Kingdom of Greater Armenia

[SicilianVespers]

Use this thread to discuss, and post your contribution regarding the Kingdom of Greater Armenia.

[Drtad]

I believe the most accurate term would actually be, the Kingdom of Greater Armenia.

Can't wait for Armenios to fill up the thread with info! I am curious myself.

[ARMENIOS]

I need couple of days to finish staff with Cilicia in other Mods then I'll post all information and pics here about Great Armenia during Bagratuni time...

[Tadzreuli]

what about "Greater Armenia" is this topic? of medieval Caucasus Armenia? but in fact, last Caucasian armenian state, kingdom of Ani abolished in 1065 ad ?!

[SicilianVespers]

what about "Greater Armenia" is this topic? of medieval Caucasus Armenia? but in fact, last Caucasian armenian state, kingdom of Ani abolished in 1065 ad ?!

This covers the Bagratuni dynasty 885 - 1045, so it would include Ani.

[Drtad]

what about "Greater Armenia" is this topic? of medieval Caucasus Armenia? but in fact, last Caucasian armenian state, kingdom of Ani abolished in 1065 ad ?!

1064 AD. Yes, as SV said, he will include a dark ages campaign from 888, when the Bagratuni dynasty was just founded.

[ARMENIOS]

To finish stuff with Armenian Cilicia is taking more time then I'd calculate.

I'll post some pics and information as the start of this thread.

1) Symbol of Bagratuni



2) Stone with Bagratuni symbol from X AD


3) This picturs is from Egvard's church wall (XIII AD)


4) Armenian Khachqar- (Crosstone) from Bagartnus time


CAPITAL -- KARS AND LATER -- ANI
THE MAP OF ARMENIAN FEUDAL KINGDOM 1000 AD



MORE TO COME IN MY NEXT POST...

[ARMENIOS]

SicilianVespers

I wanted to ask you about 2 stuff before posting more information with pictures

1) How many regions will Great Armenia have, which one, citys and castles?

2) Will you include some units from Armenian Cilicia?

[SicilianVespers]

SicilianVespers

I wanted to ask you about 2 stuff before posting more information with pictures

1) How many regions will Great Armenia have, which one, citys and castles?

2) Will you include some units from Armenian Cilicia?

I haven't started the Darkage campaign yet, so that is TBD. All the campaigns will share the same EDU, so the Cilician units will still be available. We will have to decide which eras to limit them to.

[IrAr]

The problem with Kilikia is that its military was very, very influenced by the west in that it used a lot of infantry. In Greater Armenia, the most common troops were cavalry, with only infantry being dismounted cavalrymen.

[ARMENIOS]

The problem with Kilikia is that its military was very, very influenced by the west in that it used a lot of infantry. In Greater Armenia, the most common troops were cavalry, with only infantry being dismounted cavalrymen.

You are wrong, Great Armenia had good/strong/powerful/etc infantry units to (if you want I can bring you alots of information with pics), but the head (most imporatnt) units were Medium and especially Heavy-Armour cavalry units, if we'll talk by numbers then 60% (and maybe over) Cavalry - 40% Infantry, Armenian Kingdom of Cilica (due to Western influenced) had 50% Strong and different Cavalry units - 50% strong (westren infuenced) Infantry units...

So simply we don't need to include to much western infuenced infantry (and some cavalry units) to this mod (Great Armenia). Soon I'll post the list of Great Armenian's units...

[SicilianVespers]

You are wrong, Great Armenia had good/strong/powerful/etc infantry units to (if you want I can bring you alots of information with pics), but the head (most imporatnt) units were Medium and especially Heavy-Armour cavalry units, if we'll talk by numbers then 60% (and maybe over) Cavalry - 40% Infantry, Armenian Kingdom of Cilica (due to Western influenced) had 50% Strong and different Cavalry units - 50% strong (westren infuenced) Infantry units...

So simply we don't need to include to much western infuenced infantry (and some cavalry units) to this mod (Great Armenia). Soon I'll post the list of Great Armenian's units...

Weren't the best "Byzantine" Skoutatoi Armenian? next to the Sicilian Greeks of course It took the Arabs 141 years to conquer Sicily They conquered Visigothic Spain with one battle.

Also, I am going to add the Bagratuni symbol to the Armenian banners.

[ARMENIOS]

Weren't the best "Byzantine" Skoutatoi Armenian? next to the Sicilian Greeks of course It took the Arabs 141 years to conquer Sicily They conquered Visigothic Spain with one battle.

