Hungary / Russia

**UhOhIt'sAnArrow** · May 15, 2007, 03:51 PM

Ok so I'm kind of wondering your strategies for these two factions, because I can't seem to grip them.

With Russia and Hungary all I can do is use their semi good missle cavalry, and their infantry just die, any tips?

**Zadig** · May 15, 2007, 03:54 PM

well in late game russia get really good cavalry (Dvors, Cossacks and Tsars Guard)
They also get really good artillery, the best aswell as musketeers and cossack musketeers which are really good.
They're infantry are Ok berdiche axemen are ok and Dvor infantry can do a lot of damage at long range and at close combat.

**Snipafist** · May 15, 2007, 05:14 PM

Russia is definitely not an early-game faction. I'd advise expanding mostly east (definitely grab Riga though, and Kiev if you can manage it) in the early game and wait it out. Poland is a tough nut to crack in the early game with your limited resources. Their cav, however, is pretty good the whole game through. While stat-wise it's fairly tame, the fact that they boast so many ranged cavalry options will keep you pretty darn competitive in the field. It's on the attack against non-rebel factions (especially in cities) that your poor early-game infantry becomes a major problem. Still, woodsmen are pretty darned effective, if extremely fragile, troops and can serve in a pinch.

**big_feef** · May 15, 2007, 05:44 PM

My experiences with Hungary is that they have decent cavalry and decent infantry; but you can get eaten up by everyone else around you because they have better. As Hungary, you have to really watch out for Poland and Venice; who have superior troops: Poland has better cavalry, Venice has better infantry. If the Byzantines get strong (they also have a solid roster) and the HRE decides to get into the mix; you're out for a long hard campaign.

Russia on the other hand is like another Turkey; they have crap at the beginning and have one of the best rosters late game. Like the Turks, you will probably have to be fighting off the Mongols with a weak unit lineup. But when you do get the goods you get the goods. Your spearmen are of the common fare, and you have very heavily armoured foot archers that can hold their own in melee. What makes you infantry roster shine is the ap units you get: Dismounted Boyar Sons and Dismounted Druzhina; who can both lay down some serious smack.

You also get some excellent horse archers with Kazaks (fast and annoying), Boyar Sons (like armoured Jinetes), Cossack Cavalry (good medium horse archers), and Dvor Cavalry (one of the best horse archers in the game). Add Druzhinas (decent heavy cavalry) and Tsar's Guards (one of the best heavy cavalry) into the mis and you have a potent mounted force.

On top of that, you get one of the best gunpowder infantry in Cossack Musketeers along with standard fare Arquebusiers.

**UhOhIt'sAnArrow** · May 15, 2007, 05:50 PM

Feef are you describing Russia or Hungary?

**big_feef** · May 15, 2007, 06:01 PM

Originally Posted by UhOhIt'sAnArrow

Feef are you describing Russia or Hungary?

Hungary first paragraph, everything else Russia. As you can probably tell, I rarely play with Hungary.

I prefer to play either Poland or Russia when I play with an Eastern European faction.

**UhOhIt'sAnArrow** · May 15, 2007, 06:34 PM

I kind of want to play as Hungary though because they can go on Crusades . . .

**Snipafist** · May 15, 2007, 07:09 PM

Originally Posted by UhOhIt'sAnArrow

I kind of want to play as Hungary though because they can go on Crusades . . .

Truth be told, I've never played as Hungary. But from fighting them, they seem to have mediocre infantry and archers plus some good missile cavalry. I'd imagine with Orthodox factions to your north, east, and south, and being the closest to the holy lands, you can manage to carve out a pretty decent empire without too much interference from the pope. Just look out for the Poles, HRE, and Venetians in the early game.

**Zhou** · May 15, 2007, 11:01 PM

Originally Posted by Snipafist

Truth be told, I've never played as Hungary. But from fighting them, they seem to have mediocre infantry and archers plus some good missile cavalry. I'd imagine with Orthodox factions to your north, east, and south, and being the closest to the holy lands, you can manage to carve out a pretty decent empire without too much interference from the pope. Just look out for the Poles, HRE, and Venetians in the early game.

Hungary is one of the harder campaigns in the game since you're surrounded with enemies at the beginning and don't have much in terms of economic and military power. Their infantry is alright though, I really like Croat Axemen because they're so darn cheap and are still fairly effective. Pavise Spearmen are also the best spearmen in the game (better then Dismounted Sipahi Lancers even) and they're not too hard to tech up to. As for heavy infantry though, Russia is definitely better as Hungary will have to rely on the standard DFK/DCK combo that other Western factions get.

