Vassals - so frustrating!

**rdbrady** · May 10, 2007, 06:16 AM

So I'm playing as France. The year is 1126. England is down to Caernarvon. It doesn't have a port. I own the three neighboring territories. I have 2 full stack armies in the territory, and 4 spies in the settlement. Their only ally is Germany, with whom I am at war (and they are losing territory to Poland quickly on the other front). I did not initiate the war with them. They initiated it with me.

Are they refusing vassalage because I occasionally execute their troops? I only sack their towns. I did a test with add_money. After spending about 100k to get a ceasefire with germany, I tried to get vassalage from England. It required me giving them about 1 million florins.

Their wealth is "bankrupt". My power is "supreme". My reputation is "mixed". My relationship with England is "abyssmal"

**The Border Reiver** · May 10, 2007, 06:23 AM

Originally Posted by rdbrady

So I'm playing as France. The year is 1126. England is down to Caernarvon. It doesn't have a port. I own the three neighboring territories. I have 2 full stack armies in the territory, and 4 spies in the settlement. Their only ally is Germany, with whom I am at war (and they are losing territory to Poland quickly on the other front). I did not initiate the war with them. They initiated it with me.

Are they refusing vassalage because I occasionally execute their troops? I only sack their towns. I did a test with add_money. After spending about 100k to get a ceasefire with germany, I tried to get vassalage from England. It required me giving them about 1 million florins.

Their wealth is "bankrupt". My power is "supreme". My reputation is "mixed". My relationship with England is "abyssmal"

Probably may have something to do with it, but at what price should they sell their honour?

Probably a better question for you then, is at what price do you sell your honour? Your reputation is mixed, that means you may not keep your word, your relationship is abysmal.....there is nothing here to trust.

I see this as stoic resistance to a supreme power.....makes sense to me!

**Pygmalion** · May 10, 2007, 06:44 AM

Originally Posted by The Border Reiver

I see this as stoic resistance to a supreme power.....makes sense to me!

Or incredibly stupid AI. Makes even more sense, doesnt it?

Whats even more frustrating is that the Devs have not been able to get this done right after so many years of experience...

**Silent Assassin** · May 10, 2007, 07:59 AM

You should have alook here I`ve put a guide on how putting other factions has vassals.

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=96121

Cheers Rebel

**Arjuna** · May 10, 2007, 09:53 AM

Or incredibly stupid AI. Makes even more sense, doesnt it?

Most certainly. When they're down to one region, bankrupt, with even a single full-stack army approaching them, they should know that they've lost . . . and give up their lordship!

You should have alook here I`ve put a guide on how putting other factions has vassals.

Hmm, I'm gonna try this out. I had the Turks as a vassal for one turn; they immediately cancelled it next turn. Time to put them back in line . . .

**rdbrady** · May 10, 2007, 09:56 AM

Originally Posted by Rebel6666

You should have alook here I`ve put a guide on how putting other factions has vassals.

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=96121

Cheers Rebel

Yes, I've read that. There is a search function, ya know?

I posted because I followed your instructions to no effect. Sadly, England won't even accept its cities for peace. I was thinking maybe I'd just give them back and then try again later. I'm not really interested in ruling England.

**Valerius Maximus** · May 10, 2007, 06:26 AM

playing as england, ltc v2.1 and patch 1.1, I've got France, Scotland and Milan as vassals and they were happy to accept my terms. it's the first time in rtw and m2tw that i've been able to do that

**Valerius Maximus** · May 11, 2007, 04:53 AM

played more yesterday...my next vassal target was Venice...sent a diplomat, cancelled trade rights. Got 2 other Vassals , France and Milan to attack Venice which they did the next turn. I took Genoa and offered them 50 000 florins and they were happy too accept and become my vassals.

My next target is Sicily

**BuchVecny** · May 11, 2007, 07:06 AM

french newbs always offer me to become their vassal. I say no pay me 1000/5 turns. They happily agree. I get cash build army. After 5 turn i own one of their settlements. Process repeats

**thecactusman17** · May 12, 2007, 05:36 AM

There is something really screwy with the way the game works out the value of ceasefire/vassel deals. I'm no modder, but I'm wondering if there's a way to better attach wealth and power balance to ceasefire agreements? Ceasefires should only be this difficult the other way around, when you are begging for your life with a stronger faction. When all they can muster is a single bodyguard unit for their faction leader, enemy factions should not be so commonly taking the "to the death" approach.