Also, I am going to add the Bagratuni symbol to the Armenian banners.

Yes, that's right, only thing which Great Armenia lacked are late periods (western infuenced) infantry, good gunpodwer (late period) and some (again western infuenced) cavalry units...

Soon I'll post the an approximate list of Armenian units.

BTW may I suggest which colours to use for Armenian units in Great Armenia?

[Primvs Sextvs Loverlord]

Just wondering ... At the end of the campaign, can we have a bunch of Turks enter the area and commit a genocide? Just a thought ...

[Drtad]

Yes, from my perspective I'd think that in this era, there was still Western influence in Armenia. I mean, in a lot of trade notes from the Bagratuni time they are using ducats (!!!) as the currency. Interestingly enough, I saw an inscription on the wall of a church, which had a depiction of two Armenian horseman fighting a dragon, and they looked just like Western knights! With the cloth over the horse and everything. It would be cool to have a sort of "Armenian Knight" unit. For the cloth, perhaps you could get an example from the picture Armenios posted of the Nakharar at the Battle of Kulikovo? You know, with the blue and the white designs on it?

Another note, Bagratuni Armenia had no standing army, it was all militia that could be quickly raised, so I am thinking a lot of them were militia infantry, while the nobles were mounted.

[ARMENIOS]

Yes, from my perspective I'd think that in this era, there was still Western influence in Armenia. I mean, in a lot of trade notes from the Bagratuni time they are using ducats (!!!) as the currency. Interestingly enough, I saw an inscription on the wall of a church, which had a depiction of two Armenian horseman fighting a dragon, and they looked just like Western knights! With the cloth over the horse and everything. It would be cool to have a sort of "Armenian Knight" unit. For the cloth, perhaps you could get an example from the picture Armenios posted of the Nakharar at the Battle of Kulikovo? You know, with the blue and the white designs on it?

Another note, Bagratuni Armenia had no standing army, it was all militia that could be quickly raised, so I am thinking a lot of them were militia infantry, while the nobles were mounted.

I know my dear friend, that's why I used word SOME in my previous post. Just be a litle bit patient and you will see & read about Great Armenias units

[ARMENIOS]

Here is the list of Armenian units of Great Armenia:

Ayrudzi- (“cavalry”)- all cavalry units.


Aspatak – light cavalry unit

Medium Mountaineer Cavalry- with Spears

Medium Mountaineer Cavalry- with Axes

Azat Heavy Cavalry- with Swords

Aspet Heavy Cavalry- with Lancers

Nakharar Heavy Cavalry- with Mace

Sepuh Heavy Cavalry- with Lancer & Swords- for close combat

Malkhazakan Heavy Cavalry- (“The Royal Guard”)- with Knights

Sparapetakan Heavy Cavalry- (“Army commander with his bodyguards”)-

Medium Mountaineer Missile Cavalry

Medium (City) Missile Cavalry

Heavy Missile Cavalry- turkish-mongolian type.


Hetevak- (or Hetelazor, “infantry”)- all infantry unts.


Shinakan Zorq- light infantry units- peasants.

Ashkharazor- medium infantry units- town militia

Medium Mountaineer Spearmen

Heavy (City) Spearmen

Shertavor Zorq Medium/Heavy- with Axes

Wishaps (in translation "Dragons", storm and protect units for castleswalls, citywalls etc) Medium/Heavy infantry special recreated from Armenian highlands, head task to storm or protect walls.

Kentronakan Gund- (heavy infantry “the central force”)- the elite of infantry units.

Dismounted Azat Heavy Infantry- with Swords

Nakharars Dismounted Heavy Infantry- with Maces

Malkhazakan Gund- Heavy foot Knights


Netadziqner – ("Aarchers")- all infantry archer units.

Medium Mountaineer Archers

Medium (City) Archers

Heavy Longbowmen Archers- Mongolian type/model with good skills in close combat.

Mountaineer Crossbows

Mountaineer Handgunners (late period)

Melik Handgunners- aristocrats with better guns and armour- similar to turk yanichars.




Soon I'll post pics with information and some suggestions.

[Drtad]

Here is a nice map I found of Bagratid Armenia when it was just founded by Ashot, so this should be most relevant to the Dark Age campaign:

[Reaper]

The other map seems to present Bagratid Armenia as a unified nation, but this one doesn't. How much authority did the central Bagratid government really have over the others (Syunik, Taron, etc.)?