One unit that most people forget to mention, but are very effective, would be the Hussars. They only require a Huge City to be created, and while their stats may seem mediocre, they are fast and have excellent morale. In fact, I think they were the reason I started a Hungarian campaign as I remember having a ton of difficulties fighting off large Hussar armies with a Sipahi-based Turkish army!

In any case, early-game Hungarian strategy should focus on battling the Byzantines while fending off all the other factions. In my campaign (on VH/VH, so the AI is relatively irrational all the time), I had to fend off attacks from the HRE, Venetians, and Polish while attacking the Byzantines. This sounds a bit harder then it is because the Poles and Venetians would only attack my capital (Budapest), which is easily defended with 1 General, 3 Spear Militia, 2 Crossbow militia (before that I used peasant or bosnian archers). Simply hold the gates with your spearmen while raining down arrows on the attacker. The AI will rush in his general first most of the time and once his general dies, there will be a mass rout and the siege is pretty much over. You just need to remember to use your generals unit to rally your troops constantly and to not be afraid to throw him into the fray when/if your lines are collapsing.

Meanwhile, I conquer the rebel provinces of Bucharest and Sofia with an army composed of 1 General, 2 Magyars, 2 Hungarian Nobles. After that, I use the same army plus 4 Croat Axemen and 2-3 slav levies to besiege Thessalonica. Usually, the Byzantines will send a relief force and I will have to fight a battle within 1-2 turns of beseiging the city. After Thessalonica, I like to go for Cornith and then Constantinople. After Constantinople, I go for the Venetians at Ragusa and Zagreb. I might also attack Vienna, Nicea, and Iraklion depending on the situation.

I think the key part of the strategy is to be able to win Thessalonica as this will be the first major source of income for you outside of Budapest. Once this and Constantinople is secured, you will be able to afford more troops to expand on more then one front at a time.

**mightyfenrir** · May 16, 2007, 08:52 AM

Originally Posted by UhOhIt'sAnArrow

I kind of want to play as Hungary though because they can go on Crusades . . .

Here's what I did with Hungary:
1) Grab Zagreb before the Venetians, Bucharest and Sofia before the Byzantines, and Kiev and the Crimean before the Polish. You then have a gold mine and four Black Sea ports.

2) Missile cavalry work just fine at harassing armies a lot until they get to your weak infantry. It's all about taking out as many men as you can while they march solidly on your infantry and artillery.

3) Any sieges, wait them out if you can. If you cannot, when they attaack drop all your siege equipment and rush your missile cavalry forward so you can create a line of defense behind all the equipment. They'll usually send horses, especially if they have missile cavalry, to try to chase down your missile cavalry. Don't worry about this. Archers backing your infantry do a lot of damage.

4) Make sure Zagreb, Sofia, and Kiev stay heavily defended. In my game the Venetians attacked me for Zagreb but finding they couldn't take it moved on to Vienna. Once they bloodied themselves at Vienna I took it from them and added significantly to my income (since the HRE had already put mines here).

5) From there it's really much of the same and if you find your infantry too weak start deploying two of each and stack them back to back like a double line but much closer for support reasons. Hungary just takes a lot of tweaking to your strengths as a strategist honestly.

**Trajan** · May 15, 2007, 07:10 PM

Moved to Battle Planning.

**UhOhIt'sAnArrow** · May 16, 2007, 03:35 PM

Well I'd like to thank a lot of you for your generous contributions, but I must ask you this.

After playing would you ever do it again? Do you think they have some good units and are good enough to stand up to Europe, or is the only reason you would ever play them again for the challenge?

**mightyfenrir** · May 16, 2007, 04:48 PM

Originally Posted by UhOhIt'sAnArrow

Well I'd like to thank a lot of you for your generous contributions, but I must ask you this.

After playing would you ever do it again? Do you think they have some good units and are good enough to stand up to Europe, or is the only reason you would ever play them again for the challenge?

Honestly I'd play them again because the start is a challenge but overall I would continue to play it because their units can and will stand up to the other European units. They may not be as strong always but they can counter them just fine... you might just need more of them, which is where that money comes in.

