Vote of no confidence in Soren

[Elrond]

Firstly I would like to say that this isnt personal.

Soren was ratified for the position of chief of moderation - he later resigned from this position and now has admin status despite having no official postion - the argument has been put forward that the current chief of moderation isnt ready for the role yet and therefore needs sorens help. I belive this is unnecessery and that if Soren is needed as a advisor he can be contacted by Manstien.

Soren doesnt need admin status to be advisor and therefore I have put forward this vote of no confidence in Soren's position as a non permeant member of the council.

[imb39]

*sigh*

[Garbarsardar]

At any time, any Citizens of this site may initiate a vote of "No Confidence" in any Officer of the Council or any elected Officer for neglect of duty or abuse of authority by posting their case within the Curia. Frivolous use of this procedure may result in disciplinary proceedings. In all cases, a vote of "No Confidence" is exempt from veto, however the vote is non binding except in the case of staff officers. The debate and vote on a motion of "No Confidence" shall follow the same procedure as that of a bill as per Article 3 below, but shall be conducted in the Curia Main, and not the Prothalamos.

You are required to demonstrate that Soren neglected his duty (?) or abused his authority.

Although I disagree with many of Soren's decisions I fail to see how this applies to him...

[Elrond]

You are required to demonstrate that Soren neglected his duty (?) or abused his authority.

Although I disagree with many of Soren's decisions I fail to see how this applies to him...

In my belief he is neglecting his duty to TWC as he doesnt have a position - if it was based on specific jobs alone three council members would be completly imune to removal by the curia.

[imb39]

In my belief he is neglecting his duty to TWC as he doesnt have a position - if it was based on specific jobs alone three council members would be completly imune to removal by the curia.

Soren, neglecting TWC... Crikey. I was even impressed that he did some moderating, not his favourite activity, though something he is awsome at and someone who was my prime influence in terms of moderating. He resigned from CoM only a few days ago AND Manstein is going to be away shortly for some leisure activities for a while.

Hang him I say!

[Elrond]

Soren, neglecting TWC... Crikey. I was even impressed that he did some moderating, not his favourite activity, though something he is awsome at and someone who was my prime influence in terms of moderating. He resigned from CoM only a few days ago AND Manstein is going to be away shortly for some leisure activities for a while.

Hang him I say!

Virtually every staff members resignation is ownly known when they which to the senatori badge - this hasnt happened as Soren is still a admin to advise Manstien - this simply isnt nescesrry as he can advise Manstien via pm.

Also are you completly incapable of covering for Manstien whilst he is away? - is it nesscerry to have a extra member of Hex for the role?

[Garbarsardar]

In my belief he is neglecting his duty to TWC as he doesnt have a position - if it was based on specific jobs alone three council members would be completly imune to removal by the curia.

Nowhere does it say in the Syntagma "his duty to TWC". Since a duty to a concept is a personal construct it would be impossible to "neglect it". His duty is the functions associated with his role. His role is advisory. How does he neglect that?

[Tom Paine]

Soren is also an excellent person in terms of knowledge of the site; of how the whole thing runs; and so on. He is also aiding out fledgling Chief Moderator; who attained the role only a short while ago; we cannot and do not, and you should not, expect instant expertise - until expertise is attained, the person with greatest competance over the moderation side of things in the recent times is aiding and advising him.

[Erich von Manstein]

I couldn't disagree with this more. Hex is ultimately responsible for determining this site's policy. Every member of Hex has a voice and a vote when discussing policy proposals. Soren has quite a bit of experience in his position and his voice is an important and necessary one on the Council. I do not and probably never will understand this latest crusade that various members of the Curia have launched against Hex. I see no horrendous or even minor problems being caused by the alleged "top-heaviness" of Hex. Indeed, a have a hard time understanding how 1 administrator per 300 active members and 2,600 inactive members. Perhaps the Curia has grown bored by the lack of drama and wishes to create its own?

[Muizer]

I do not and probably never will understand this latest crusade that various members of the Curia have launched against Hex.

