The Trinity thread

[Arrington]

Directly or indirectly this topic often arises in other threads. Providing the Trinity with its own thread will allow for a more detailed discussion. So...here's where I stand.

Firstly, I don't know that it is as important as most make it out to be. God chose to reveal only so much about Himself. We likely wouldn't understand it if he did. So, if we don't fully grasp it and if some come away with a slightly different idea of the Trinity after reading scripture it should not become such a divisive issue. So try to remain civil to one another. That said....

I don't adhere to the trinity doctrine as it is presented in most creeds. I acknowledge that Christ is the "exact representation" of God's being and is essentially how we experience the invisible God. However, I don't think Christ is just one of 3 masks God wears to reveal Himself to us. He is a different "person". In the Kingdom of Heaven God will call us sons and Christ will call us brothers. Different.

I would like to get much more in depth with scripture and discussion but first I'll wait to see if anybody is remotely interested or if I'm a loser talking to myself .

[enoch]

arius was right

[Arrington]

What is the Arian take on Jesus? Just a man? A man perfected by the full-measure of the Holy Spirit? I don't remember.

I personally view Christ as more than a man. He is the only begotten. All else is created.

[enoch]

straight from the mouth of his condemners

the man

his truth

[Arrington]

Thanks for the link enoch. Good read. I grew up with the Protestant idea of a Trinity. Since then I have found it difficult to find the Trinity in scripture. I try not to attack the Trinity but I'm rather seeking more opinions and info because I am not ready to spread something I am still so unsure of.

I think based on the reading you brought forth I would be somewhere close to a Semi-Arian in thought. I am open to correction and better understanding though.

[enoch]

thats because the trinity of dogma today wasn't fully formed until centuries after Christ's death -

the modern idea of trinity was decided upon and then gospels that promoted it became "the gospels" and churches that didn't "accept" the new rules went the way of Carthage

even then, the argument continued for a long time and is probably the most important interpretation the Early Church made - the trinity isn't really in the bible in the end - it is easier found in the works of the Church fathers that disagreed with Arius and his ilk

[Arrington]

the trinity isn't really in the bible it the end - it is far better found in the works of the Church fathers that disagreed with Arius and his ilk

Even if certain Gospels were selected because they fit the bill for more trinitarian view point they still, as you noted above, don't much contain a trinity. The doctrine is really pieced together and there is much scripture pointing to the contrary. Hence my problem.

[enoch]

the trinity was not a concept of the Early church, and actually was more of a pagan concept of divinity than a jewish one

the jewish god never takes human form - while pagan gods are commonly humanoid - it also harkened back to the Demi god nature of elevated men like Imhotep

the trinity was monotheised by the church councils using pagan structures, which is a common history for what we today understand Christianity to be

[Arrington]

I'm looking for help to find an understanding of the trinity using scripture. I know about John 1:1 and readily admit it points me in the direction of Christ or at least part of Him being God. But then there is plenty of other scriptural evidence to the contrary. What do Trinitarians make of this verse?

1 Corinthians 8:6
yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

[enoch]

I'm looking for help to find an understanding of the trinity using scripture. I know about John 1:1 and readily admit it points me in the direction of Christ or at least part of Him being God. But then there is plenty of other scriptural evidence to the contrary. What do Trinitarians make of this verse?

1 Corinthians 8:6
yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

trinity can't be found in biblical scripture - you need to look at the works of the early church fathers

all from the wiki

The first recorded use of the word in Christian theology was in about 180 AD by Theophilus of Antioch who used it of "God, his Word, and his Wisdom."[4][5] In about 200 AD Tertullian used it of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. (As discussed below, the persons of the Trinity can be named in different ways.)[5]