**Zhou** · May 16, 2007, 08:18 PM

Originally Posted by mightyfenrir

Honestly I'd play them again because the start is a challenge but overall I would continue to play it because their units can and will stand up to the other European units. They may not be as strong always but they can counter them just fine... you might just need more of them, which is where that money comes in.

Agreed completely for Hungary.

As for Russia, I think they have stronger units then most Western European factions. They have the best musketeer unit in the game in the Cossack Musketeers and they have excellent AP (armor piercing) infantry in the form of Dismounted Druzhina/Boyar Sons. They also have a good shock infantry unit, Berdiche Axemen. Dvor Cavalry are also the best hybrid horse archer too, with their heavy armor, they're very capable in hand-to-hand combat while Cossack Cavalry are excellent, lighter hybrids. In addition, Tsar Guards are very good heavy cavalry and Dvor Archers are probably the best hybrid infantry unit available. Given all that, a late game Russian army can easily (out) match anything Western Europe has to offer.

**UhOhIt'sAnArrow** · May 16, 2007, 07:57 PM

Well what I've goten out of this is basically that Hungary is weaker, as it seems most of the NE factions are lol. Thank-you all +rep for ya

**napoleonic** · May 16, 2007, 11:44 PM

Hungary : allied with western factions and crush Ruskies and Byz.....once you conquer the Black sea trade route, you'll be the richest

**mbchudno** · September 18, 2007, 04:51 PM

I don't really get why so many people complaining about Russian early power. Kazaks cost about same as most of the semi decent unit of infantry for Western European countries with low 150/turn maintenance. Army of them will easily take out equally sized army of any faction if used properly with minimal losses. If you want strong early game infantry, Russia is a wrong country to play.

The only real problem you have playing Russian campaign is the location. Your cities are underdeveloped crap spread across huge territory, you have no choice but to attack rich Poland who will attack you eventually anyway. Which makes it a little hard to maintain cheerful diplomatic relationship with Catholic countries.

Plus, you have high chance of fighting with Mongols/Tims...

**Khassaki** · September 19, 2007, 11:22 PM

Originally Posted by mbchudno

I don't really get why so many people complaining about Russian early power. Kazaks cost about same as most of the semi decent unit of infantry for Western European countries with low 150/turn maintenance. Army of them will easily take out equally sized army of any faction if used properly with minimal losses. If you want strong early game infantry, Russia is a wrong country to play.

The only real problem you have playing Russian campaign is the location. Your cities are underdeveloped crap spread across huge territory, you have no choice but to attack rich Poland who will attack you eventually anyway. Which makes it a little hard to maintain cheerful diplomatic relationship with Catholic countries.

Plus, you have high chance of fighting with Mongols/Tims...

I always find the russian start quite sedate. Build a port in Novgorod or use a merc fleet to ship the army that took helsinki to Stockholm, then stomp over and take Oslo. Once you have Riga, Vilnius, Smolensk, Moskow, Kiev, Reazan and Caffa as well, you just need to build up and wait for somebody to attack you.

**dome** · September 20, 2007, 01:07 AM

Hi!

I'dont realy understand you guys saying that the hungarian campaign is so hard... Maybe because I'm a hungarian and I used to plan with a huge force of light cavalry

So the biggest advantege with that faction is the early missile cavalry! You can train hung nobl and magyar cav in the very beginning of the game and 6 or 8 of them simply shoot the well equipped infantry of venice or Byzantine empire in pieces. So ,what you western people have to do :change your mind! Try to use the light cavalry ! Anyways we are making the magyar mod 1.3 with and we had changed all units! We created the real hungarian cavalry ! Infantry we had just from the early XV. century...
so fight on

regards

dome

**mbchudno** · September 21, 2007, 10:54 AM

Originally Posted by Khassaki

I always find the russian start quite sedate. Build a port in Novgorod or use a merc fleet to ship the army that took helsinki to Stockholm, then stomp over and take Oslo. Once you have Riga, Vilnius, Smolensk, Moskow, Kiev, Reazan and Caffa as well, you just need to build up and wait for somebody to attack you.

Hmm... thats interesting way. I never tried to go north. Will definitely try it. Rich polish cities are sooo sexy though and give you very good start into the Europe. It so hard to resist. They attack you very soon though anyway. Impossible to maintain peace with Poland with Russia. Do you manage to stay friends with Danes or take them out when you go that way?