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  1. #1

    Default why do we worship dickheads?

    why do we worship dickheads?

    believe in yourself... unless you are someone whom already does!

    are all ‘great’ people actually idiots; sure people like Alexander, Caesar, Genghis khan and yes Hitler all have their cool side and did much to change the world, but did the world ever need changing. we worship others because a part of us wants to be that great person - someone special and whom can make a difference, if we cannot be ‘the one’, then most people want that little bit of power derived from such people who appear to be giving us what we want.
    this doesn’t just apply in militaristic terms, but on a religious and societal level too, think of all the bands you like there is always some dick who is leading them or a charismatic figure of some kind. of course we do need to look to others for inspiration knowledge and wisdom, i feel though that this is better achieved on an impersonal level as it is in education for example. even here we are taught ‘the lessons of the one’ - that history is made up of individuals that made a difference, that the kings and queens generals and great teachers are the important people we need to learn by. the thing is that they don’t do it on their own! great teachers learn from all the people they meet on their journeys.

    there is another level to this; ‘persona homogenization’, when you follow a given other you become part of that group collective, and this penetrates a lot deeper into the individual and collective psyche that one would think. allow me to give you a rather messed up example; i met this fecked up hippy once at a tube station, he came up to me and said hello i am Jesus Christ, woah i thought but being the young and rather cheeky punk rocker that i was then, i merely retorted ‘have you got 10p mate’. we had a little conversation and the chap actually seamed quite sane and that he actually believed he was Jesus, and to all appearances he did appear to be like what i would perceive Jesus to be! i was an anarchist at the time and this little encounter suggested to me that people lost a degree of their individuality when then become part of a group.the degree in which this applies would then be respective to how deeply merged into that group persona they become. now as ever these things are circular and then the opposite is true, thus if we are completely hermetic and close ourselves off we ‘loose touch’ with reality which can lead to an individualised form of the same madness which occurs in cults when a collective become embroiled in the extremes thereof. we may note that whatever the given cult/group collective believes in, it will be extraneous to the the general societal group collective.
    all in then there is a balance to be struck between how much we immerse ourselves in ourselves and in any kind of group sensibility, behaviourisms and psyche.

    so how do you see the constructs of history and the individual?
    Formerly quetzalcoatl. Proud leader of STW3 and member of the RTR, FATW and QNS teams.

  2. #2
    Khosson's Avatar Miles
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    Default Re: why do we worship dickheads?

    Quote Originally Posted by Quetzalcoatl View Post
    all in then there is a balance to be struck between how much we immerse ourselves in ourselves and in any kind of group sensibility, behaviourisms and psyche.

    so how do you see the constructs of history and the individual?
    Yes,balance is the key to everything.COuld you please rephrase the question in the end.I don't quite get it.

  3. #3

    Default Re: why do we worship dickheads?

    firstly my appologies for topic title, i could have used something more intellectual but i found this meant what was meant best.

    khosson
    what i meant for the end question is that; i am visualising history as like a tree of events composed of mainly the ‘important individuals’, whereas it is perhaps made up of every one as the human effort is entire.
    Formerly quetzalcoatl. Proud leader of STW3 and member of the RTR, FATW and QNS teams.

  4. #4
    Khosson's Avatar Miles
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    Default Re: why do we worship dickheads?

    Quote Originally Posted by Quetzalcoatl View Post

    khosson
    what i meant for the end question is that; i am visualising history as like a tree of events composed of mainly the ‘important individuals’, whereas it is perhaps made up of every one as the human effort is entire.
    I understand.Well...it is composed of all the humans...but we see easier the dickheads as you put it
    Thanks for explainig.

  5. #5
    Dunecat's Avatar Praefectus
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    Default Re: why do we worship dickheads?

    I think there are some people worth "worshiping" , and the more I get older the more I see his audacity... To blatantly believe in something better, despite many don't agree with his culture's customs. He wanted something better not just for him, or his friends... but for those who had none. THAT is something worth devoting your life to, because it is selfless, it is just, and it constructs a better tomorrow.

    Who am I talking about? John Lennon? Ghandi? No... Jesus. Even to someone who has no belief in him, or even his existence, to refute his sheer audacity, and his love... I couldn't imagine. If not as a man, than as an ideal. What else is worth living for than something greater than oneself? If we agree the message to be true... Why should we discard it?

    Note: This is not a theological challenge, as many humanistic values Jesus supported. He could be considered a deranged kook who got lucky, but I doubt many people who aren't arguing for it's own sake would decry his main message about life... That of selfless service and humility, of love and caring, of no boundaries to society, no barriers of discrimination...

  6. #6
    Last Roman's Avatar ron :wub:in swanson
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    Default Re: why do we worship dickheads?

    because ordinary people are boring.
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  7. #7

    Default Re: why do we worship dickheads?

    Define worship?
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  8. #8

    Default Re: why do we worship dickheads?

    LR
    we are all ordinary people i don’t think we are boring! i would rather be in a pub with you lot... hmm nah bollocks i would rather be sat drinking with alexander the great and co.

    ronnec
    good point, i think he was great too [as a human being] - and napoleon, audacity is exiting!

    davis deas
    worship; revere, appreciate, like, love, emulate etc.
    Formerly quetzalcoatl. Proud leader of STW3 and member of the RTR, FATW and QNS teams.

  9. #9
    SickBoy13's Avatar Ordinarius
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    Default Re: why do we worship dickheads?