The New Testament also does not use the word "Τριάς" (Trinity), nor explicitly teach it.[8] The Trinity article in Encyclopedia Britannica states: "Neither the word Trinity nor the explicit doctrine appears in the New Testament, nor did Jesus and his followers intend to contradict the Shema in the Old Testament: "Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord" (Deuteronomy 6:4)."[9]Encyclopedia of Religion for example argues that "God the Father is source of all that is (Pantokrator) and also the father of Jesus Christ; "Father" is not a title for the first person of Trinity but a synonym for God"[citation needed]. Early liturgical and creedal formulas speak of God as "Father of our Lord Jesus Christ"; praise is to be rendered to God through Christ (see opening greeting in Paul and deutero-Paul). There are other binitarian texts (e.g. Rom 4:24 ; 8:11; 2 Cor. 4:14; Col. 2:12; 1 Tm. 2:5–6; 6:13;2 Tm. 4:1), and a few triadic texts (the strongest are 2 Cor. 13:14 and Mt 28:19)."[6]

According to Encyclopedia Britannica, while Trinity does not explicitly appear in the New Testament, its basis is established by the New Testament: The coming of Jesus Christ and the presumed presence and power of God among them had implications for the early Christians. "The Holy Spirit, whose coming was connected with the celebration of the Pentecost. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit were associated in such New Testament passages as the Great Commission: "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit" (Matthew 28:19); and in the apostolic benediction: "The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all" (2Corinthians 13:14)."[9] The Great Commission reflects the baptismal practice at Matthew's time (or later if this line is interpolated, according to The Oxford Companion of the Bible). Aside from this verse, although "Matthew records a special connection between God the Father and Jesus the Son (e.g., 11:27), but he falls short of claiming that Jesus is equal with God (cf. 24:36)."[10]

According to the The Oxford Companion of the Bible, 2Corinthians 13:14 is the earliest evidence for a tripartite formula. The Oxford Companion of the Bible states that it is possible that this three-part formula was later added to the text as it was copied. However, there is support for the authenticity of the passage since its phrasing "is much closer to Paul's understandings of God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit than to a more fully developed concept of the Trinity. Jesus, referred to not as Son but as Lord and Christ, is mentioned first and is connected with the central Pauline theme of grace. God is referred to as a source of love, not as father, and the Spirit promotes sharing within community."[10]

The Gospel of John does suggest the equality and unity of Father and Son. ("I and the Father are one"; 10.30). This Gospel starts with "the affirmation that in the beginning Jesus as Word "was with God and ...was God" (1.1) and ends (chap.21 is more likely a later addition) with Thomas's confession of faith to Jesus, "My Lord and my God!" (20:28)."[10] There is no significant tendency among modern scholars to deny that either of these two verses identify Jesus with God.[11]


these are properly sourced statements and should get you started - the wiki is pretty good on this if you focus on the history part and skip the religious debate

[Turbo]

trinity can't be found in biblical scripture - you need to look at the works of the early church fathers

all from the wiki

The first recorded use of the word in Christian theology was in about 180 AD by Theophilus of Antioch who used it of "God, his Word, and his Wisdom."[4][5] In about 200 AD Tertullian used it of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. (As discussed below, the persons of the Trinity can be named in different ways.)[5]


The New Testament also does not use the word "Τριάς" (Trinity), nor explicitly teach it.[8] The Trinity article in Encyclopedia Britannica states: "Neither the word Trinity nor the explicit doctrine appears in the New Testament, nor did Jesus and his followers intend to contradict the Shema in the Old Testament: "Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord" (Deuteronomy 6:4)."[9]Encyclopedia of Religion for example argues that "God the Father is source of all that is (Pantokrator) and also the father of Jesus Christ; "Father" is not a title for the first person of Trinity but a synonym for God"[citation needed]. Early liturgical and creedal formulas speak of God as "Father of our Lord Jesus Christ"; praise is to be rendered to God through Christ (see opening greeting in Paul and deutero-Paul). There are other binitarian texts (e.g. Rom 4:24 ; 8:11; 2 Cor. 4:14; Col. 2:12; 1 Tm. 2:5–6; 6:13;2 Tm. 4:1), and a few triadic texts (the strongest are 2 Cor. 13:14 and Mt 28:19)."[6]

