Faction Thread: The Russians

**Serious Spamurai** · May 12, 2007, 11:09 AM

A thread to discuss the russian faction. Any pictures, unit lists names etc. are to be posted here. I'll edit the first post as we get more material/information.

Units:

Names:

characters

Aleksandr
Dmitriy
Fyodor
Gavriil
Georgiy
Grigoriy
Konstantin
Pyotr
Symeon
Timofey
Vasiliy
Aleksei
Andrei
Boris
Grechin
Iosif
Ivan
Maksim
Mikhail
Miloslav
Miroslav
Nikita
Pavel
Radoslav
Sidor
Stanimir
Stepan
Sviatopolk
Tvorimir
Vladimir
Voislav
Yaroslav
Zaiats
Zavid
Zhiroslav
Zhiznobud
Artyom
Boleslav
Sergei
Viktor

surnames

Adashev
Basmanov
Bashkin
Borisov
Buturlin
Chelyadnin-Fedorov
Danilov
Glinskiy
Godunov
Golitsin
Gorbatiy
Katyrev
Khokholkov
Khvorostinin
Kobylin
Kolychev
Kurakin
Kurbskiy
Lykov
Matveev
Morozov
Nagoy
Naryshkin
Novosiltsev
Nashchokin
Obraztsov
Patrikeev
Pleshcheev
Pushkin
Repnin
Romanov
Ryapolovskiy
Saburov
Skuratov
Shein
Sheremetev
Shuyskiy
Sobakin
Troekurov
Tuchko
Yuriev
Yakovlev
Velyaminov
Viskovatiy
Vorontsov
Zakharin
Alekseev
Andreev
Boldin
Buiakov
Chernekov
Chortov
Dmitriev
Drozdov
Grechinov
Grigoriev
Ivanov
Ivanovich
Kiselev
Kozlov
Kuritsev
Maksimov
Malov
Mikhailovich
Miloslavov
Miroslavov
Nezhkov
Nikitin
Orekhov
Pavlov
Radoslavov
Sbyslavov
Shchukin
Sidorov
Stanimirov
Stepanov
Tvorimirov
Vasilievich
Voislavov
Volchkov
Zaitsev
Zakhariev
Zavidov
Zhiroslavov
Zhiznobudov
Zubov
Rurikovich

bynames

Belozerskiy
Dorogobuzhskiy
Holmskiy
Moskovskiy
Mstislavskiy
Obolenskiy
Odoevskiy
Pronskiy
Pskovskiy
Rostovskiy
Ryapolovskiy
Ryazanskiy
Sitskiy
Shakhovskoy
Starodubskiy
Staritskiy
Suzdalskiy
Telyatevskiy
Tverskoy
Trubetskoy
Vereyskiy
Volynskiy
Vorotynskiy
Vyazemskiy

women

Agafia
Anastasia
Anna
Elena
Evdokia
Evfimia
Evfrosinia
Evpraksia
Feodora
Feodosia
Feofania
Fevronia
Gliceria
Irina
Ksenia
Marfa
Melania
Maria
Natalia
Olga
Pelagia
Praskovia
Sofia
Ulyana
Varvara
Vasilisa
Zoya
Aleksandra
Antonina
Ekaterina
Gravriia
Khristin
Maritsa
Nataliia
Severina
Tatiana

Pictures:

**Yggdrasill** · May 12, 2007, 03:24 PM

Muscovy units, 1490-1555 period

Cavalry:

1. Dvoriani - the heaviest cavalry (boyars with barded horses)
2. Boyars - medium (but still fast) cavalry, horse archers, saber as secondary
3. Pomestnaya Konnitsa (pomeshchiki) - light cavalry, horse archers, sovnya (special kind of polearm) secondary
5. Tatarskaya Konnitsa – vassal Tatars (Kazaki unit), horse archer
6. Sluzhiliye Kazaki - Cossaks - lance or bows

Infantry:

