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  1. #1

    Default Faction Thread: The Russians

    A thread to discuss the russian faction. Any pictures, unit lists names etc. are to be posted here. I'll edit the first post as we get more material/information.

    Units:

    Names:

    characters

    Aleksandr
    Dmitriy
    Fyodor
    Gavriil
    Georgiy
    Grigoriy
    Konstantin
    Pyotr
    Symeon
    Timofey
    Vasiliy
    Aleksei
    Andrei
    Boris
    Grechin
    Iosif
    Ivan
    Maksim
    Mikhail
    Miloslav
    Miroslav
    Nikita
    Pavel
    Radoslav
    Sidor
    Stanimir
    Stepan
    Sviatopolk
    Tvorimir
    Vladimir
    Voislav
    Yaroslav
    Zaiats
    Zavid
    Zhiroslav
    Zhiznobud
    Artyom
    Boleslav
    Sergei
    Viktor

    surnames

    Adashev
    Basmanov
    Bashkin
    Borisov
    Buturlin
    Chelyadnin-Fedorov
    Danilov
    Glinskiy
    Godunov
    Golitsin
    Gorbatiy
    Katyrev
    Khokholkov
    Khvorostinin
    Kobylin
    Kolychev
    Kurakin
    Kurbskiy
    Lykov
    Matveev
    Morozov
    Nagoy
    Naryshkin
    Novosiltsev
    Nashchokin
    Obraztsov
    Patrikeev
    Pleshcheev
    Pushkin
    Repnin
    Romanov
    Ryapolovskiy
    Saburov
    Skuratov
    Shein
    Sheremetev
    Shuyskiy
    Sobakin
    Troekurov
    Tuchko
    Yuriev
    Yakovlev
    Velyaminov
    Viskovatiy
    Vorontsov
    Zakharin
    Alekseev
    Andreev
    Boldin
    Buiakov
    Chernekov
    Chortov
    Dmitriev
    Drozdov
    Grechinov
    Grigoriev
    Ivanov
    Ivanovich
    Kiselev
    Kozlov
    Kuritsev
    Maksimov
    Malov
    Mikhailovich
    Miloslavov
    Miroslavov
    Nezhkov
    Nikitin
    Orekhov
    Pavlov
    Radoslavov
    Sbyslavov
    Shchukin
    Sidorov
    Stanimirov
    Stepanov
    Tvorimirov
    Vasilievich
    Voislavov
    Volchkov
    Zaitsev
    Zakhariev
    Zavidov
    Zhiroslavov
    Zhiznobudov
    Zubov
    Rurikovich

    bynames

    Belozerskiy
    Dorogobuzhskiy
    Holmskiy
    Moskovskiy
    Mstislavskiy
    Obolenskiy
    Odoevskiy
    Pronskiy
    Pskovskiy
    Rostovskiy
    Ryapolovskiy
    Ryazanskiy
    Sitskiy
    Shakhovskoy
    Starodubskiy
    Staritskiy
    Suzdalskiy
    Telyatevskiy
    Tverskoy
    Trubetskoy
    Vereyskiy
    Volynskiy
    Vorotynskiy
    Vyazemskiy


    women

    Agafia
    Anastasia
    Anna
    Elena
    Evdokia
    Evfimia
    Evfrosinia
    Evpraksia
    Feodora
    Feodosia
    Feofania
    Fevronia
    Gliceria
    Irina
    Ksenia
    Marfa
    Melania
    Maria
    Natalia
    Olga
    Pelagia
    Praskovia
    Sofia
    Ulyana
    Varvara
    Vasilisa
    Zoya
    Aleksandra
    Antonina
    Ekaterina
    Gravriia
    Khristin
    Maritsa
    Nataliia
    Severina
    Tatiana

    Pictures:
    Last edited by Serious Spamurai; May 12, 2007 at 11:27 AM.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Faction Thread: The Russians

    Muscovy units, 1490-1555 period


    Cavalry:

    1. Dvoriani - the heaviest cavalry (boyars with barded horses)
    2. Boyars - medium (but still fast) cavalry, horse archers, saber as secondary
    3. Pomestnaya Konnitsa (pomeshchiki) - light cavalry, horse archers, sovnya (special kind of polearm) secondary
    5. Tatarskaya Konnitsa – vassal Tatars (Kazaki unit), horse archer
    6. Sluzhiliye Kazaki - Cossaks - lance or bows


    Infantry:

