Religion, science, metaphysics, spiritualism, belief systems... do they even do anything for anybody?

**Axe-Battler** · May 07, 2007, 01:45 AM

I've studied and read about many types of systems, I started out a christian when I was 14, stopped believing in it, got obsessed with mathematics, then physics, then quantum physics, soon metaphysics along with conspiracy theories, then spiritualism... all that while I was forming up my own theories on all of it, trying to combine it all, and integrate it.

Eventually I just realized... It doesn't do anything, to believe in something, to follow texts/beliefs/philosophies/sciences/thoughts/books made by other men.

When I say something like this to people "I believe in a higher power, and also, that there is no higher power"... people don't understand it... (if you argue with that statement, then you don't understand it either, how duals and opposites exist simulataneously).

Or when someone asks me "What do you think started the universe?"
I respond, "nothing started the universe."

and they say "So you're athiest?"
NO, that does not mean that.

And then I always imagine how short minded people are, rather, unaware... in the way that there's millions and millions of ideas and belief systems in the world, but yet the world still suffers mercilessly, have they ever been of use then? Well, if you just use common sense, NO, beliefs have not ever done anything for anybody.

Then you'll of course think by my statements that I'm a pessimist, when in fact I'm one of the most happiest and positive people I know of, in fact I purposely refuse to watch the news and gory movies and shows to avoid poisoning my subconscious with violence.

And science, was a pointless invention... all sciences were pointless...

the apes did just fine without it, in fact, they lived happier, more natural lives...they didn't know of hatred, and suicide.

FACT: No animal has ever commited suicide intentionally.

If this doesn't say something, then I don't know what does...
Of course you'll say "their too stupid to know how"...
but that means nothing, animals wouldn't commit suicide even if they knew how, science proved, as well as taoists have thought of for over 6000 years(4000 BC) that animals are content with whatever situation they are in, they can deal with it...they do not have egos...that's why dogs can sit still for hours and hours, and the only reason dogs may seem like a miserable animal, is because they have become humanized.

That my friends, is why belief systems from A - Z, 1 - infinity are pointless.

**~~Ummon~~** · May 07, 2007, 02:36 AM

Knowledge enriches your mind. Complexity ensues. Complexity causes two things:

1) stability
2) computational power

With one side effect:

3) pleasure

**Axe-Battler** · May 07, 2007, 02:43 AM

I used to find reading books on all kinds of strange sciences fun... interesting...cool... now it just dulls me and makes me angry.

I used to try to quantum leap, when I finally admitted I couldn't do it, because my mind was too weak, I tried to explore other dimensions, which through any meditation I could not do...

Then I started reading about these metaphysical conspiracies, mainly politics and the matrix themed, on how extraterrestrials started all religions/sciences/ideas and control the world covertly... which now I can find no comfort in any religions or things that mention "higher enlightened beings", now I view them as pure evil...even though I don't believe or study conspiracies anymore.

Then I wanted to become enlightened, which I found no more comforting, since it often involved the words "sentient beings" which of course have it in my subconscious that that means they are aliens...

I suppose I use "belief systems do nothing" for an excuse...

but nonetheless I have no love for learning anymore.

**~~Ummon~~** · May 07, 2007, 02:45 AM

It all depends on the quality, and quantity of your study and dedication. Conspiracy theories are not serious stuff. Scientific study has rules, which do not imply random correlation of structurally similar facts.

To know symbols and their erratic nature is one thing, to be victim os reified concepts another.

**Axe-Battler** · May 07, 2007, 02:55 AM

okay I think...

perhaps I just found that I read too much variety, and everything just lost any sense of "truth" to it, such as maybe I stretched too far that I snapped...

So now perhaps the question is "how do I fix myself"?

**boofhead** · May 07, 2007, 02:56 AM

NO, beliefs have not ever done anything for anybody.

Without my religious belief system I would be dead. It helped me a great deal at a time in my life when the light at the end of the tunnel of death was beckoning irresistably. There was no future I could see in those dark days bar one tiny spark of hope, which I didn't really even believe in. But I grasped it, and held on tight, and that spark is now a fire burning within me, some 2 decades later.

So yeah religion is good for something when it comes to me. It saved my life.