1. Streletsi
2. Gorodovye Kazaki - garrison cossaks
3. Datochnye liudi (registered people) – levied commoners - arquebus armed
4. Archer levy - like number 3, but armed with bows
5. Garrison troops (Gorodovye liudi) – quite well equipped infantry, polearms
6. Ratnik - basically boyars on foot
7. Town militia - spearmen
8. Hand-gunners (Pishchalshchiki) - early firearm infatnry
9. Crossbowmen
10. Perhaps pikemen – Kopeyshchiki - Muscovy didn’t have pikemen before 1630-ies, but they didn’t need it earlier than that - if the need arose (If they fught against heavy cavalry of the western type) in the 16th century, because of the nature of their military system I am quite certain that they would be able to field low to medium quality pikemen quite fast

**Serious Spamurai** · May 12, 2007, 03:39 PM

What does a Sovnya look like? Is it that glaive-type lance?
That's a Good list +rep. Could you write more on what armour/clothing the unit's should have. We could also do with some pictures.

**Icefrisco** · May 12, 2007, 09:36 PM

Units:

Cavalry:
Gorodovye Cossacks
Russian Regular Cavalry
Boyars
Kazaks
Free Cossacks
Dvor Cavalry
Slobad Cossacks

Missile:
Streltsi
Crossbowmen

Melee:
Levy(basically peasants)
Woodsmen
Gorodovye Infantry
Vybrannye Infantry
Storozhevoi Polk
Large Polk
Foot Dvor

Note: I am not sure how accurate these names are. I got them from a website without doing much research.

**Yggdrasill** · May 13, 2007, 04:46 AM

I have a really bad dial up connection at home, so posting pictures is a problem. I usually send a bunch of pictures by mail from work. The best way to do it for me would be to send pictures to one of the team members by mail, and then he (or she

) can upload it somewhere for others to see...
Any volunteers?

Sovnya is displayed in one of the pictures posted by Otark in the Late Medieval Units Proposals thread, this one:

http://img156.imageshack.us/my.php?i...e1416vvjs4.gif

Polk - this is not a unit in itself, this is a tactical formation on the battlefield, can be translated as regisment or wing etc. Usually early Russian armies consisted of several Polks, left wing, right wing, main, vanguard, reserve. Unit witihin Polks varied, infantry, cavalry etc.

Vybrannye Infantry, Russian Regular Cavalry - later period I think, I have to check

Foot Dvor - Ratnik unit is the foot exuivalent of Dvoriani cavalry (Dvor cav in MTW2)

**otark** · May 13, 2007, 06:26 AM

@Yggdrasill

1. I strongly advise exclude the names and surnames you have added after mine done for justme because its are irrelevant for diffeent reasons.

2. boyars had their own dvoryans (military servants) being the highest possible feodal rank, so better probably so:

Cavalry
at start Dvor - Tsar's own deti boyarskie heavy cavalry
late Zhiltsi - Tsar's guard heavy cavalry
Boyars heavy armored cavalry (with head and front barding)
Novgorodian boyars "kovanaya rat'" - super heavy cavalry (probably imported gothic armour )
Pomestnoe opolchenie - main part of army, versatile medium armored cavalry bow and sabre
Sluznilye tatary mailed light cavalry + horse archers
Mounted gorodovye kazaki
Kazaki - light cavalry lancers

Infantry:

late Foot zhiltsi - Tsar's guard polearms
at start pishchalniks - arquebusirs
late Streltsi - musketeers + berdysh as secondary weapon
dismounted pomestnoe opolchenie
dismounted kazaki
gorodovye kazaki
archers medium composit bow sabre good at close combat
pososhnaya rat' - low moral levy peasants
crossbowmen (arbalesters)

Artillery:
Pushka cannon
Tyufyak coulevrine
late Organ

**Serious Spamurai** · May 13, 2007, 09:07 AM

Right, having found my credit card at last I can order some more osprey books and such, and milkshape. There's one about russia from 1250-1500 which should be useful, especially for armour. The below is the armour Steppe warriors should have:

Light Mail:
Long Mail Coat, Helm, sometimes an Aventail.

Heavy Mail:
Long Mail Coat, Helm, veil of Mail or Aventail, Lamellar or scale body armour.