    1. Streletsi
    2. Gorodovye Kazaki - garrison cossaks
    3. Datochnye liudi (registered people) – levied commoners - arquebus armed
    4. Archer levy - like number 3, but armed with bows
    5. Garrison troops (Gorodovye liudi) – quite well equipped infantry, polearms
    6. Ratnik - basically boyars on foot
    7. Town militia - spearmen
    8. Hand-gunners (Pishchalshchiki) - early firearm infatnry
    9. Crossbowmen
    10. Perhaps pikemen – Kopeyshchiki - Muscovy didn’t have pikemen before 1630-ies, but they didn’t need it earlier than that - if the need arose (If they fught against heavy cavalry of the western type) in the 16th century, because of the nature of their military system I am quite certain that they would be able to field low to medium quality pikemen quite fast

  3. #3

    Default Re: Faction Thread: The Russians

    What does a Sovnya look like? Is it that glaive-type lance?
    That's a Good list +rep. Could you write more on what armour/clothing the unit's should have. We could also do with some pictures.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Faction Thread: The Russians

    Units:

    Cavalry:
    Gorodovye Cossacks
    Russian Regular Cavalry
    Boyars
    Kazaks
    Free Cossacks
    Dvor Cavalry
    Slobad Cossacks

    Missile:
    Streltsi
    Crossbowmen

    Melee:
    Levy(basically peasants)
    Woodsmen
    Gorodovye Infantry
    Vybrannye Infantry
    Storozhevoi Polk
    Large Polk
    Foot Dvor

    Note: I am not sure how accurate these names are. I got them from a website without doing much research.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Faction Thread: The Russians

    I have a really bad dial up connection at home, so posting pictures is a problem. I usually send a bunch of pictures by mail from work. The best way to do it for me would be to send pictures to one of the team members by mail, and then he (or she ) can upload it somewhere for others to see...
    Any volunteers?

    Sovnya is displayed in one of the pictures posted by Otark in the Late Medieval Units Proposals thread, this one:

    http://img156.imageshack.us/my.php?i...e1416vvjs4.gif

    Polk - this is not a unit in itself, this is a tactical formation on the battlefield, can be translated as regisment or wing etc. Usually early Russian armies consisted of several Polks, left wing, right wing, main, vanguard, reserve. Unit witihin Polks varied, infantry, cavalry etc.

    Vybrannye Infantry, Russian Regular Cavalry - later period I think, I have to check

    Foot Dvor - Ratnik unit is the foot exuivalent of Dvoriani cavalry (Dvor cav in MTW2)

  6. #6

    Default Re: Faction Thread: The Russians

    @Yggdrasill

    1. I strongly advise exclude the names and surnames you have added after mine done for justme because its are irrelevant for diffeent reasons.

    2. boyars had their own dvoryans (military servants) being the highest possible feodal rank, so better probably so:



    Cavalry
    at start Dvor - Tsar's own deti boyarskie heavy cavalry
    late Zhiltsi - Tsar's guard heavy cavalry
    Boyars heavy armored cavalry (with head and front barding)
    Novgorodian boyars "kovanaya rat'" - super heavy cavalry (probably imported gothic armour )
    Pomestnoe opolchenie - main part of army, versatile medium armored cavalry bow and sabre
    Sluznilye tatary mailed light cavalry + horse archers
    Mounted gorodovye kazaki
    Kazaki - light cavalry lancers

    Infantry:

    late Foot zhiltsi - Tsar's guard polearms
    at start pishchalniks - arquebusirs
    late Streltsi - musketeers + berdysh as secondary weapon
    dismounted pomestnoe opolchenie
    dismounted kazaki
    gorodovye kazaki
    archers medium composit bow sabre good at close combat
    pososhnaya rat' - low moral levy peasants
    crossbowmen (arbalesters)

    Artillery:
    Pushka cannon
    Tyufyak coulevrine
    late Organ

  7. #7

    Default Re: Faction Thread: The Russians

    Right, having found my credit card at last I can order some more osprey books and such, and milkshape. There's one about russia from 1250-1500 which should be useful, especially for armour. The below is the armour Steppe warriors should have:

    Light Mail:
    Long Mail Coat, Helm, sometimes an Aventail.

    Heavy Mail:
    Long Mail Coat, Helm, veil of Mail or Aventail, Lamellar or scale body armour.

    Partial Plate:
    Yushman, Bakterez or Kolontar type armour, helm with face mask or veil of mail.


    Also, was the Sovnya also used dismounted? It could make a cool unit if it was.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Faction Thread: The Russians

    In the 1494-1555 time period, lamellar and especially scale armour were obsolete and were no loger used, except as a lčelft over from past times for some less well to do warriors.

    Mail-and-plate korazin like the Ottomans used replaced them, as it negated the need ot use two types of armour at the same time (mail and on top of it a lamellar armour).

