over 9 million americans imprisoned

[Chaigidel]

i know its over that number maybe way over--- what are your thoughts on the very large population of people in america's prisons

largely due to a failed "drug war"

is this a political corruption issue?
or are americans just too damn rowdy?

[Thanatos]

Well, going easy certainly isn't the way to solve the problem. You pardon one commission, and you encourage the commission of many.

If you want to win the drug war, you can do it if you want to.

The first thing you do is to close the border. With the military, not with the Border Patrol. The military. And you have them practice war games on the border all the time, 24/7.

After you do that, you start performing drug raids in every city. You start busting people that are affiliated in any way with them, which includes the corrupt politicians that are bought off by the drug money that comes mostly through Mexico.

Proper enforcement of the law, and I mean take-no-balls, I-don't-give-a-rat's-ass PROPER enforcement of the law, will kill the demand for the drugs, because the risk will just simply be too high to be worth the benefits.

[hsimoorb]

The first thing you do is to close the border. With the military, not with the Border Patrol. The military. And you have them practice war games on the border all the time, 24/7.

After you do that, you start performing drug raids in every city. You start busting people that are affiliated in any way with them, which includes the corrupt politicians that are bought off by the drug money that comes mostly through Mexico.

Proper enforcement of the law, and I mean take-no-balls, I-don't-give-a-rat's-ass PROPER enforcement of the law, will kill the demand for the drugs, because the risk will just simply be too high to be worth the benefits.

Well, first of all, we can't close the border. The country if friggin' huge, and our military has other obligations worldwide. And there is no reason why guys trained in tank warfare would be any better than people trained in...'ya know....patrolling our borders.

And, the most effective anti-drug operations usualy involve lots and lots of waiting, and gathering info. That's how you find out who the players are, where the money and drug are going, and more importantly how you gather evidence so that you can convict these people. Also it happens to be how you get the justification for sataging the raids on people in the first place. These DEA guys don't just break down random doors you know.

And NOTHING we can do will lower demand for drugs. Nor can we reduce the willingness of dealers to sell. The more we crack down, the higher their prices will go and the more profit they'll make. We can only reduce their ability to trafick drugs, not thier willingness to sell or peoples want to buy.

If we did want to "win" the drug war, this is what we'd do; Decriminalise all drugs, and grow them here. Government regulation is the most effective when we can get all our rescources to bear on the problem. It's innefective to try to use just the border patroll or the coast guard for this problem. If the stuff is being grown in the state, we cna use local law enforcement across the country to controll the scource of the problem(the drugs themselves) rather than jsut having them start with a blank slate tracking down every last user/dealer in america. We can use the IRS and FBI to track the money coming from these sales, which will help us keep tabs on where this stuff is going. Also since the dealers are above ground now, we can more easily keep the proceeds of the sales from going to dubious people. No more mobsters getting rich off this stuff. Also no more terrorists getting rich off this stuff. No more Afgans getting their gun-money from us...we get to tax all that now too.

[Carach]

If you want to win the drug war, you can do it if you want to.

u can take some of china's advice and cut off people's hands and so on that are caught with drugs?

somehow i think that compromises american principles however

ur not gonna win the drug war because the drug war is a phoney war. It has always been impossible for the US to maintain complete control over such large borders. thats been the case since ur independence - uve always had problems with smugglers and u always will.

Much of latin america's problems would be resolved if some of these drugs were simply made legal.

[Irishmafia2020]

Make tobacco illegal, and alcohol as well. Put people in prison for twenty years for possession of 1/2 a pound of tobacco (a carton) or of alcohol (a beer). Make sure to seize their private property and give it to the government. Then hire more prison guards. No wait, have the military be the prison guards... perfect. Now for that silly fourth amendment (unlawful search and seizure). First lets make sure that it doesn't apply to cars, houses or human bodies... Check! I used to work for a private prison company, and they would actually lobby for more and stricter laws because it was just good business. Don't worry, in a generation they will make tobacco illegal, and then alcohol as well, because they kill people. Guns however, don't so they'll remain freely available. Now, for the war on PORN!!!

[Thanatos]

@Irishmafia2020:

Har har. I'll thank you to not make sarcastic remarks.

Do you have any real alternatives or methods?

[Thanatos]

Hmmm. Last time I checked, the first task of a military was to defend its country's border. Why bother attacking if you can't even defend? As if the current system works! Forget the that the Border Patrol is hopelessly handicapped by bad management, low numbers, and the fact that they will face prison time if they actually do their job.

There is no reason as to why our men should spend their time and money defending the borders of other countries when ours is in terrible danger.

[Irishmafia2020]

In all seriousness, I'd say legalize marijuana, its just not worth the public cost and erosion of liberties to throw people in prison over a drug that isn't killing anyone. Then give the heroin addicts prescription heroin and treat it like a disease. Then take the resources you've freed up with those actions and go after the really bad drugs like Cocaine and Meth with a vengeance. Also, figure out what to do with the underclass so they don't get into that crap anyway. Reform our school system so that a lot more of our kids are graduating with useful skills like mechanics or with commercial drivers licenses. I honestly think those things would help more than the current approach, and I think a much more aggressive approach to the drug war like you suggest borders on police state style fascism. That isn't to say that it would be all bad, but I wonder if the loss of liberty and privacy for everyone that "winning" the war on drugs would entail, wouldn't cause us to lose something innately more valuable at the same time.