According to Encyclopedia Britannica, while Trinity does not explicitly appear in the New Testament, its basis is established by the New Testament: The coming of Jesus Christ and the presumed presence and power of God among them had implications for the early Christians. "The Holy Spirit, whose coming was connected with the celebration of the Pentecost. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit were associated in such New Testament passages as the Great Commission: "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit" (Matthew 28:19); and in the apostolic benediction: "The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all" (2Corinthians 13:14)."[9] The Great Commission reflects the baptismal practice at Matthew's time (or later if this line is interpolated, according to The Oxford Companion of the Bible). Aside from this verse, although "Matthew records a special connection between God the Father and Jesus the Son (e.g., 11:27), but he falls short of claiming that Jesus is equal with God (cf. 24:36)."[10]

According to the The Oxford Companion of the Bible, 2Corinthians 13:14 is the earliest evidence for a tripartite formula. The Oxford Companion of the Bible states that it is possible that this three-part formula was later added to the text as it was copied. However, there is support for the authenticity of the passage since its phrasing "is much closer to Paul's understandings of God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit than to a more fully developed concept of the Trinity. Jesus, referred to not as Son but as Lord and Christ, is mentioned first and is connected with the central Pauline theme of grace. God is referred to as a source of love, not as father, and the Spirit promotes sharing within community."[10]

The Gospel of John does suggest the equality and unity of Father and Son. ("I and the Father are one"; 10.30). This Gospel starts with "the affirmation that in the beginning Jesus as Word "was with God and ...was God" (1.1) and ends (chap.21 is more likely a later addition) with Thomas's confession of faith to Jesus, "My Lord and my God!" (20:28)."[10] There is no significant tendency among modern scholars to deny that either of these two verses identify Jesus with God.[11]


these are properly sourced statements and should get you started - the wiki is pretty good on this if you focus on the history part and skip the religious debate

Don't have others interpret for you what you can learn for yourself:

"go and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost" (Matthew 28:18).

"Do you not believe, that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me?" (Phillip14:10), and in other passages no less explicit ( Phillip 14:7; 16:15; 17:21).

"The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, and the charity of God, and the communication of the Holy Ghost be with you all (2 Corinthians 13:13)."

"The Holy Ghost shall teach you in the same hour what you must say" ( Luke 12:12, Matthew 10:20, and Luke 24:49).

He (Christ) dwells in the Church and in the souls of individual men, as in His temple - (Romans 8:9-11; 1 Corinthians 3:16, 6:19).

[basics]

Enoch,

You are quite wrong in what you say for on three occasions is the divinity or divine nature of the Godhead mantioned in the New Testament.

The Acts chapter 17, v 29 although not saying Godhead in fact is the same Greek word for the Godhead meaning divine or divinity.

Romans chapter 1, v 20 does quote His divine power again using the word meaning Godhead.

Colossians chapter 2, v 9 states that in Christ all the fulness of the Deity lives in bodily form. Again the same Greek meaning Godhead.

But you are perfectly correct in saying Trinity does not appear anywhere in Scripture.

[Turbo]

Enoch,

You are quite wrong in what you say for on three occasions is the divinity or divine nature of the Godhead mantioned in the New Testament.

The Acts chapter 17, v 29 although not saying Godhead in fact is the same Greek word for the Godhead meaning divine or divinity.

Romans chapter 1, v 20 does quote His divine power again using the word meaning Godhead.

Colossians chapter 2, v 9 states that in Christ all the fulness of the Deity lives in bodily form. Again the same Greek meaning Godhead.

But you are perfectly correct in saying Trinity does not appear anywhere in Scripture.