    One man's dickhead is another's hero. That is just how it is. If someone does something that someone agrees with, on a regular basis, one becomes nearly attached to said famous person and will not waver in their obsession, no matter what evil things the object of obsession has committed. Hero worship is unhealthy, but it is nearly unavoidable.

  10. #10

    Default Re: why do we worship dickheads?

    yeah I see your point quet even tho one or two names get remembered its really the whole people that brings any one great man to the forefront-- why dont we worship the grand efforts of his people rather than the leader himself?

    perhaps because it is so difficult to truly get a thousand men to fight together or more you know its so difficult to really capture the hearts of a people--- so we are tantalized by the few who come to us who are born to lead a people-- all these you named were great leaders-- and humans are social animals with a long long tradition of icons-- found in both men and beast etc---

    personally i think we should cultivate hero worship of scientists just because it would be better for the society.

  11. #11
    Thanatos's Avatar Now Is Not the Time
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    Default Re: why do we worship dickheads?

    Because we are human, and like to focus on the positive aspects of people.

  12. #12

    Default Re: why do we worship dickheads?

    Maybe because I'd like an aim in life rather than base it around reproducing and carrying on the human race, and because I agree with Thanatos

  13. #13

    Default Re: why do we worship dickheads?

    chaigidel, hi

    absolutely! i don’t think we need to be rid of leaders, but it is of utmost importance that we challenge them and understand what is going on [as in the opening post]!

    khosson
    ha yes thats a good point actually, some things - individual things - stand out, like lights of a city viewed from space.

    kirk and thanitos

    yep that is true, but also see above.
    Formerly quetzalcoatl. Proud leader of STW3 and member of the RTR, FATW and QNS teams.

  14. #14
    Siblesz's Avatar I say it's coming......
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    Default Re: why do we worship dickheads?

    I think it is unavoidable to be a dickhead once you achieve a certain kind of individual self-awareness and self-actualization. Even Buddha, who pretended to deny his own self, had a form of ego. The fact that he preached his beliefs to others suggests to me that he thought himself worthy enough to spread his teachings. Had he denied his individuality and submitted himself to nirvana, then he wouldn't seek to make others understand his way of life, for everything of the material world is meaningless according to Buddhist dogma, and he would be happy without interfering in society. But he did... he was still a dreamer, he did not stop others from calling him the elightened one, he enjoyed the feeling of being followed, and he still wanted to cause individual change. His ego was still alive and well. Every individual is the same... whether it'd be Jesus, Napoleon, or Plato. We all seek to create change as individuals first, and then as part of our environment. The denial of the self is an impossible journey which will only be attained in death.

    And if it is possible that an individual existed who did attain complete and utter self-denial and oneness with the universe, then he/she would not be famous or spoken about. All other prophets and great leaders of our humanity were still inundated by the natural insolence of the ego.
    Last edited by Siblesz; May 16, 2007 at 12:08 AM.
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  15. #15

    Default Re: why do we worship dickheads?

    so how do you see the constructs of history and the individual?
    First, i'll point out an important detail : you and other posters mention "great men". Masculine figures.
    I wont quote Freud exactly since i dont know his words said in english, but anyway this clearly relates to the need of a strong paternal figure.
    Cesar, Alexander etc are all idealized paternal figures. Hell even "god" is one.
    Its so much easier to fall back and follow someone you know you can fully trust and follow blindly (that is your father) even if its just a dickhead (that is the man you truely follow.).
    Actually knowing there is no such thing as someone you can follow blindly is called "growing up" or being an adult, and after adolescence, people should have rejected their "all mighty father image", but for a lot of people, fidning a new one is often welcome as it will lessen the burden of life is making choices.

    Secondly, i dont think that those "great men" shaped history, well at least they just shaped small parts of it.
    History is not "made", and certainly not by one single man (or even women).
    They where certainly famous, they where certainly remarquable people very talented and skillfull, but who could pretend they "shaped the world".
    They did like all humans of their time, a bit more than others probably, but at the scale of mankind, its just a drop of water in an ocean.
    At least it is my point of view.

    (BTW : very good topic and reflexion)

  16. #16

    Default Re: why do we worship dickheads?

    hi sibs

    sure ego is inevitable, it is more following like sheep that i am concerned with and the group consciousness thing - i am seeing this as communal morphism, a kind of persona blender. this can be dangerous in cults and damaging to the individual. i think the Buddha saw a truth and wanted to share it - if people wanted to learn, i don’t think there is an ego in this although as you say/infur being the enlightened one is rather like Jesus being the king of kings . i propose the opposite as i am doing here - where the individual is as or more important than the whole, by this i mean all individuals i.e. everyone, thence for one to stand above another is derogatory to a given other.
    i agree the denial of self is indeed an impossible journey, even after death - which is after all the one thing we all go through solely as individuals. we come into this world in the comfort of the mothers womb, then go out of it having to face the unknown alone.

    then he/she would not be famous or spoken about
    good point!

    zerathule, hi
    thanks

    First, i’ll point out an important detail : you and other posters mention “great men”. Masculine figures.
    sure there are great women, and also wives etc behind the scenes.

    Its so much easier to fall back and follow someone you know you can fully trust and follow blindly (that is your father)
    good point, there is a laziness to following - and sometimes a lack of self belief hmm and yes a father figure. i suppose then it is our duty to move beyond the familial sphere [family], as you say - which is also perhaps the basis of what i am saying here.

    but at the scale of mankind, its just a drop of water in an ocean
    indeed! i think they represent trends as much as anything, the wake of which encompasses all in its field.


    .nice post!
    Formerly quetzalcoatl. Proud leader of STW3 and member of the RTR, FATW and QNS teams.

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