New Epithets - creating faction specific epithets

[finneys13]

We need Danish ones.

[Vindahl]

Ok, I guess they dont have to be historical correct right? Many Danish Epipets are impossible to translate, and explain!
So I will just write some random ones.
Here we go...

For Kings & Princes:

- Den Store ( The Great )
- Den Gode ( The Good )
- Den Hellige ( The Saint/The Holy )
- Den Fromme ( The Pious )
- Den Onde ( The Evil )
- Den Gamle ( The Old )
- Den Yngre ( The Young )
- Den Stærke ( The Strong )
- Den Smukke ( The Handsome )
- Sejr ( The Victorious )
- Hunger ( Hunger )
- Den Tykke ( The Fat )
- Den Ærlige ( The Honest )
- Den Fredelige ( The Peaceful )
- Jernside ( Ironside )
- Erobreren ( The Conquerror )
- Den Ædle ( The Noble )
- Korsfareren ( The Crusader )
- Den Gale ( The Mad )
- Blodøkse ( Bloodaxe )
- Skytte ( The Archer )
- Den Enøjede ( The Oneeyed )
- Bonde ( The Farmer )
- Den Ordkloge ( The Wise )
- Røverkonge ( Criminal-King )
- Søkonge ( King of the Seas )
- Gøtekonge ( King of the Swedes )
- Barn ( The Kid )
- Kætter ( The Heretic )
- Den Rige ( The Rich )
- Den Fattige ( The Poor )
- Løvehjerte ( Lionheart )
- Den Dristige ( The Brave/The Bold )
- Den Dovne ( The Lazy )
- Den Frygtløse ( The Fearless )
- Den Spage ( The Silent/ The Stupid )
- Den Trofaste ( The trustworthy )
- Den Uhæderlige ( Disloyal )
- Den Retsindige ( The Justful )
- Den Hengivne ( The Loving/The Kind )
- Bastarden ( The Bastard )
- Den Salige ( The Blessed )

For Princesses:

- Den Fagre ( The Beautiful )
- Den Skønne ( The Gorgeous )
- Den Fromme ( The Pious )
- Skjoldmø ( Shieldmaiden )
- Den Yndige ( The Lovely )
- Den Triste ( The Sad )
- Hofsnog ( Court-Snake )
- Den Fremmelige ( The Wise )
- Vortefjæs ( The REALLY Ugly )
- Den Hæslige ( The Ugly )
- Den Afskyelige ( The Disgusting )
- Den Blåøjede ( The Naive )
- Den Falske ( The Liar )
- Den Ærlige ( The Honest )
- Den Bedrageriske ( Disloyal )
- Den Ømme ( The Kind )
- Den Sky ( The Timid )

I cant come up with any more right now, which is useful for the game. Dont know how many or which kind of epithets you want.
If you come up with a list of what epithets should be translated it would be much easier just to translate for everybody.

[finneys13]

Kingmaker asked for ideally about 5 historically accurate ones, which would be best from them?

[Vindahl]

Hmm, 5...

- Den Store ( The Great ) For the great warrior or diplomatic king
- Den Gode ( The Good ) For the peaceful and kind king
- Den Hellige ( The Saint/The Holy ) For the spiritual and pious king
- Sejr ( The Victorious ) For the great stretegic planner
- Blodøkse ( Bloodaxe ) For the cruel and evil king (I think Blodøkse was actually a Norwegian King, but does that really matters... If you insist on a Danish Historical epithet, then choose "Hunger", for a bad king, who's people is starving.)

[Oswald von Wolkenstein]

I'm interested in pursuing this. As you said Kingmaker, we could focus on the more popular factions, or on whatever factions we receive epithets for from the community.

The hard part will be integrating the new triggers, etc. into current mods, since many of them have already altered these files (though no one has attempted to improve epithets from what I know). For now, we will collect the names and see how much interest exists for this project.