Well, I posted other passages in the bible but they have been overlooked or ignored. A similar post showing a quote from Clement I (the 4th pope in 80 ad) was also ignored in another thread. There seems to be no sense in continuing this discussion.

[Arrington]

Enoch,

You are quite wrong in what you say for on three occasions is the divinity or divine nature of the Godhead mantioned in the New Testament.

The Acts chapter 17, v 29 although not saying Godhead in fact is the same Greek word for the Godhead meaning divine or divinity.

Romans chapter 1, v 20 does quote His divine power again using the word meaning Godhead.

Acts
29"Therefore since we are God's offspring, we should not think that the divine being is like gold or silver or stone—an image made by man's design and skill.
Romans
20For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.

I don't see the trinity argument in these verses but maybe I'm out of the loop on your discussion with enoch.

Colossians chapter 2, v 9 states that in Christ all the fulness of the Deity lives in bodily form. Again the same Greek meaning Godhead.

Looking at Colossians 2 verses 9 and 10...

9For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form, 10and you have been given fullness in Christ, who is the head over every power and authority.

Chirst is given fullness in the Deity (God), thus He is God. Verse 10 says you (Paul's audience/the Colossians) have been given fullness in Christ, thus you are Christ. It can't work one way and not the other.

But you are perfectly correct in saying Trinity does not appear anywhere in Scripture.

It seems that the trinity developed a bit over time. Was its current form due to the progressive revelation over time of God through the Church? If so, is that a problem? It implies that scripture was not complete on the subject.

[Arrington]

Don't have others interpret for you what you can learn for yourself:

This is a subject I have struggled with for a couple years now. I've tried to read scripture on my own and can't find the trinity in it. I'm now looking for additional input from others as scripture should not be left to "private interpretation" (2 Peter 1:20). I don't mean to attack the trinity as I'm unsure myself and am in no position to teach anything on the matter. Just looking for help/input.

"go and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost" (Matthew 28:18).

I have raised this question in another post. This verse is not compatible with how the apostles baptised in the book of Acts which was in the name of Jesus only. So I don't feel comfortable using this as support for the trinity doctrine until I find an answer there.

"Do you not believe, that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me?" (Phillip14:10), and in other passages no less explicit ( Phillip 14:7; 16:15; 17:21).

I think you meant John - not Philippians. Here is John 17:21 in its entirety

21that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me.

The trinitarian way of thinking says Chirst is in the Father and the Father is in Chirst so they are one. Verse 21 shows that we are also in the Father and Christ but that doesn't make us part of the trinity.

"The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, and the charity of God, and the communication of the Holy Ghost be with you all (2 Corinthians 13:13)."

This verse would indicate that there is a definite relationship between the two but it doesn't unite them as one. There is no trinity here.

"The Holy Ghost shall teach you in the same hour what you must say" ( Luke 12:12, Matthew 10:20, and Luke 24:49).

He (Christ) dwells in the Church and in the souls of individual men, as in His temple - (Romans 8:9-11; 1 Corinthians 3:16, 6:19).

These verses don't support the trinity doctrine either really. Certainly they don't express the idea of co-equal, co-eternal....if you presented the Bible to someone who had no concept of our religion (deep from the Amazon or something) I don't think they would come away with any concept of a trinity. These verses when not read through a trinitarian filter don't really support much imho.

[Arrington]

Enoch,
Thanks for the info. I looked further into Tertullian. Here are some brief selections from his writings (I'm still looking for Theophilus of Antioch). Interestingly, it seems that although he did use the term trinity (highlighted in red) the overall tone of his writings does not mirror a clear cut trinitarian thought process. I would say it sounds more Arian. It adds to my suspicision that the trinity doctrine evolved over several hundred years after Christ's death.

Tertullian
The object of our worship is the One God, He who by His commanding Word, His arranging Wisdom, His Mighty Power, brought forth out of nothing the entire substance of our world, with all its array ofelements, bodies, spirits, for the glory of His majesty, whence also the Greeks have given it the name ofkosmos. (Apology, 17).