And science, was a pointless invention... all sciences were pointless.

I don't understand why you would say that.....science has done wonderful things....

Ramtha, life itself is learning - if you have no interest in learning.....it sounds like you may be depressed or something....

**Captain Arrrgh!** · May 07, 2007, 03:07 AM

Ramtha, there are far more enlightened than me on this site, and most are more intelligent than me, but it sounds like you are just before the apex on the climb in the accumulation of gnosis. The other side of this extremely fruitful, and I hope you continue. There are ever more layers of the onion to peel, but the aroma gets ever more rewarding, and the sting becomes....not less, but more appreciated.

Sorry, just got the last post:
[quote] I used obsess over trippy concepts, but now I hate them[\quote]
Is this because, with in certain groups or with certain company, they border on pretentious? I found this also. But with the right people, with sincere seekers, even the oldest questions can have their mortis removed and recieve new life.

**Ragabash** · May 08, 2007, 05:13 AM

Originally Posted by boofhead

Without my religious belief system I would be dead. It helped me a great deal at a time in my life when the light at the end of the tunnel of death was beckoning irresistably. There was no future I could see in those dark days bar one tiny spark of hope, which I didn't really even believe in. But I grasped it, and held on tight, and that spark is now a fire burning within me, some 2 decades later.

So yeah religion is good for something when it comes to me. It saved my life.

Are you sure it was the religion that saved your life, or just that your subconscious that accepted the most obvious and reasonable solution to give you strength you need to survive, religious motion.

This is not an attack against your faith, I have just noticed that the same has occured several of my friends in a same sort of life situation and this could be an answer to this question, at least the answer I like to believe if no more.

**Axe-Battler** · May 07, 2007, 03:01 AM

I used to obsess over "trippy" concepts... now I hate them and find them stupid... I don't know what really happened to me, there's nothing I can really say, it's not depression I work out all the time, laugh constantly, etc...

I just failed.

**Axe-Battler** · May 07, 2007, 03:09 AM

But is it a good sign for me that I was watching a science show the other day about a autistic man who had the greatest memory in world, and it was defining all these concepts of the brain... which I could turn what they said into multiple different theories and concepts in my mind and enjoy doing it finding it entertaining?

That's a sign that I still have it in me right? Is it perhaps showing that I was studying the wrong kind of stuff?

**~~Ummon~~** · May 07, 2007, 03:10 AM

Perhaps you should consider trying to discover what is the right stuff for you.

**redirflow** · May 07, 2007, 03:11 AM

In my own view:

knowledge only will corrrupt your soul;
wisdom+knowledge will enrich you mind.
you need to learn a lot of things (before you make any conclusion);
Open you "mind" and open all your "senses";
Everything from A-Z or 1-~;
Yes, there is a reason behind;
and the answer is waiting for you.

**Captain Arrrgh!** · May 07, 2007, 03:16 AM

I have never found the wrong stuff, friends. Not even wrong contemplation of stuff.
It is all very valid, and food for thought.
...Well, I guess a focussing of energies on trivialites and work water cooler gossip is the wrong stuff, but in the terms of examining items in the quest for gnosis, I can't find any topic or stream of contemplation wrong.

**boofhead** · May 07, 2007, 03:12 AM

Maybe give it a break for a while....then come back to it/or not.

**~~Ummon~~** · May 07, 2007, 03:13 AM

Wisdom cannot be taught. And to seek wisdom, you need the knowledge that you lack it.

In any case, it is correct to say that there is no predefined way. Infact, nobody knows what to do to become better, or more wise. One first step is to accept your current state, and see what you can do for yourself to make it better.

**Axe-Battler** · May 07, 2007, 03:18 AM

what if instead...

wisdom does not exist because it's just a concept.

And that if you love to learn, then you simply love to learn, but it doesn't mean you're really learning anything(nobody knows).

And that for me, what I use my intellect for, is college and eventually to get a good paying job that's non labor.

Fantasies to me are for falling asleep.

Music for me, is for inspiration...that's why I dislike rap, pop, some rock, soul, and other music that doesn't have that sting that can make your heart vibrate...

but these things don't have a purpose because they have a purpose, they have a purpose because you use them.

**~~Ummon~~** · May 07, 2007, 03:23 AM