Five epithets per faction seems a good place to start. Contributors could post more in case we expand on this in the future. So, let's lay the ground rules so: 5 epithets in the native language of the faction (this answers finney's question; time for everyone to learn some foreign words ) with their translations and what each epithet should generally be tied to in the triggers.

For example, I'll do the Germans:

der Bär (the bear) ... tie to ?

der Böse (the mad) ... tie to dread

der Einäugige (the one-eyed) ... tie to hitpoints/battles lost/won?

der Grossmütige (the brave) ... tie to chivalry?

der Heilige (the holy) ... tie to piety

These were all epithets used by German princes. As you can see, I'm not sure what to tie them all to at the moment. Kingmaker, could you attach all the vanilla files involved to your first post so everyone can get a look at the triggers, etc.?

-- der Löwe -- the Lion
der Dicke = the fat
mit dem Bart == with the beard (the "mit dem" with the comes up alot)
der Eiserne = th iron one
der Fromme = the pious
-töter = killer
Sachsentöter = saxon killer etc.
- (this could go on and on -- I'll add more later)

[iostephanos]

ERE/Ρωμανία

ho Athlios, "the Wretched"
ho Kakogenes, "the Poor-Bearded"
ho Kakogennetos, "the Wicked-From-Birth"
ho Kalos, "the Good", "the Beautiful"
ho Koutsos, "the Lame"
ho Kyrtos, "the Crookback"
ho Melissogenes, "the Ruddy-Bearded" (named for the various colors of honey)
ho Melissothrix, "the Ruddy-Haired"
ho Nothos, "the Bastard"
ho Xanthos, "the Blond", "the Fair"

steph

[Johan217]

French
My selection
- le Fainéant (the Indolent) - trait: lazy
- le Bègue (the Stammerer) - trait: bad speaker
- le Bienaimé (the Well-liked) - trait: fair in rule, good speaker
- le Débonnaire (the Fair/Genteel) - trait: refined tastes
- le Hutin (the Quarrelsome) - trait: stubborn, intrigue

French translations of existing historical epithets in game
- le Bon (the Good)
- le Sage (the Wise)
- le Bel (the Fair/Beautiful)
- le Hardi (the Bold)
- le Fol (the Mad)
- le Gros (the Fat)

Polish
My selection
- Krzywousty (Wrymouth) - trait: scarred, rude (?) (I don't know why he was named like this)
- Wstydliwy (the Chaste) - trait: piety + frigid wife (historical )
- Laskonogi (Spindleshanks) - trait: austere
- Kędzierzawy (the Curly) - trait: handsome
- Gnuśny (the Lazy) - trait: lazy

Extra
- Plątonogi (Tanglefoot) - trait: physical defect, maybe inbred

Polish translations of existing historical epithets in game
- Sprawiedliwy (the Just)
- Wielki (the Great)
- Pobożny (the Pious)

[iostephanos]

italian

il Male, il Malvagio, "the Bad", "the Wicked"
il Buono, "the Good"
il Temerario, "the Bold"
il Grosso, "the Fat"
il Breve, "the Short"
il Grande, "the Great"
il Bello, "the Fair"


greek

ho Megas, "the Great"
ho Homologetes, "the Confessor"

[Gnostiko]

Hmmm, one that's been bugging me for a while; but how would one ensure faction-specific epithets? Duplicating the triggers and adding isfactiontype xxxx?

Anyone care to speculate if this could be save-game compatible?

[=NF= Vasileios_the2nd]

Does anyone know if we can do the same for specific named_characters?
I want to add a specific epithet to a specific character. But I cannot find any condition to do this job in the export_descr_characters_traits.txt. Do you know if it is possible and how???

[Gnostiko]

ho Kalos, "the Good", "the Beautiful"

This made me think...shouldn't Greek epithets be along the lines of "epithet%s" instead of "%s epithet" e.g. KaloIoannes (John II Komnenos)?

[That Foul Necromancer]

We definitely want to only add epithets that occurred historically. The link that Kingmaker posted has tons of historically used epithets to chose from (though some will have to be spelled using the Roman alphabet).