Christ... the Power of God, and the Spirit of God, as the Word, the Reason, the Wisdom, and the Son of God. (Apology, 23).

We have already declared that God made the world, and all which it contains, by His Word, and Reason, and Power. It is abundantly plain that your philosophers, too, regard the Logos, that is, the Wordand Reason, as the Creator of the universe...And we, in like manner, hold that the Word, and Reason, andPower, by which we have said God made all, have spirit as their proper and essential substratum, in whichthe Word has inbeing to give forth utterances, and reason abides to dispose and arrange, and power is overall to execute. We have been taught that he proceeds forth from God, and in that procession he is generated[begotten], so that he is the Son of God, and is called "God" from unity of substance with God. For God, too,is Spirit. Even when the ray is shot from the sun, it is still part of the parent mass, the sun will still be in the
ray, because it is a ray of the sun--there is no division of substance, but merely an extension. Thus Christ is spirit of the Spirit, and god of the God, as light of Light is kindled. The material matrix remains entireand unimpaired, though you derive from it any number of shoots possessed of its qualities; so, too, that whichhas come forth out of God is at once "God" and the Son of God, and the two are one. In this way also, as heis Spirit of the Spirit and God of the God, He is made second in manner of existence, in position, not innature, and He did not withdraw from the original source, but went forth. This ray of God, then, as it wasalways foretold in ancient times, descending into a certain virgin, and made flesh in her womb, is in his birth
God and man united. Apology, 21).

These all start with the same principles of the faith, so far as relates to the One Only God the Creator and His Christ. (Against Marcion, IV, 2).

The Christ of the Creator had to be called a Nazarene according to prophecy. (Against Marcion, IV, 8).

Therefore Christ belonged to John, and John to Christ, while both belonged to the Creator. (Against Marcion, IV, 11).

The apostle can hardly be thought to have ranked the Creator among those who are called gods, without being so, since, even if they had been gods, "to us there is but one God, the Father." Now, from whom do all things come to us, but from Him to whom all things belong? And pray tell, what things are these? You have them in a preceding part of the letter, "All things are yours, whether Paul, or Apollos, or Cephas, or the world, or life, or death, or things present, or things to come." He makes the Creator, then the God of all things, from whom proceed both the world and life and death, which. cannot possibly belong to the other god. From Him,therefore, among those "all things" comes also Christ. (Against Marcion, Book V, 7).

We, however, as we indeed always have done and more especially since we have been better instructed by the Paraclete [the Comforter], who leads men indeed into all truth, believe that there is One God Alone, but under the following dispensation, or oikonomia, as it is called, that this One God Alone also has a Son, HisWord, who proceeded from Himself, by whom all things were made, and without whom nothing wasmade. Him we believe to have been sent by the Father into the virgin, and to have been born of her, being both human and deity, the Son of Man and the Son of God, and to have been called by the name of Jesus Christ, we believe him to have suffered, died, and been buried, according to the Scriptures, and, after He had
been raised again by the Father and taken back to heaven, to be sitting at the right hand of the Father, and that he will come to judge the living and the dead, who sent also from heaven from the Father, according to his own promise, the Holy Spirit, the Paraclete, the sanctifier of the faith of those who believe in the Father,and in the Son, and in the Holy Spirit. That this rule of faith has come down to us from the beginning of the gospel.... All are of One, by unity of substance, while the mystery of the dispensation is still kept,which distributes the unity into a trinity, placing in their order the three persons, the Father, the Son, and
the Holy Spirit: three, however, not in condition, but in degree, not in substance, but in form, not in power, but in aspect, yet of one substance, and of one condition, and of one power, inasmuch as He is one God, from whom these degrees and forms and aspects are reckoned, under the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. (Against Praxeas, 2).