Partial Plate:
Yushman, Bakterez or Kolontar type armour, helm with face mask or veil of mail.

Also, was the Sovnya also used dismounted? It could make a cool unit if it was.

**Yggdrasill** · May 13, 2007, 09:13 AM

In the 1494-1555 time period, lamellar and especially scale armour were obsolete and were no loger used, except as a lčelft over from past times for some less well to do warriors.

Mail-and-plate korazin like the Ottomans used replaced them, as it negated the need ot use two types of armour at the same time (mail and on top of it a lamellar armour).

**Serious Spamurai** · May 13, 2007, 09:23 AM

Originally Posted by Yggdrasill

In the 1494-1555 time period, lamellar and especially scale armour were obsolete and were no loger used, except as a lčelft over from past times for some less well to do warriors.

Mail-and-plate korazin like the Ottomans used replaced them, as it negated the need ot use two types of armour at the same time (mail and on top of it a lamellar armour).

Ahh, okay, I didn't know that, I'd have thought they'd have still been using it considering how often they used it in the past. Thanks for telling me. What should go in it's place? Another form of armour, or just mail with more of the extras added (Veils, Gloves, trousers)?
How about:

Heavy Mail:
Long Mail Coat, Helm, veil of Mail or Aventail, Mail trousers and gloves.

**Yggdrasill** · May 13, 2007, 10:33 AM

In the West plate, brigandine, jacks, with some mail was the norm.

In the east, some quilted armor (in Russia and Lithuania), mail (in the form of long or short sleeved mail shirts, waist high), with attached small plates, eastern style vambraces, sisak helmets, and sometimes thigh mail-and-plate armour.

If you give me your mail I can send you pictures of Russians, ottomans, Mamluks with such armour

**Serious Spamurai** · May 18, 2007, 05:19 PM

Having just got MS3D I decided to have a little play around with Russian units:

This is just a test-model, where I can try out different weapon combinations and such, I can combine them into individual units later. He will be wearing Kolontar/Yushman type armour, I plan on removing the quiver and adding arrows to his sadaak. This will probably be one of the heaviest armour types, just behind western plate. I need more pics for the helms, I was planning on using the one on the left in the post above, it looks like it provides good protection, I was also thinking of adding one of the face-masks like the ones on the russian late bodyguard unit but I'm not sure if they were still used at this time.

**Serious Spamurai** · May 19, 2007, 02:38 PM

Haven't done any modding for renaissance today, been focusing on my polearms mod and on trying to work out a way to get flails to work, I think I might just have cracked it, with major thanks to prof for the suggestion. So we might be able to fit a flail in to the mod.

**otark** · May 19, 2007, 02:53 PM

Originally Posted by Serious samurai

Having just got MS3D I decided to have a little play around with Russian units:

This is just a test-model, where I can try out different weapon combinations and such, I can combine them into individual units later. He will be wearing Kolontar/Yushman type armour, I plan on removing the quiver and adding arrows to his sadaak. This will probably be one of the heaviest armour types, just behind western plate. I need more pics for the helms, I was planning on using the one on the left in the post above, it looks like it provides good protection, I was also thinking of adding one of the face-masks like the ones on the russian late bodyguard unit but I'm not sure if they were still used at this time.

Ups...

**Serious Spamurai** · May 19, 2007, 03:06 PM

Right, I'll fix the sadaak thing, putting the quiver and bow case in the right places. I can use the helms from quapuluku (upgraded and un-upgraded) for some of the models, the heaviest armoured troops will have veils on their helms. What did they used to wear under their armour, silken, wool or leather clothes? Most soldeirs have a small part of the underclothing showing I want it to be right, I was going to have a go at doing the body armours tomorrow, they will use the same model but different textures. I'll post screens when I'm done or whatever tomorrow.