[Thanatos]

There's a great difference between violating the rights of an American citizen in the city, and defending the darn border, mind you.

There can never be anything wrong with defending one's own border.

[NaptownKnight]

I just visited a local prison the other day. I think that more needs to be done to help the offenders rehabilitate and get jobs, instead of just dumping them in the prison system.

[Thanatos]

True, but prison still needs to retain its purpose as a detentional center first, then correctional center second.

[Drexxus Maximus]

i know its over that number maybe way over--- what are your thoughts on the very large population of people in america's prisons

largely due to a failed "drug war"

is this a political corruption issue?
or are americans just too damn rowdy?

I think we are just too rowdy heh. We are a defiant people by nature I think. But yeah, a huge part of this problem is this useless neverending war on drugs, especially marijuana. People should never ever spend one single day in prison for ANY marijuana related charge. It's just ridiculous. Unless they forced a toddler to smoke it like those idiots on the news the other day. Political corruption slimes its way into everything also.

I just visited a local prison the other day. I think that more needs to be done to help the offenders rehabilitate and get jobs, instead of just dumping them in the prison system.

Indeed. I agree completely. Right now prisons are just schools for criminals. They do nothing to help anyone in there.

[Chaigidel]

what they do is build a huge and organized black market which will help to subvert our interests in the long term-- we take people already on the outside and group them together to make connections then we isolate them further by not having real programs of rehabilitation just storage--(and private prison systems MUST be abolished)

[Thanatos]

what they do is build a huge and organized black market which will help to subvert our interests in the long term-- we take people already on the outside and group them together to make connections then we isolate them further by not having real programs of rehabilitation just storage--(and private prison systems MUST be abolished)

We isolate them by not providing real programs of rehabilitation? They're the ones that isolated themselves by committing the crime in the first place!

There's no real incentive to stop, as prison's practically a paradise for inmates nowadays. They get nice food, get TV, get to vote while in prison, the list goes on and on.

Prison should be a hellhole. People should be scared crapless to ever go back there. I am also one for the belief that the only "rehabilitation" inmates need is by doing something useful, such as hard labor.

And what's wrong with private prison systems, as long as they follow the mandates for civil rights set by the government?

[Siblesz]

1.) Legalize weed.
2.) don't prosecute drug users.
3.) prosecute drug dealers.
4.) institutionalize and control the drug trade by making government supply cheaper than illegal supply.
5.) After control is held, tax the drug business.

After you do these things, you can cut the number of people who go to jail in half. Give it ten years, and drug use in America will also decrease dramatically.

In other words, impossible to do in the puritanical American system.

[Kretchfoop]

1.) Legalize weed.
2.) don't prosecute drug users.
3.) prosecute drug dealers.
4.) institutionalize and control the drug trade by making government supply cheaper than illegal supply.
5.) After control is held, tax the drug business.

After you do these things, you can cut the number of people who go to jail in half. Give it ten years, and drug use in America will also decrease dramatically.

In other words, impossible to do in the puritanical American system.

Exactly! The entire problem lies with the country's assinine drug laws. Develop a sensible policy and this isn't even a problem anymore.

[Gelgoog]

Exactly! The entire problem lies with the country's assinine drug laws. Develop a sensible policy and this isn't even a problem anymore.

besides weed, our current drug policy is just fine, what needs to be changed is sentencing guidelines for drug offenses, and how they are prosecuted. so instead of throwing drugies into jail we should be treating them. but allowing anything but weed to be legalized would be a mistake. weed might not be a gateway drug, but most other sure as hell are.

[Kretchfoop]

besides weed, our current drug policy is just fine, what needs to be changed is sentencing guidelines for drug offenses, and how they are prosecuted. so instead of throwing drugies into jail we should be treating them. but allowing anything but weed to be legalized would be a mistake. weed might not be a gateway drug, but most other sure as hell are.

Ummmm.... sorry but how is sentencing guidlines and treatment options not considered a part of drug policy? Drug policy consists of a lot more than just deciding what is legal and what isn't.

In the post I quoted he only mentioned legalizing weed. At no point was legalizing other drugs mentioned. But anyways, I think this is just a misunderstanding as I pretty much agree 100% with everything you just said.

[Mikelus Trento]

1.) Legalize weed.
2.) don't prosecute drug users.
3.) prosecute drug dealers.
4.) institutionalize and control the drug trade by making government supply cheaper than illegal supply.
5.) After control is held, tax the drug business.

After you do these things, you can cut the number of people who go to jail in half. Give it ten years, and drug use in America will also decrease dramatically.

In other words, impossible to do in the puritanical American system.

2 and 3 don't jive.

[eddy_purpus]

1.) Legalize weed.
2.) don't prosecute drug users.
3.) prosecute drug dealers.
4.) institutionalize and control the drug trade by making government supply cheaper than illegal supply.
5.) After control is held, tax the drug business.
6.) US Government makes their own drug plantations , so they will fight the drug cartels with weapons and with "economic" ways
7.) sell them cheaper than the drug dealers to make them poorer

After you do these things, you can cut the number of people who go to jail in half. Give it ten years, and drug use in America will also decrease dramatically.

In other words, impossible to do in the puritanical American system.

Drug War = Prohibition

remember what happened in the Al capone era?
prohibition was proved to fail as more and more people where selling illegal stuff