For before all things God was Alone, being in Himself and for Himself universe, and space, and all things. Moreover, He was Alone, because there was nothing external to Him but Himself. Yet even not thenwas He Alone, for He had with Him that which He possessed in Himself, that is to say, His own Reason. ForGod is rational, and Reason was first in Him, and so all things were from Himself. This Reason is His own Thought (or Consciousness) which the Greeks call Logos, by which term we also designate Word...thateven then before the creation of the universe God was not alone, since He had within Himself both Reason,and, inherent in Reason, His Word, which He made second to Himself by arousing it within Himself.(Against Praxeas, 6).

For the Father is the entire substance, but the Son is a derivation and portion of the whole, as he himself confesses, "My Father is greater than I." In the Psalm his inferiority is described as being "a little lower than the angels." Thus the Father is distinct from the Son, being greater than the Son, inasmuch as He whobegets is one, and he who is begotten is another. He, too, who sends is one, and he who is sent is another, and He, again, who makes is one, and he through whom the thing is made is another. (Against
Praxeas, 9).

[enoch]

Enoch,
[B][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana-Bold][FONT=Times New Roman]Thanks for the info. I looked further into Tertullian. Here are some brief selections from his writings (I'm still looking for Theophilus of Antioch). Interestingly, it seems that although he did use the term trinity (highlighted in red) the overall tone of his writings does not mirror a clear cut trinitarian thought process. I would say it sounds more Arian. It adds to my suspicision that the trinity doctrine evolved over several hundred years after Christ's death

it need not be suspicion - even the Various Christian Churches (outside of the literalists) (so the non evangelical american churches and the majority of the european and asian churches) accept the timeline as fact
africa and SA are very impoverished and less open to thought so things are still a little different for them
they simply justify it as god's gradual revelation, which is perfectly acceptable

the historical timeline on the concept of Trinity hasn't been a secret for two hundred years and is established historical fact as far as the majority of theologians are concerned, particularly the ones who work for the most respected academic institutions of the earth

[Turbo]

Enoch,

Sorry about the earlier caustic comment. I regret it.

Here is my logic --

1) "go and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost" (Matthew 28:18).
Matthew identifies the trinity and the baptismal rite is a rebirth in Christ

"Do you not believe, that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me?" (Phillip14:10), and in other passages no less explicit ( Phillip 14:7; 16:15; 17:21). Christ and the Father are as one.

"The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, and the charity of God, and the communication of the Holy Ghost be with you all (2 Corinthians 13:13)."
Again the trinity all mentioned under one blessing - significant in that blessings are done under God.

He (Christ) dwells in the Church and in the souls of individual men, as in His temple - (Romans 8:9-11; 1 Corinthians 3:16, 6:19). Christ and the Holy Ghost is as one as the Holy ghost dwells in the souls of men. Since we know that the Father and Christ are as one, this passage also shows that Christ and the Holy Ghost are as one.

[enoch]

Enoch,

Sorry about the earlier caustic comment. I regret it.

Here is my logic --

1) "go and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost" (Matthew 28:18).
Matthew identifies the trinity and the baptismal rite is a rebirth in Christ

"Do you not believe, that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me?" (Phillip14:10), and in other passages no less explicit ( Phillip 14:7; 16:15; 17:21). Christ and the Father are as one.

"The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, and the charity of God, and the communication of the Holy Ghost be with you all (2 Corinthians 13:13)."
Again the trinity all mentioned under one blessing - significant in that blessings are done under God.