  9. #9

    Default Re: Faction Thread: The Russians

    Quote Originally Posted by Yggdrasill View Post
    In the 1494-1555 time period, lamellar and especially scale armour were obsolete and were no loger used, except as a lčelft over from past times for some less well to do warriors.

    Mail-and-plate korazin like the Ottomans used replaced them, as it negated the need ot use two types of armour at the same time (mail and on top of it a lamellar armour).
    Ahh, okay, I didn't know that, I'd have thought they'd have still been using it considering how often they used it in the past. Thanks for telling me. What should go in it's place? Another form of armour, or just mail with more of the extras added (Veils, Gloves, trousers)?
    How about:

    Heavy Mail:
    Long Mail Coat, Helm, veil of Mail or Aventail, Mail trousers and gloves.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Faction Thread: The Russians

    In the West plate, brigandine, jacks, with some mail was the norm.

    In the east, some quilted armor (in Russia and Lithuania), mail (in the form of long or short sleeved mail shirts, waist high), with attached small plates, eastern style vambraces, sisak helmets, and sometimes thigh mail-and-plate armour.

    If you give me your mail I can send you pictures of Russians, ottomans, Mamluks with such armour

  11. #11

    Default Re: Faction Thread: The Russians

    Having just got MS3D I decided to have a little play around with Russian units:



    This is just a test-model, where I can try out different weapon combinations and such, I can combine them into individual units later. He will be wearing Kolontar/Yushman type armour, I plan on removing the quiver and adding arrows to his sadaak. This will probably be one of the heaviest armour types, just behind western plate. I need more pics for the helms, I was planning on using the one on the left in the post above, it looks like it provides good protection, I was also thinking of adding one of the face-masks like the ones on the russian late bodyguard unit but I'm not sure if they were still used at this time.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Faction Thread: The Russians

    Haven't done any modding for renaissance today, been focusing on my polearms mod and on trying to work out a way to get flails to work, I think I might just have cracked it, with major thanks to prof for the suggestion. So we might be able to fit a flail in to the mod.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Faction Thread: The Russians

    Quote Originally Posted by Serious samurai View Post
    Having just got MS3D I decided to have a little play around with Russian units:



    This is just a test-model, where I can try out different weapon combinations and such, I can combine them into individual units later. He will be wearing Kolontar/Yushman type armour, I plan on removing the quiver and adding arrows to his sadaak. This will probably be one of the heaviest armour types, just behind western plate. I need more pics for the helms, I was planning on using the one on the left in the post above, it looks like it provides good protection, I was also thinking of adding one of the face-masks like the ones on the russian late bodyguard unit but I'm not sure if they were still used at this time.
    Ups... Sorry for false inf. I've seen some misleading images. Of course, saadak is a kit: bowcase and quiver: bowcase is on the left side, quiver on the right side. Like these (special tsar's):
    http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/a...tar/saadak.jpg
    http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/a...ar/saadak2.jpg
    http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/a...ar/saadak4.jpg
    http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/a...ar/saadak3.jpg

    that one simple:http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/a...r/orshabow.jpg

    Shields:http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/a...bresplates.jpg, http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/a...ar/shields.jpg, http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/a...hieldround.jpg, this one is persian, but the same type as one of previous: http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/a...ianshield.jpg: a contempopary icon, look at the shield on the ground under the horse
    of the commander http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/a.../shieldXVI.jpg.

    some sabers:http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/a...rescabbard.jpg, http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/a.../sabrepers.jpg, http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/a.../shamshir2.jpg, http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/a...ishswords2.jpg, http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/a.../turkishsw.jpg, http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/a...r/shamshir.jpg

    Heavy cavalryman 16th:http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/a...avrussian2.jpg, http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/a...avrussian1.jpg.

    some armor:
    http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/a...smisyurka2.jpg
    http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/a...arkolchuga.jpg
    http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/a...bahterets2.jpg
    http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/a...ntar/zerts.jpg


    a Russian shishak: http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/a...ar/shishak.jpg, while these shishaks http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/a...hagge_1562.jpg and http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/a...hak_1560_B.jpg are named "yerikhonskaya shapka" jericho cap in Russian http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/a...jerichocap.jpg.