**otark** · May 20, 2007, 03:29 PM

Originally Posted by Serious samurai

Right, I'll fix the sadaak thing, putting the quiver and bow case in the right places. I can use the helms from quapuluku (upgraded and un-upgraded) for some of the models, the heaviest armoured troops will have veils on their helms. What did they used to wear under their armour, silken, wool or leather clothes? Most soldeirs have a small part of the underclothing showing I want it to be right, I was going to have a go at doing the body armours tomorrow, they will use the same model but different textures. I'll post screens when I'm done or whatever tomorrow.

Usually they wore broadcloth or linen. It possibly should look like this:
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/a...ar/padded2.jpg
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/a...ar/padded1.jpg

The more I think of it, the more I don't like the veil face defence.Espesially after I discover this painting: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Im...sha_1514_1.PNG. The Russians are on the left, Polish and Lituanians are on the right. The anonimous author is regarded as eyewitness of the battle, so it may be the only contemporary pictoral source of how the Russian army looked in the beginning of XVI cent. Another part of the painting
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Im..._army_1514.PNG

Can you make the archer to have sabre attached to his right thumb? The same I have posted in late medieval units thread [URL=http://img82.imageshack.us/my.php?image=archerhj1.jpg][IMG]?

**Boosh** · October 03, 2007, 07:27 PM

I have a concern about the names list - Russian names, as far as I've been taught, consist of the Name, Patronymich, and family names. I probably butchered the English transliteration of the middle one, but here's the breakdown:

The Name is the given name, like Vassili or Ivan. The Patronymich (Pa-tro-ne-mik) is the father's name of the specific person. My name might be Michael (Mikhail), and my father's name, Sergei, would combine to make me Mikail Sergeevich. Whenever you see an "-ovich" or "-evich," that confirms that the person is the son of whoever's name falls before the suffix. Likewise, for a woman, if you see "-ovna" or "-evna" as the suffix, that will mean daughter of whoever's name falls before the suffix. Let's say I had a sister, Anna. She would be Anna Sergeevna. The -e and the -o are mostly a matter of spelling and pronunciation rules, but soft endings usually end up with an -e and hard endings, such as "Ivan," end up with an -o. The last name, or family name, is something like Tolstoy, Dostoevsky, Romanov, etc... and they can be declined in many ways. Some, like Romanov, decline as nouns, while others take the role of an adjective because of their endings, like Tolstoy.

Without getting too far into detail on the actual grammar of the language, I suggest that you decide how Russian characters should be named, whether just by Given name and Patronymich, or Given name and Family Name, or all three. But I urge you not to mix between them for historical and cultural reasons.

**ivan_the_terrible** · January 02, 2008, 02:28 AM

Just curious, is someone still working on the Russian (Muscovite) unit list?

If not, I can help out...

**justme** · January 02, 2008, 04:17 AM

I'm not sure myself, but you are more than welcome to contribute your list of units (if you could also indicate which are fit for the "early" and which are fit for the "late" period of our mod, all the better)

**ivan_the_terrible** · January 05, 2008, 09:28 PM

Originally Posted by justme

I'm not sure myself, but you are more than welcome to contribute your list of units (if you could also indicate which are fit for the "early" and which are fit for the "late" period of our mod, all the better)

All right, Ill get to it soon

EDIT: I'm really sorry, some real life issues have come up and I dont have the time right now, but Ill try to get to it eventually if its not done by then.

**phalanx1** · April 27, 2008, 11:31 PM

streltsi weren't implemented until the 1600's by ivan the mediocre.

so i think the cossack musketeers should just be "gunners", or some other variant. a russian word perhaps. "Mushketor" is musketeer in russian.

but streltsi did not exist at the time period, as an organization any way. i don't know if "streltsi" just meant "shooters" (sounds like it) in russian, or if the name was specific to the organization.

i think the streleisi need a definite retexture. the model is alright, but CA tried to make them distinguishable and put random stripes on them.

ug1 streltsi: like now, only without the red/blue stripes. rugged coated fur hatted musketeers.
ug2 streltsi: a nicer, more uniform like coat, not brown but dark red or dark blue, or what have you with those horizontal stripes across the chest. look generally neater. maybe a steel helmet instead of a fur hat.

and their secondary weapon has to be a bardiche. is it possible to give them a two handed weapon as secondary?

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