He (Christ) dwells in the Church and in the souls of individual men, as in His temple - (Romans 8:9-11; 1 Corinthians 3:16, 6:19). Christ and the Holy Ghost is as one as the Holy ghost dwells in the souls of men. Since we know that the Father and Christ are as one, this passage also shows that Christ and the Holy Ghost are as one.

no worries - i think it is bs that we aren't allowed to attack the true source of all arguments on here, the person arguing, but are rather trapped arguing against what are really secondary sources considering the non academic bent of the community threads as a whole

your quotes do not explain or even really hint at anything included in the nature of the Trinity as we today understand it

but I will comment on one of them for the sake of it,

"the father in me" to a jewish thinker of the time would have meant god dwells in every being not only in Jesus

[Arrington]

Enoch, I found some selections from Theophilus and some from Clement (Turbo mentioned in a previous post). Again it appears there is no implication of a trinitarian belief. In fact, careful distinction is made to seperate the two with no mention of a third co-equal being. It seems again like an evolving doctrine.

Theophilus of Antioch (ca. 175 A.D)

God made all things out of nothing, for nothing was coexisting with God, but He being His own place, and wanting nothing, and existing before the ages, willed to make man by whom He might be known, for him, therefore, He prepared the world. For he that is created is also needy, but He that is uncreated stands in need of nothing. God, then, having His own Word internal within His own bosom, begat him, emitting him along with His own wisdom before all things. He had this Word as a helper in the things that were created by Him, and by him He made all things. He [the Word] is called "the Beginning" [arche],1 because he rules, and is Lord of all things fashioned by him. He, then, being Spirit of God, and arche, and wisdom, and
Power of The Highest, came down upon the prophets, and through them spoke of the creation of the world and of all other things. For the prophets were not when the world came into existence, but the wisdom of God
which was in him, and His holy Word which was always present with him. Wherein he speaks thus by the prophet Solomon: "When He prepared the heavens I was there, and when He appointed the foundations of the earth I was by Him as one brought up with Him." And Moses, who lived many years before Solomon, or, rather, the Word of God by Him as by an instrument, says, "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth." First he named the "Beginning," and "creation," then he brought in God, for not lightly and on slight occasion is it right to name God. For the divine wisdom foreknew that some would trifle and name a multitude of gods that do not exist. In order, therefore, that the Living God might be known by His
works, and so that by His Word, God created the heavens and the earth, and all that is therein, he [Moses] said, "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." Then having spoken of their creation, he [Moses] explains to us: "And the earth was without form, and void, and darkness was upon the face of the deep, and the Spirit of God moved upon the water." This, Holy Scripture teaches at the outset, to show that matter, from which God made and fashioned the world, was in some manner created, being
produced by God. (10).

Clement (ca 85 A.D)

Clement acknowledges that there is One Almighty God and one Christ. He taught that the creator of the universe is the Father.

"The church of God which sojourns at Rome, to the church of God sojourning at Corinth, to those who are called and sanctified by the will of God through our Lord Jesus Christ. Grace to you, and peace, be multiplied, from Almighty God through Jesus Christ. For Christ is of those who are humble, and not of those who Lord over his flock. Our Lord Jesus Christ, the sceptre of the majesty of God, did not come in pomp of pride or arrogance, although He might have done so,

but in a humble state. (16).

Let us look steadfastly to the Father and Creator of the universe. (19).

All these the great Creator and Lord of all has appointed to exist in peace and harmony, while He does good to all, but most abundantly to us who have fled for safety to His compassions through Jesus Christ our Lord, to Whom be glory and Majesty for ever and ever. Amen. (20)

How blessed and marvellous, beloved, are the gifts of God....The Creator and Father of all worlds ages, the Most Holy, alone knows their amount and their beauty. (35).

Christ therefore was sent forth by God, and the apostles by Christ (42).

Have we not one God and one Christ?

Is there not one Spirit of grace poured out upon us? (46).

May God, who sees everything, and Who is the Ruler of all spirits and the Lord of all flesh, Who chose our Lord Jesus Christ and us through Him to be a peculiar people, grant to every soul that calls upon His glorious and holy Name, faith, fear, peace, patience, longsuffering, self-control, purity, and sobriety, to the well pleasing of His Name, through our High Priest and Protector, Jesus Christ, through whom be to Him glory,
and Majesty, and power, and honour, both now and for evermore. Amen. (58).