The definitive work in this area is Fat, Bald and Worthless The curious stories behind noble nicknames by Revd. Robert Easton
It is a hilarious read starting from the opening picture of Charles the Silly and Wenceslas the Worthless processing in regalia at Rheims 1398

Ok, I guess they don't have to be historical correct right? Many Danish Epithets are impossible to translate, and explain!
So I will just write some random ones.
Here we go...

For Kings & Princes:

- Den Store ( The Great )
- Den Gode ( The Good )
- Den Hellige ( The Saint/The Holy )
- Den Fromme ( The Pious )
- Den Onde ( The Evil )
- Den Gamle ( The Old )
- Den Yngre ( The Young )
- Den Stærke ( The Strong )
- Den Smukke ( The Handsome )
- Sejr ( The Victorious )
- Hunger ( Hunger )
- Den Tykke ( The Fat )
- Den Ærlige ( The Honest )
- Den Fredelige ( The Peaceful )
- Jernside ( Ironside )
- Erobreren ( The Conquerror )
- Den Ædle ( The Noble )
- Korsfareren ( The Crusader )
- Den Gale ( The Mad )
- Blodøkse ( Bloodaxe )
- Skytte ( The Archer )
- Den Enøjede ( The Oneeyed )
- Bonde ( The Farmer )
- Den Ordkloge ( The Wise )
- Røverkonge ( Criminal-King )
- Søkonge ( King of the Seas )
- Gøtekonge ( King of the Swedes )
- Barn ( The Kid )
- Kætter ( The Heretic )
- Den Rige ( The Rich )
- Den Fattige ( The Poor )
- Løvehjerte ( Lionheart )
- Den Dristige ( The Brave/The Bold )
- Den Dovne ( The Lazy )
- Den Frygtløse ( The Fearless )
- Den Spage ( The Silent/ The Stupid )
- Den Trofaste ( The trustworthy )
- Den Uhæderlige ( Disloyal )
- Den Retsindige ( The Justful )
- Den Hengivne ( The Loving/The Kind )
- Bastarden ( The Bastard )
- Den Salige ( The Blessed )

For Princesses:

- Den Fagre ( The Beautiful )
- Den Skønne ( The Gorgeous )
- Den Fromme ( The Pious )
- Skjoldmø ( Shieldmaiden )
- Den Yndige ( The Lovely )
- Den Triste ( The Sad )
- Hofsnog ( Court-Snake )
- Den Fremmelige ( The Wise )
- Vortefjæs ( The REALLY Ugly )
- Den Hæslige ( The Ugly )
- Den Afskyelige ( The Disgusting )
- Den Blåøjede ( The Naive )
- Den Falske ( The Liar )
- Den Ærlige ( The Honest )
- Den Bedrageriske ( Disloyal )
- Den Ømme ( The Kind )
- Den Sky ( The Timid )

I cant come up with any more right now, which is useful for the game. Dont know how many or which kind of epithets you want.
If you come up with a list of what epithets should be translated it would be much easier just to translate for everybody.

With the wealth of nicknames bestowed upon our Norse friend this lot is a little bland lets try
Thorarin bag-nose
Svein Breast-rope
Thorkel flayer
Eyvind the shabby
Andun fetter-hound
olaf the peacock
Ketil flat nose
Thorstien cod-biter
Ragnar Shaggy britches
Hedin the Sorcerer
Iron-Grim
Thord horse-head
Gorm stultissimus 'very stupid'
Magnus Barelegs


I would not tie all the Ephitets to traits as the dispensing of nicknames/Epithets was pretty random.
like that of Edward II Carnavon 1284-1327 who got off lightly being nicknamed after the place of his birth when any of inept, hated or man-lover could have been bestowed instead.
or William the Bad of Sicilly 1120-66 who was quite a good king but hated and named 'the bad' by the Sicilian barons whose independence he curtailed