possible, and I can't be sure it isn't, then we are in a logic limbo?

[hsimoorb]

I think for it to be considered logical you'd have to be able to prove God exists. All arguments that I've ever heard that supposedly prove God's existence don't seem to hold much weight. The most commonly used reasons are 'well we came from somewhere, therefore there must be a sentient, moralistic being that created us'. Hard to say that's a logical belief.

Either way, I think religion does have merit on it's own. I'd even go so far as to say that the practice religion may be justifyed by logic, but belief in "God" will always be a thing of faith IMO.

[Sosobra]

About as logical as a child's belief in the tooth fairy.

[Zuwxiv]

Had the existence of God been provable by logic, the necessity of faith would be irrelevant. It is absolutely critical that, if there is a God, His existence is not provable. Would religion matter if you knew the Answer? How would you act if you knew for certain that there was a God and also knew exactly what would condemn you?

That said, a belief in a higher power doesn't have to be illogical or crazy. I think that there is logical evidence for the existence of a God, but that evidence is not conclusive.

Unfortunately, people use that evidence for political goals rather than finite or philosophical arguments. See "Intelligent Design" - I think it has some (not many, but some) legitimate arguments. But I am ardently against Intelligent Design because its purpose is political rather than idealistic.

(Sorry if that isn't very readable)

[Irishman]

Believe it or not, these people consistently defeat the people who do believe in logic. Both demographically and in war.

But not in intellectual debate...

Before I offer a retort, are you using this as an example as support for these believers or just stating trivia?

The belief in God is completely logical. Everything must come from something.

This argument is self defeating and has been proved wrong many many times.

Think about what you just said, EVERYTHING MUST COME FROM SOMETHING (All objects are such that they all have a cause) BUT you will then contend that God (an object) does not have a cause! Hmmm...

Also, the only logical contradiction to the causless universe is if an infinite temporal regress is impossible, but if you claim this, God is also impossible, because in order act, God must be in time, thus, an infinite temporal regress exists.

There is no contradiction to an infinite universe, thus:

It is possible that something exist without cause (note that by saying that God is special and doesnt follow the same rules as the universe, you are making an inherently illogical statement.)

So you are, by using this argument, offering illogical reasoning for God's existence.

[Sadreddine]

This argument is self defeating and has been proved wrong many many times.

Think about what you just said, EVERYTHING MUST COME FROM SOMETHING (All objects are such that they all have a cause) BUT you will then contend that God (an object) does not have a cause! Hmmm...

Also, the only logical contradiction to the causless universe is if an infinite temporal regress is impossible, but if you claim this, God is also impossible, because in order act, God must be in time, thus, an infinite temporal regress exists.

There is no contradiction to an infinite universe, thus:

It is possible that something exist without cause (note that by saying that God is special and doesnt follow the same rules as the universe, you are making an inherently illogical statement.)

So you are, by using this argument, offering illogical reasoning for God's existence.

As in the past, you again commit the mistake to equate an originated act (or knowledge about an act) to an non-originated act (or knowledge of an act), which is in fact the cause of every originated act (or knowledge of an act). There is no change in the Eternal act, or knowledge, whenever an individual act, or knowledge, happens inside the flow of time. Therefore your logic is flawed. And I'm referring specifically to your logic, note that, and not Objective, Perfect (not reachable by humans) Logic. You will refuse to acknowledge this simple truth, but anyway.

We have discussed this issue before, but I cannot be bothered about finding the link. There is no way however theists and atheists can come up to an agreement in this matter because their starting hypothesis are mutually exclusive.

If anyone who is reading this thread is really interested in logic applied to the existence of God, I suggest taking a look at Trascendent Philosophy/Theosophy. The mere existence of this "school of thought" shows that belief in God can be perfectly logical even for us humans. Disagreement of any kind, however, will always occur.

[Darth Wong]

It's pretty sad when someone cites the fact that believers tend to violently destroy unbelievers as proof that the belief is logical. "We're more logical because we'll KILL you!"