    Definitely, facemasks were not in use by infantry and maybe the most heavy cavalry like Novgorodians used them only.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Faction Thread: The Russians

    Right, I'll fix the sadaak thing, putting the quiver and bow case in the right places. I can use the helms from quapuluku (upgraded and un-upgraded) for some of the models, the heaviest armoured troops will have veils on their helms. What did they used to wear under their armour, silken, wool or leather clothes? Most soldeirs have a small part of the underclothing showing I want it to be right, I was going to have a go at doing the body armours tomorrow, they will use the same model but different textures. I'll post screens when I'm done or whatever tomorrow.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Faction Thread: The Russians

    Quote Originally Posted by Serious samurai View Post
    Right, I'll fix the sadaak thing, putting the quiver and bow case in the right places. I can use the helms from quapuluku (upgraded and un-upgraded) for some of the models, the heaviest armoured troops will have veils on their helms. What did they used to wear under their armour, silken, wool or leather clothes? Most soldeirs have a small part of the underclothing showing I want it to be right, I was going to have a go at doing the body armours tomorrow, they will use the same model but different textures. I'll post screens when I'm done or whatever tomorrow.
    Usually they wore broadcloth or linen. It possibly should look like this:
    http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/a...ar/padded2.jpg
    http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/a...ar/padded1.jpg

    The more I think of it, the more I don't like the veil face defence.Espesially after I discover this painting: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Im...sha_1514_1.PNG. The Russians are on the left, Polish and Lituanians are on the right. The anonimous author is regarded as eyewitness of the battle, so it may be the only contemporary pictoral source of how the Russian army looked in the beginning of XVI cent. Another part of the painting
    http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Im..._army_1514.PNG

    Can you make the archer to have sabre attached to his right thumb? The same I have posted in late medieval units thread [URL=http://img82.imageshack.us/my.php?image=archerhj1.jpg][IMG]?

  16. #16
    Boosh's Avatar Libertus
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    Default Re: Faction Thread: The Russians

    I have a concern about the names list - Russian names, as far as I've been taught, consist of the Name, Patronymich, and family names. I probably butchered the English transliteration of the middle one, but here's the breakdown:

    The Name is the given name, like Vassili or Ivan. The Patronymich (Pa-tro-ne-mik) is the father's name of the specific person. My name might be Michael (Mikhail), and my father's name, Sergei, would combine to make me Mikail Sergeevich. Whenever you see an "-ovich" or "-evich," that confirms that the person is the son of whoever's name falls before the suffix. Likewise, for a woman, if you see "-ovna" or "-evna" as the suffix, that will mean daughter of whoever's name falls before the suffix. Let's say I had a sister, Anna. She would be Anna Sergeevna. The -e and the -o are mostly a matter of spelling and pronunciation rules, but soft endings usually end up with an -e and hard endings, such as "Ivan," end up with an -o. The last name, or family name, is something like Tolstoy, Dostoevsky, Romanov, etc... and they can be declined in many ways. Some, like Romanov, decline as nouns, while others take the role of an adjective because of their endings, like Tolstoy.

    Without getting too far into detail on the actual grammar of the language, I suggest that you decide how Russian characters should be named, whether just by Given name and Patronymich, or Given name and Family Name, or all three. But I urge you not to mix between them for historical and cultural reasons.
    -Boosh

  17. #17

    Default Re: Faction Thread: The Russians

    Just curious, is someone still working on the Russian (Muscovite) unit list?

    If not, I can help out...

  18. #18

    Default Re: Faction Thread: The Russians

    I'm not sure myself, but you are more than welcome to contribute your list of units (if you could also indicate which are fit for the "early" and which are fit for the "late" period of our mod, all the better)

  19. #19

    Default Re: Faction Thread: The Russians

    Quote Originally Posted by justme View Post
    I'm not sure myself, but you are more than welcome to contribute your list of units (if you could also indicate which are fit for the "early" and which are fit for the "late" period of our mod, all the better)
    All right, Ill get to it soon

    EDIT: I'm really sorry, some real life issues have come up and I dont have the time right now, but Ill try to get to it eventually if its not done by then.
    Last edited by ivan_the_terrible; January 14, 2008 at 02:32 PM.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Faction Thread: The Russians

    streltsi weren't implemented until the 1600's by ivan the mediocre.

    so i think the cossack musketeers should just be "gunners", or some other variant. a russian word perhaps. "Mushketor" is musketeer in russian.

    but streltsi did not exist at the time period, as an organization any way. i don't know if "streltsi" just meant "shooters" (sounds like it) in russian, or if the name was specific to the organization.


    i think the streleisi need a definite retexture. the model is alright, but CA tried to make them distinguishable and put random stripes on them.

    ug1 streltsi: like now, only without the red/blue stripes. rugged coated fur hatted musketeers.
    ug2 streltsi: a nicer, more uniform like coat, not brown but dark red or dark blue, or what have you with those horizontal stripes across the chest. look generally neater. maybe a steel helmet instead of a fur hat.

    and their secondary weapon has to be a bardiche. is it possible to give them a two handed weapon as secondary?

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