Isn't this a storm in a tea cup? Even if it went to a vote it wouldn't pass. The Curia isn't exactly queuing up to vote Soren out as far as I can tell.

[Mímirswell]

To be fair, I do very little in the way of technical work these days. I had to take a vacation from the site recently (read: work) and increasingly Simetrical is lacking the need for much consultation. In addition he has two other advisers who help him as well (though Nihil is on Hiatus).

That's not to say I do nothing in regards to technical work but rather I have long advocated a system of technical attaches to support a technical administrator at TWC and should I interfere too frequently, Simetrical will not be able to evaluate how useful they are. One day, Simetrical will no longer wish to continue in his role and we need suitable replacements as soon as possible.

So then, where does that leave me then as a member of Hex? My experiences in life and on TWC allow me to fill the gamut of roles in Hex either as an active agent or an adviser. More importantly (at least in de facto terms), Ian has been persistent that he wants me in Hex and the moment that changes or I feel that I contribute little of value, I will resign without protest. That said, I am happy that people are rigorously examining these issues to ensure that Staff is efficient and functioning and I hope this sheds some light on my position. I realize it's hard to quantify what an adviser actually does but that's the role.

[Hotspur]

Isn't this a storm in a tea cup? Even if it went to a vote it wouldn't pass. The Curia isn't exactly queuing up to vote Soren out as far as I can tell.

QFT. Elrond doesn't speak for the Curia. Elrond speaks for Elrond and if this ridiculousness actually went to a vote, I have no doubt it would be crushed. After all, he passed his ratification with nearly 87% in favor.

[Tom Paine]

however the vote is non binding except in the case of staff officers

Well, they are anyway, Elrond, except myself.

[imb39]

We have the previous incumbant in place already - why not let him carry on for a short while? I find it bizarre that you think otherwise. I do believe it is called continuity.

[Elrond]

We have the previous incumbant in place already - why not let him carry on for a short while? I find it bizarre that you think otherwise. I do believe it is called continuity.

It depends entirely now long a short while is - if its a matter of a couple of days then I doubt anyone would have a problem with that - the point is that Soren is unlikely to leave anytime soon.

Garb: So are you stating that it is impossible for the curia to get rid of a non permeant council member?

If this is the case then Soren could say what he liked e.g. arguing against Nazism is a banable offence, and according to what you have said there would be nothing the curia could do.

[Garbarsardar]

Garb: So are you stating that it is impossible for the curia to get rid of a non permeant council member?

If this is the case then Soren could say what he liked e.g. arguing against Nazism is a banable offence, and according to what you have said there would be nothing the curia could do.

It is possible if he neglects his duty or abuses his authority.

If he stated that "arguing against Nazism is a banable offence" that would be an abuse of his authority as he has no right to change the ToS or interpret it in an extremely personal way.

[Tom Paine]

Only if Manstein breaks staff nondisclosure to tell Soren what's happening and where he needs help, a problem in and of itself. Hm.

[Erich von Manstein]

As Garb has pointed out, you have failed to accuse him of neglecting his duty or abusing his powers. And, as the constitution states:

Frivolous use of this procedure may result in disciplinary proceedings.

So, before you propose any future votes of no confidence, I urge you to bring your votes of no confidence in line with the constitution. Otherwise, not only will they be automatically invalid, but the CdeC could constitutionally take action against you.

[deRougemont]

So, before you propose any future votes of no confidence, I urge you to bring your votes of no confidence in line with the constitution. Otherwise, not only will they be automatically invalid, but the CdeC could constitutionally take action against you.

That's a bit strong isn't it? I don't think he's being frivolous. Incorrect perhaps (I take no side), but he is not toying around, which is what I assume such harsh actions are meant for.

[Erich von Manstein]

That's a bit strong isn't it? I don't think he's being frivolous. Incorrect perhaps (I take no side), but he is not toying around, which is what I assume such harsh actions are meant for.

I would assume "frivolous" to mean bringing votes of no confidence that have no grounds in the constitution.